David's Vacation Club Rentals

[ShellyLynn3630]

Well I do plan on using this service in the future. Especially when they cut my free dining out. We might try to stay at the AKL on our next visit instead of trying CBR if we aren't getting any free food!!! I won't do Disney without a discount ever!

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Amen to that!

David is doing us (members) all a huge favor by stabilizing and actually holding up the price of our asset in this hard economy.

Renters gladly pay $13/point because it's a flippin bargain over what they would be paying direct through Disney. Have you checked how much our villas go for lately on Disney's website?!

My point being, whether they pay $10 or they pay $13, I think renters are so excited to be getting such an enormous discount of (in many cases) a few thousand dollars off Disney prices, that they're not sweating the extra few hundred bucks.

David is also exposing a whole new group of people, who have never met a "member" or even stumbled onto this board, to the plus side of renting. David advertises in other ways and in other areas and it draws people in. By selling to them the first time, they just might look on the boards the second time for that $11 or $12 bargain. Even better, is if this new group buys in through resale, thereby increasing the demand and eventually the value of our current contracts.

Another reason to thank David is because he takes a process that we take for granted because we know it so well and makes it easy for the average person to understand. For anyone who has never been exposed to DVC, trying to understand the concept alone, much less trying to figure out how the rental board works is daunting to say the least.

His website is the best I've ever seen in terms of how he actually explains what "renting points" is in a very easy to understand method.

Have any of you ever tried to explain to somebody who's never heard of DVC what "renting points" actually is?! It's practically impossible! Unless you have a well written speech with a teleprompter, you typically leave the person so confused, they think you're trying to sell them Amway or something.

David has taken our very valuable commodity that's difficult to explain and even more difficult to sell and made it as easy to understand to the average person as booking a normal trip.

By exposing new people to us and making it easier and less risky, this creates demand. Demand creates higher rental prices, and hopefully higher resale value.

If you've ever tried renting points, it is definitely no easy task. There is definitely tricks of the trade that make it much easier and unless you've done it enough times or just plain don't want to mess with it, David gives us a very easy alternative and pays an extremely respectable price.

Is he making money on it? Yes. But now ask yourself, if you were selling the points yourself, would you have asked $13/point or would you have asked closer to $10/point. The point is, if you are the type of person asking closer to $13 then David is doing you a great favor by giving you a benchmark. If you're the type of person who would ask $10 then by selling it for you, David is doing you a great favor in taking out the hassle and headache.

If you're the type who can't stand the thought of people renting points period, then ponder that through renting, it gives our points a yearly dollar value. I don't know about anyone else, but it gives me great peace of mind knowing that my membership has value. Value in every single point I own, whether I use them myself or through renting or resale.

And yes, I've definitely overkilled my point and this thread!

Well then I guess it would be even better if there 10 different Davids doing the same thing. After all why should David be the only one being allowed to provide this wonderful sevice? It not like he is a licensed travel broker. More competition would be a good thing wouldn't it? And then we can have ten different Davids calling MS all day to find out rental availability. It seems like an abuse of MS to me. And why is David allowed to call up MS and ask about availablity anyway? Whenever I call MS, they ask for my name and member number before giving me any information. So how does that work exactly?

 

[a742246]

David is a smart businessman. Good for him.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Calling to make a reservation is easy. To me, the hard part of renting points is finding the renter and then dealing with all the questions, changes, hand-holding, etc. IMO, it would be worth paying someone else to do that for me.

I suppose if the reservation isn't available, then the owner would just call him back and he figures out something else for the renter and for the owner. My guess is that it doesn't happen all that often.

Oh, I do see that benefit, Carol, but I guess since I've never rented out my points, I might be viewing the "hassles" in a different way than those who have done it before. I could see how putting him on as an associate to make the arrangements would be a big plus from the standpoint of the "hassle factor", but I think that value decreases with the new rule.

 

[dizfan]

Well then I guess it would be even better if there 10 different Davids doing the same thing. After all why should David be the only one being allowed to provide this wonderful sevice? It not like he is a licensed travel broker. More competition would be a good thing wouldn't it? And then we can have ten different Davids calling MS all day to find out rental availability. It seems like an abuse of MS to me. And why is David allowed to call up MS and ask about availablity anyway? Whenever I call MS, they ask for my name and member number before giving me any information. So how does that work exactly?

I agree that competition is a good thing. He's also a sponsor of disboards, so his business is the we know. There are other renters out there. David seems to be the one with the most marketing experience.

As for why David is allowed to call up MS, I suspect he's an owner. Any owner can call to find out availability for each resort at 7 months. In addition, they can call for home resort availability at 11 months. All David would have to do is own 25 points at each resort and he could call to find availability at them.

When online booking becomes available, I suspect it will make it even easier to find availability at resorts.

 

[dianeschlicht]

When online booking becomes available, I suspect it will make it even easier to find availability at resorts.

So if that happens, will David find a big decrease in his business?

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I agree that competition is a good thing. He's also a sponsor of disboards, so his business is the we know. There are other renters out there. David seems to be the one with the most marketing experience.

As for why David is allowed to call up MS, I suspect he's an owner. Any owner can call to find out availability for each resort at 7 months. In addition, they can call for home resort availability at 11 months. All David would have to do is own 25 points at each resort and he could call to find availability at them.

When online booking becomes available, I suspect it will make it even easier to find availability at resorts.

True. But DVC/MS knows what is going on here. They know about his "service" and they choose to allow his "service" to continue because it helps fill rooms. Like I said in this thread earlier on:

From page 13 of the 2009 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes...is expressly prohibited.

A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of Vacation points is clearly renting for commercial purposes.

David is then clearly a Member maintaining a web site offering a rental of Vacation points for commercial purposes... which is expressly prohibited. DVC has decided NOT to enforce their own rules. And that is their own choice. Yes, he is filling a need but so are ticket scalpers/brokers. And in some places they are legal and others they are not. Baseball teams have set up their own secondary market for ticket holders to re-sell their tix they want to re-sell. DVC could do the same thing if they decided it was worth their while to do so. If David was a paying a licensing fee or a fee of some sort to DVC for the right to be an authorized renter then, for me, that would be a different story.

 

[Sandisw]

True. But DVC/MS knows what is going on here. They know about his "service" and they choose to allow his "service" to continue because it helps fill rooms. Like I said in this thread earlier on:

From page 13 of the 2009 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes...is expressly prohibited.

A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of Vacation points is clearly renting for commercial purposes.

David is then clearly a Member maintaining a web site offering a rental of Vacation points for commercial purposes... which is expressly prohibited. DVC has decided NOT to enforce their own rules. And that is their own choice. Yes, he is filling a need but so are ticket scalpers/brokers. And in some places they are legal and others they are not. Baseball teams have set up their own secondary market for ticket holders to re-sell their tix they want to re-sell. DVC could do the same thing if they decided it was worth their while to do so. If David was a paying a licensing fee or a fee of some sort to DVC for the right to be an authorized renter then, for me, that would be a different story.

Isn't he really just the middle man? When the reservation is actually made, technically, it is the owner of the points who is doing the renting. And, from DVC's standpoint, that could be why they view this as not necessarily a breach of contract. If I use David to rent out my points, the reservation still stays on my account and I would be seen as the one providing the rental.

I would think it would be hard for Disney to enforce "commercial renting" on an individual for points that are not his.

 

[ShellyLynn3630]

I agree that competition is a good thing. He's also a sponsor of disboards, so his business is the we know. There are other renters out there. David seems to be the one with the most marketing experience.

As for why David is allowed to call up MS, I suspect he's an owner. Any owner can call to find out availability for each resort at 7 months. In addition, they can call for home resort availability at 11 months. All David would have to do is own 25 points at each resort and he could call to find availability at them.

]When online booking becomes available, I suspect it will make it even easier to find availability at resorts.[/QUOTE





I was wondering if online booking for DVC was ever going to come around.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Isn't he really just the middle man? When the reservation is actually made, technically, it is the owner of the points who is doing the renting. And, from DVC's standpoint, that could be why they view this as not necessarily a breach of contract. If I use David to rent out my points, the reservation still stays on my account and I would be seen as the one providing the rental.

I would think it would be hard for Disney to enforce "commercial renting" on an individual for points that are not his.

I don't know if he is just a middle man, And I don't know that being a middle man makes it okay. I'm not a lawyer. But I do know that he is collecting a fee for his service. And he is a maintaining a website that is being used for renting points and it is being used for commercial purposes. It seems that DVC put this rule in there for a reason. I don't know that it makes any difference whose points he is renting and I don't think that DVC would have any problem bringing legal pressure to bear on anyone if they choose to do so. But they choose not to.

But again, I'm not a lawyer so I don't have the answers. This obviously a very sticky issue to discuss here because he is a sponsor. But that shouldn't stifle the discussion and thus far it has not. There are some on these boards who normally chime in on these types of question and may know more but they haven't posted on this thread at all.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

True. But DVC/MS knows what is going on here. They know about his "service" and they choose to allow his "service" to continue because it helps fill rooms.

So his service helps owners, renters AND Disney. Win, win, win. Good for him. While I've never used his service, I'm very glad he's around. And continue to be baffled why you've so passionately opposed.

If David was a paying a licensing fee or a fee of some sort to DVC for the right to be an authorized renter then, for me, that would be a different story.

So now I'm really confused. You want him shut down (even though he provides a wonderful service to many people) not because you object to what he actually does, but just because he doesn't pay Disney to do it???

 

[aggiemullins]

Well then I guess it would be even better if there 10 different Davids doing the same thing. After all why should David be the only one being allowed to provide this wonderful sevice? It not like he is a licensed travel broker. More competition would be a good thing wouldn't it? And then we can have ten different Davids calling MS all day to find out rental availability. It seems like an abuse of MS to me. And why is David allowed to call up MS and ask about availablity anyway? Whenever I call MS, they ask for my name and member number before giving me any information. So how does that work exactly?

The only thing David is guilty of is taking the complex process of renting points between members and renters and making it easy to understand and do.

He's been able to turn it into a business and make money on it because there is an enormous unfilled need to take the complex nature out what we already do on this very board.

Over the years, I've talked many, many people into renting other people's points on the disboards to save them a lot of money. But on every one of them, I practically had to beg them to trust me that I knew what I was doing and talking about.

I didn't even dream of having them try to understand how the rental thread worked. One look at it and it would have scared them away by the shear complexity of it.

If I liked the person enough, I would call MS (on my membership) to simply see what was available. If they had what my friend was looking for, I would go to the rental thread and quickly try to find someone renting. It made it much easier for me to find a renter by telling them I had already checked availability and oh by the way, here is everything you need to confirm the reservation (names, ages, addresses, etc). Once it was confirmed I handed them off to my friend for payment and anything else.

In all honesty, I did half the legwork that the member would have had to do anyways, which is making the call to MS to check availability. Yes I was calling MS more then I myself would necessarily do. But in most cases, I didn't really add to MS call volume because I was making the call that the renter would have had to make anyways.

Believe me, I've done this enough times now that unless they're family or a VERY close friend, I'm going to charge them a dollar or two per point for doing it in the future.

While I don't know David or have ever done business with him, I'd be willing to bet this is somewhat how he got started and is similar to the way he does business.

I'm a little jealous of David because he's taken something I've thought about doing for years and actually done it and that is simply filling a niche in a market that was just ripe for somebody to make easier.

As for your question on why isn't there 10 David's, well honestly, why isn't there? He's not commercial renting because probably in the vast majority of cases he's not renting his own points. He's doing what I was doing for my friends and acting as the middle man. Anyone of us could do this. In fact, DVC probably doesn't even know who he is and would have a hard time figuring it out even if they cared.

I knew about David before he started advertising on the disboards because I stumbled across him on a Google search by accident. I honestly was a little surprised to later see him advertising on disboards not because of the possibility of it being controversial, but because I wouldn't want other DVC fanatics seeing how I was making great money doing what any of us could easily do as well!

Don't worry, David, my current job is extremely safe and I'm way too busy with a young family. But it's definitely been in the back of my mind to do one day if for some reason I ever found myself out of work all the sudden.

 

[dizfan]

David is then clearly a Member maintaining a web site offering a rental of Vacation points for commercial purposes... which is expressly prohibited.

I don't know if David is a member or not. I was just pointing out a way that someone could check on availability.

He could also have someone else who is s member call to check availability. Then, he would not be a member.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Sorry, I haven't been hanging at my computer to respond.

Justification:

From page 13 of the 2009 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes...is expressly prohibited.

A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of Vacation points is clearly renting for commercial purposes

There is more there but I'm not going to retype the whole thing. I'm not going to get into a debate about it but you wanted some justification for what I said so there you have it. DVC is not enforcing their own rules and that is their choice.

I emailed MS on this. According to the response, this isn't the same thing. They don't want someone buying a large 2000 point contract and renting those points out. This guy is brokering the deal, much like a stock broker, which isn't prohibited by the current rules.

Now not sure I see the difference, but I'd rather see a service like this than have them put an end to it altogether. Wish I had thought of it first.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

So his service helps owners, renters AND Disney. Win, win, win. Good for him. While I've never used his service, I'm very glad he's around. And continue to be baffled why you've so passionately opposed.

So now I'm really confused. You want him shut down (even though he provides a wonderful service to many people) not because you object to what he actually does, but just because he doesn't pay Disney to do it???

I've questioned why he is allowed to maintain a website for the sole purpose of renting out points when it seems to me to be against DVC's own rules. So seem to think that as long as he is not renting out his own points then it okay. I'm not sure if that is true or not. If I want to put up a website to rent out my 330 points apparently that is wrong. If David wants to put up a website to help you and others rent out hundreds of thousands of points, then that is fine. Now that to me is confusing.

DVC can do exactly what David is doing if they would like and cut him -the middleman- out of the picture. Or they could have him pay a percentage to them for the right to do it. But they have chosen to allow him to make money off of their product because he helps them keep the rooms filled. That is their choice. Meanwhile my dues (and yours) go towards funding MS which he uses to make a profit for himself.

 

[Chuck S]

I've questioned why he is allowed to maintain a website for the sole purpose of renting out points when it seems to me to be against DVC's own rules. So seem to think that as long as he is not renting out his own points then it okay. I'm not sure if that is true or not. If I want to put up a website to rent out my 330 points apparently that is wrong. If David wants to put up a website to help you and others rent out hundreds of thousands of points, then that is fine. Now that to me is confusing.

DVC can do exactly what David is doing if they would like and cut him -the middleman- out of the picture. Or they could have him pay a percentage to them for the right to do it. But they have chosen to allow him to make money off of their product because he helps them keep the rooms filled. That is their choice. Meanwhile my dues (and yours) go towards funding MS which he uses to make a profit for himself.

Why would Disney care if DVC rooms are filled? The resort personnel, upkeep and taxes are pre-paid whether the rooms are used or not. The only $ maker for Disney wouldbe park tickets, food and souvenirs...and likely the non-members renting points would still spend it at Disney, just either stay at a Disney cash resort, or offsite.

 

[Daddio]

But they have chosen to allow him to make money off of their product because he helps them keep the rooms filled. That is their choice. Meanwhile my dues (and yours) go towards funding MS which he uses to make a profit for himself.

Small correction. It is not 'their' product. It is 'your' product, managed my them. You bought and paid for 'your' product and upkeep it with the dues and fees that you pay.

It is no different than if you had a set unit and time each year. If you did not attend during your set time, your unit would remain empty. Should the people you bought the unit from prosper on your misfortune? With you receiving nothing? Would you feel obligated to contact them and tell them to go ahead and use your unit for their own windfall?

I am not looking to debate my service with you. It is what it is. I have helped bring 1000s of guests and 100s of members together for the mutual benefit of all.

I've only posted this because your passionate position puzzles me. I am not saying you are wrong for feeling the way you do, just curious as to what the motivation behind the emotions are.


David

--

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Why would Disney care if DVC rooms are filled? The resort personnel, upkeep and taxes are pre-paid whether the rooms are used or not. The only $ maker for Disney wouldbe park tickets, food and souvenirs...and likely the non-members renting points would still spend it at Disney, just either stay at a Disney cash resort, or offsite.

You answered your own question. Disney would care because then people would buy park tickets, food and souvenirs. But the most important reason that I can see is the one that you didn't mention: If the DVC rooms are filled then renters can see how big and beautiful the DVC rooms are and then they may want to buy DVC for themselves.

 

[ShellyLynn3630]

Why do people care if he does this? Wish you had thought of it first? I may or may not use this service in the next year, (all depends if Disney will give me that darn free food) but I am confused as to why people care?

 

[Chuck S]

You answered your own question. Disney would care because then people would buy park tickets, food and souvenirs. But the most important reason that I can see is the one that you didn't mention: If the DVC rooms are filled then renters can see how big and beautiful the DVC rooms are and then they may want to buy DVC for themselves.

But again, people were going to Disey way before they could rent DVC, those that could not afford to stay onsite, stayed (and continue to stay) offsite. Disney still sells them park tickets, meals and souvenirs, regardless of where they are staying. So that in itself is not a reason for them to care if they stay in a rented DVC unit or offsite. And certainly not a reason for your suggestion that that is the reason DVC has allowed David to operate.

In fact, in a way, his service is in competition with Disney, as any units not reserved by DVCerss are turned over to Disney for cash room profits at 60 days.

Also, it is likely only a small percentage of renters that take the step to buy into DVC, as the perceive renting to be cheaper than owning, plus they don't have the continuing obligation to pay dues.