RANT: I don't care if you want to sit next to your kids on the airplane

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Encountered something interesting on a flight last week. I have twins, 7. We don't pay for seat selection but are seated together because we are frequent fliers--I figure it's a courtesy the airline extends. Anyway, I got up to use the washroom with my daughter, leaving my son on his own. Dad was across the aisle and one row back. The flight attendant was very anxious and said to dh that son "was not allowed to be on his own." Dh had to relocate until I returned. If that is truly the regulation, there should be no reason for the airline to ever charge people for the "privilege" of sitting with their young children. It is not a privilege according to this flight attendant, but a regulation.

My understanding was always that under the age of two required complete parental supervision. With twins, we always had to take the kids with us when going to the washroom. Always had to maintain the one to one ratio.

I've always believed that charging parents to exercise a legal obligation to their children was wrong.

Yeah I have to wonder like another poster mentioned what if you had been alone? Were you expected to bring both your son and daughter into the restroom with you?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Yeah I have to wonder like another poster mentioned what if you had been alone? Were you expected to bring both your son and daughter into the restroom with you?

I have never had that happen to me when I have to use the restroom and I have been flying with my twins solo since they were five. Sounds like they were jusy being nitpicky.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Y

A seat preference might have always been an option, but 30 years ago nearly everyone bought tickets from travel agents, at airline ticket offices (which are extremely rare these days), or at airports. I know travel agents didn't typically have have assigned seating. I only started noticing preassigned seating when airlines started selling tickets directly on the internet.

I remember getting preassigned seats way before the internet. Probably not from a travel agent. But yes when purchasing tickets at the airport, an airline ticket office, and even over the phone with a credit card by calling the airline's 800 reservation number. Not 100% of the time, but a fairly large percentage of purchases. I don't remember if I could specifically choose Seat 6A, but I could ask for aisle or window and the agents would be able to confirm my request and recite the seat number.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Encountered something interesting on a flight last week. I have twins, 7. We don't pay for seat selection but are seated together because we are frequent fliers--I figure it's a courtesy the airline extends. Anyway, I got up to use the washroom with my daughter, leaving my son on his own. Dad was across the aisle and one row back. The flight attendant was very anxious and said to dh that son "was not allowed to be on his own." Dh had to relocate until I returned. If that is truly the regulation, there should be no reason for the airline to ever charge people for the "privilege" of sitting with their young children. It is not a privilege according to this flight attendant, but a regulation.

My understanding was always that under the age of two required complete parental supervision. With twins, we always had to take the kids with us when going to the washroom. Always had to maintain the one to one ratio.

I've always believed that charging parents to exercise a legal obligation to their children was wrong.

Wow, that's nuts! I flew alone with DD when she was 3 months old and the flight attendant approached me shortly after we boarded and said not to hesitate to get her if I needed to use the restroom. She said she would happily hold DD for me, or sit next to her in her car seat to keep an eye on her if I needed to go. I took her up on the offer too, since there's no way I could have held an infant while trying to use the restroom, especially in the confined spaces of an airplane lav, not to mention, it's rather gross. I wouldn't have expected or even asked the flight attendant to help and would have just waited to go until we landed, but since she offered, I gladly took her up on it. That was actually a great flight. DD smiled and cooed at everyone who looked at her and didn't cry once. The older couple across the aisle said they were thrilled they were seated near us as they were on their way to see their new grandchild.

 

[bcla]

Wow, that's nuts! I flew alone with DD when she was 3 months old and the flight attendant approached me shortly after we boarded and said not to hesitate to get her if I needed to use the restroom. She said she would happily hold DD for me, or sit next to her in her car seat to keep an eye on her if I needed to go. I took her up on the offer too, since there's no way I could have held an infant while trying to use the restroom, especially in the confined spaces of an airplane lav, not to mention, it's rather gross. I wouldn't have expected or even asked the flight attendant to help and would have just waited to go until we landed, but since she offered, I gladly took her up on it. That was actually a great flight. DD smiled and cooed at everyone who looked at her and didn't cry once. The older couple across the aisle said they were thrilled they were seated near us as they were on their way to see their new grandchild.

It sounds to me like that FA speaking to a previous poster was just feeding a line of BS. The Dept of Transportation doesn't really have anything at all - yet. The possible regulation requiring some means to seat a child with a guardian booked on the same flight might happen in two months. It's all airlines that determine the rules for unaccompanied minors. If there's no government rule that says a 5 year old can't fly alone, then I can't really see how there would be one that says a parent can't leave a five year old at the seat.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/Kids_Fly_Alone.pdf

There are no Department of Transportation regulations concerning travel by these “unaccompanied minors,” but the airlines have specific procedures to protect the well-being of youngsters flying by themselves.​

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

OOOOOO. A zombie thread

8 out of 10 zombies said they'd be glad to have you right next to your kid for dinner.
1 out of 10 zombies said the brains on planes are tastier than the brains on trains.
1 out of 10 asked our flight number. So we decided to scram and end the survey.

 

[quandrea]

Wow, that's nuts! I flew alone with DD when she was 3 months old and the flight attendant approached me shortly after we boarded and said not to hesitate to get her if I needed to use the restroom. She said she would happily hold DD for me, or sit next to her in her car seat to keep an eye on her if I needed to go. I took her up on the offer too, since there's no way I could have held an infant while trying to use the restroom, especially in the confined spaces of an airplane lav, not to mention, it's rather gross. I wouldn't have expected or even asked the flight attendant to help and would have just waited to go until we landed, but since she offered, I gladly took her up on it. That was actually a great flight. DD smiled and cooed at everyone who looked at her and didn't cry once. The older couple across the aisle said they were thrilled they were seated near us as they were on their way to see their new grandchild.

I got very good at going to the washroom one handed! Only elastic waisted pants on airplanes for me!

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I know I'm reaching to expect people to be responsible for their own kids. And to not book a flight if they can't pick seats next to their kids. To put their kids over a few $$$ in their pocket. Sad, isn't it?

If you learned that the family did book a flight and bought seat assignments, but got disrupted due to an airline cancellation and had to be rerouted, does your perspective on the situation change?

 

[robinb]

OOOOOO. A zombie thread

8 out of 10 zombies said they'd be glad to have you right next to your kid for dinner.
1 out of 10 zombies said the brains on planes are tastier than the brains on trains.
1 out of 10 asked our flight number. So we decided to scram and end the survey.

 

[sam_gordon]

If you learned that the family did book a flight and bought seat assignments, but got disrupted due to an airline cancellation and had to be rerouted, does your perspective on the situation change?

Mine does to a certain extent. However, the age of the kids comes into play. IMO, with RARE exception, a child age 5 or older should be able to sit by themselves (with parent within 1-2 rows). Many kids that age ride on a school bus without a parent right next to them.

 

[quandrea]

Mine does to a certain extent. However, the age of the kids comes into play. IMO, with RARE exception, a child age 5 or older should be able to sit by themselves (with parent within 1-2 rows). Many kids that age ride on a school bus without a parent right next to them.

I have a friend whose daughter is 13. She is terrified, not an exaggeration, to have her sit alone. I think she worries about sexual predators. My 13 yo is a more seasoned traveler than most adults and does fine on her own. I'd have no worries about my seven yos either.

 

[maxiesmom]

If you learned that the family did book a flight and bought seat assignments, but got disrupted due to an airline cancellation and had to be rerouted, does your perspective on the situation change?

Definitely. Been there done that.

But there is still such a thing as being able to roll with the punches. And hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst. And if you need to ask someone to trade seats with you, asking nicely and taking no for an answer if that is what you get.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I got very good at going to the washroom one handed! Only elastic waisted pants on airplanes for me!

In the 7 years I've been a parent, I've never been able to master that, regardless of the location of the restroom, so more power to you! I just rarely went to the restroom in public unless another adult was with me if I had an infant (or I had the car seat with me). Finally when my youngest was 6 months, I learned a brilliant piece of wisdom: stores don't care if you bring an empty cart with your non-walking baby in it into the restroom. Obviously not helpful on planes, but still can't believe it took 6 years to figure that one out...

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Mine does to a certain extent. However, the age of the kids comes into play. IMO, with RARE exception, a child age 5 or older should be able to sit by themselves (with parent within 1-2 rows). Many kids that age ride on a school bus without a parent right next to them.

A school bus does not lose cabin pressure and have oxygen masks deployed. And asking a parent to rely on a stranger in an emergency situation is asking a bit too much, in my opinion. Who knows how that stranger will react when such an emergency occurs. Then also ask that person to take care of someone else.

Yes, that type of emergency is rare, but from a little bit of googling it looks like a little more than once a week worldwide aircraft cabins lose pressure and oxygen masks are deployed;

Upon a quick search on the Aviation Herald, I got a bit over 60 occurrences of cabin loss pressure in 2014​

And another article says that you have about 18 seconds of lucidity to put your mask on:

According to Airbus, if a plane loses pressure at 40,000 feet, those on board have as little as 18 seconds of “useful consciousness” without supplemental oxygen. Once the euphoria is over, hypoxia renders one unconscious and can cause brain damage or death. So wear the mask.​

Flight crews are first and foremost safety officers. If the cabin depressurized and a child suffocated because 12C didn't want to move from a primo seat, they'd be pretty devastated. And probably fired. And likely sued. And possibly charged with criminal negligence.

Hence the real-world where flight crews make pretty big efforts to rearrange seating to accommodate all the customers who purchased tickets on the flight, as safely as possible.

 

[maxiesmom]

A school bus is much more likely to be in a crash than an airplane. But people don't think twice about sending kids off on them with only a driver, not anyone else on board. No one to assist at all, unlike on aircraft where the FAs are trained to direct and help passengers.

So I do have trouble with all of that making sense. You (in general) can't sit a few rows away from your child in a vehicle where there are people trained to help if something goes wrong, but have no problem sending your kids off in a bus without you and with only 1 adult, who is busy driving.

 

[fly girl]

Encountered something interesting on a flight last week. I have twins, 7. We don't pay for seat selection but are seated together because we are frequent fliers--I figure it's a courtesy the airline extends. Anyway, I got up to use the washroom with my daughter, leaving my son on his own. Dad was across the aisle and one row back. The flight attendant was very anxious and said to dh that son "was not allowed to be on his own." Dh had to relocate until I returned. If that is truly the regulation, there should be no reason for the airline to ever charge people for the "privilege" of sitting with their young children. It is not a privilege according to this flight attendant, but a regulation.

My understanding was always that under the age of two required complete parental supervision. With twins, we always had to take the kids with us when going to the washroom. Always had to maintain the one to one ratio.

I've always believed that charging parents to exercise a legal obligation to their children was wrong.

The FA was wrong. That is definitely not a regulation. For crying out loud you can have unaccompanied minors at age 5.

If the FA was anxious about another passenger around (they have a good sixth sense) she may have made that up on the fly. But, if she did that to be over protective, she MUST address you privately in the galley and explain why she made that up.

Personally, I wouldn't do either. I would've just chatted with your son (or a nearby passenger if he didn't want to talk) until you returned if I didn't feel comfortable leaving him alone.


As for under 2, there are no specific rules either. I've been asked a plethora of times to watch the kids while a parent went to the bathroom. I've sat in the parents seat, held the baby in the galley, or walked with a toddler down the aisle. Most FA's are moms, we don't mind helping -- but it helps to ask for help (not demand) and preferably not during our service.

 

[piccolopat]

You're reaching now. By July 15, 2017 the DOT should have a final plan to require that children 13 or younger be allowed adjacent seating at no extra cost (i.e. no premium window/aisle charge) with someone over 13. It's Public Law 114-190, which was HR 636 - passed July 15, 2016.

https://www.congress.gov/114/plaws/publ190/PLAW-114publ190.pdf

SEC. 2309. FAMILY SEATING.

(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Transportation shall review and, if appropriate, establish a policy directing all air carriers providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation to establish policies that enable a child, who is age 13 or under on the date an applicable flight is scheduled to occur, to be seated in a seat adjacent to the seat of an accompanying family member over the age of 13, to the maximum extent practicable and at no additional cost, except when assignment to an adjacent seat would require an upgrade to another cabin class or a seat with extra legroom or seat pitch for which additional payment is normally required.

(b) EFFECT ON AIRLINE BOARDING AND SEATING POLICIES.— When considering any new policy under this section, the Secretary shall consider the traditional seating and boarding policies of air carriers providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation and whether those policies generally allow families to sit together.

(c) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Notwithstanding the requirement in subsection (a), nothing in this section may be construed to allow the Secretary to impose a significant change in the overall seating or boarding policy of an air carrier providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation that has an open or flexible seating policy in place that generally allows adjacent family seating as described in subsection (a).​

Most airlines do in fact hold back some seats that can't be selected until either check-in time or only by an airline employee. I've been through that on a regional jet where there was no option for premium seats because it was all aisle or window. All we could select were scattered. When I got to the gate, one seat next to one of ours magically became available. This is all planned for in order to accommodate families with children or any passenger who might require an attendant. Heck - if it's a disabled passenger requiring an attendant, the attendant legally flies for free.

I don't think Maxiesmom was reaching. If children as young as 5 can fly as unaccompanied minors, there should be no rule requiring they be seated next to a family member on other flights. What that is saying is that little Johnnie, age 5, can fly across the country by himself, but if mom and dad are on the same plane, he can't be 5 feet away from them. That is absurd. If 13 and under have to be seated adjacent to a family member, than only those over the age of 13 should be allowed to fly by themselves.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

A school bus is much more likely to be in a crash than an airplane. But people don't think twice about sending kids off on them with only a driver, not anyone else on board. No one to assist at all, unlike on aircraft where the FAs are trained to direct and help passengers.

So I do have trouble with all of that making sense. You (in general) can't sit a few rows away from your child in a vehicle where there are people trained to help if something goes wrong, but have no problem sending your kids off in a bus without you and with only 1 adult, who is busy driving.

A bus doesn't encounter unexpected turbulence/zero gravity moments making movement through the aisle impossible. A bus can pull to the side of the road if there's mechanical trouble. Another bus can come along and pick-up children.

In an emergency situation on an airplane, there is no movement for everyone's safety. The only person a parent could rely upon to tend to their child is one of the people sitting next to that child.

I don't see relevant similarity in emergency situations.

 

[fly girl]

Yes, that type of emergency is rare, but from a little bit of googling it looks like a little more than once a week worldwide aircraft cabins lose pressure and oxygen masks are deployed;

Upon a quick search on the Aviation Herald, I got a bit over 60 occurrences of cabin loss pressure in 2014​

And another article says that you have about 18 seconds of lucidity to put your mask on:

According to Airbus, if a plane loses pressure at 40,000 feet, those on board have as little as 18 seconds of “useful consciousness” without supplemental oxygen. Once the euphoria is over, hypoxia renders one unconscious and can cause brain damage or death. So wear the mask.​

Ok, cabin decompressions are rare. Period.

I didn't get too far into that link because you have to know there are 2 types of decompressions -- slow and rapid.

Slow is a "non normal" event but nothing major. It's usually due to a door seal that is leaking. The masks would likely not deploy as you are at a safe altitude when it's discovered, or pilots can get to a safe altitude in plenty of time.

Rapid decompression is the one you're mentioning with Time Of Useful Consciousness. The higher altitude, the less time. Rapid decompressions are INCREDIBLY RARE, it caused by a large hole in the aircraft. Those are serious emergencies that you'd hear about in the news. When is the last time you heard about this on the news? Definitely not occurring once a week. The pilots will nose dive the plane to get to a safe altitude. People will be hurt in a rapid decompression, no doubt about it.

 

[maxiesmom]

A bus doesn't encounter unexpected turbulence/zero gravity moments making movement through the aisle impossible. A bus can pull to the side of the road if there's mechanical trouble. Another bus can come along and pick-up children.

In an emergency situation on an airplane, there is no movement for everyone's safety. The only person a parent could rely upon to tend to their child is one of the people sitting next to that child.

I don't see relevant similarity in emergency situations.

Bus crashes happen more often. In case of a crash there is no other adult anywhere, except the driver, who could help. Airplanes have people who are trained to help in case of emergency. And there are many other adults on board.

Also, in most cases, an adult is on board along with their child. Even if they are not right next to them. Not so on buses.