WARNING for NON-US cruisers debarking in a NON-US port!

[olafLover]

I had followed your previous post in regards to this issue and now I am following this post. My question is, has anybody figured out who may be at fault and are they fixing it for the future. If I were an overseas citizen and read this I would have serious second thoughts about coming to the US for a vacation.

When there was only one sailing DCL first e-mailed us

Disney Cruise Line has confirmed that the information presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) regarding the May 12, 2019, Disney Magic sailing from Miami, Florida, to Barcelona, Spain, was received correctly.

But then three weeks later they told us over the phone something went wrong while downloading the file, so who knows?
The thing is, it's only an issue if you're unaware and try to enter the US again with this on record. You'll get to the airport or border and they'll say you have an overstay on record and you won't have access to proof the data is incorrect. As long as people are aware they can collect the proof, send it in and keep it safe to take with them on their next trip to the US, they'll have some stress about it, but are fine. The people who are unaware are the ones with the real problem

 

[olafLover]

But they are not. Alaska cruises leave from Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA. They return to Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA. That is not a US port and is not controlled by US CBP.

But they are, all the other ports are in the US, so you need to have a visa for the US, if you miss the ship, you are left behind in the US

 

[Dug720]

You are pre-cleared by CBP whilst going through the cruise terminal in Vancouver, meaning you are technically admitted into the US before you step foot on the ship. Obviously something has gone awry for when the cruise has ended, which is why - like the EBTA - the passengers are showing as still being in the US.

That makes zero sense. Why would they be doing US customs in Canada? I could see if if they left Canada, returned to the US or the other way around. But they are not in the US.

 

[ivanp91]

But they are not. Alaska cruises leave from Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA. They return to Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA. That is not a US port and is not controlled by US CBP.

That's not correct. It is very much along the lines of US pre-clearance that several foreign airports have. A US CBP agent processes all the passengers going through the terminal. It's nothing to do with where the terminal is located, it's where the cruise is going.

I can confirm that my passport has a stamp that says "Department of Homeland Security / US Customs and Border Protection - ADMITTED - VCV", which is identical to stamps I have received at LAX, HOU, JFK, etc upon arrival into the US. VCV identifies the CBP processing point as being Vancouver.

 

[Dug720]

But they are, all the other ports are in the US, so you need to have a visa for the US, if you miss the ship, you are left behind in the US

Seems like Disney needs to go back to Seattle.

 

[olafLover]

Seems like Disney needs to go back to Seattle.

Not sure what good that would do, as the problem was also there in Miami

 

[Dug720]

Not sure what good that would do, as the problem was also there in Miami

If they are in and out of Seattle, you'd be coming in on your own and leaving on your own before and after the cruise.

 

[olafLover]

If they are in and out of Seattle, you'd be coming in on your own and leaving on your own before and after the cruise.

Ah yes, on that regard it would help, yes, but I think they'd need to add a stop in Canada then for it to be legal?

 

[ivanp91]

That makes zero sense. Why would they be doing US customs in Canada? I could see if if they left Canada, returned to the US or the other way around. But they are not in the US.

But they are in the US the moment the ship makes its first stop in Alaska.

Think of it this way - someone who is not allowed to enter the USA could easily get around that by flying to Vancouver, getting on a cruise to Alaska, and then it's as simple as taking a domestic flight down to the lower 48. This is to ensure that the strict entry requirements for the US are met. It doesn't matter if it's a cruise, a flight, closed loop or not. It's easier to have CBP facilities set up at the originating port, rather than burden many of the small Alaskan ports, since they would otherwise need to set up facilities at most of them depending upon the first stops for these cruises.

Here's some further reading on US pre-clearance that should hopefully clear things up better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_preclearance
"The United States operates a preclearance post at the port of Vancouver. This is particularly valuable to travelers using cruise liners that visit Alaska or that depart from Vancouver and have a first stop at U.S. cities situated along the west coast of North America."

 

[Dug720]

But they are in the US the moment the ship makes its first stop in Alaska.

Think of it this way - someone who is not allowed to enter the USA could easily get around that by flying to Vancouver, getting on a cruise to Alaska, and then it's as simple as taking a domestic flight down to the lower 48. This is to ensure that the strict entry requirements for the US are met. It doesn't matter if it's a cruise, a flight, closed loop or not. It's easier to have CBP facilities set up at the originating port, rather than burden many of the small Alaskan ports, since they would otherwise need to set up facilities at most of them depending upon the first stops for these cruises.

Here's some further reading on US pre-clearance that should hopefully clear things up better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_preclearance

Way too confusing for a beach morning. LOL. I'm out.

 

[otten]

That makes zero sense. Why would they be doing US customs in Canada? I could see if if they left Canada, returned to the US or the other way around. But they are not in the US.

US customs is done in Canada all the time actually. If you fly to the US out of most major Canadian airports you clear US customs at that Canadian airport.

Alaska cruise passengers embarking in Vancouver will be entering the US via cruise ship so they clear US customs at the port in Vancouver. Similarly they depart the US by returning to Vancouver on the same ship.

 

[T & R]

That makes zero sense. Why would they be doing US customs in Canada?

We went through U.S. Customs in Ireland. I think Aruba does it too. The U.S. has pre-clearance in a lot of foreign countries. We like it because when we fly back from Nassau we don't have to go through customs when we land in Miami. Miami customs is the worst.

 

[SirDuff]

Way too confusing for a beach morning. LOL. I'm out.

Probably for the best.

OP - interesting that two totally different ports have the same problem. Makes it seems like maybe it is a DCL problem (or, at least, seems to increase the possibility that it is). Would be interesting to know if any other cruise lines are having similar issues.

 

[kaseyC]

Way too confusing for a beach morning. LOL. I'm out.

It's really not too confusing or too difficult to understand. The US has Customs pre-clearance agreements with a number of countries. Canada is one of those and Vancouver is in Canada.

 

[olafLover]

Probably for the best.

OP - interesting that two totally different ports have the same problem. Makes it seems like maybe it is a DCL problem (or, at least, seems to increase the possibility that it is). Would be interesting to know if any other cruise lines are having similar issues.

I've posted on Cruise Critic (without stating it's DCL) to find out if there are other sailings affected. But in the end, I don't really care who did what wrong, as long as it's either fixed for everybody or people are made aware so they can collect the proof needed for future trips. Currently DCL is only treating the cases of the people who contacted them and it's up to us, the other cruisers, to make people aware there might be an issue and inform them how to check and which actions to take

 

[CarolynU]

That makes zero sense. Why would they be doing US customs in Canada? I could see if if they left Canada, returned to the US or the other way around. But they are not in the US.

I have travelled to the US from Canada many times by air and can confirm that I always clear US border control in Canada.

 

[SirDuff]

I have travelled to the US from Canada many times by air and can confirm that I always clear US border control in Canada.

Just to say that there are situations where you don't.

1) Not all airports or terminals within airports have CBP facilities, but still have flights to the US. Billy Bishop in Toronto (aka City Airport aka Island Airport) does not. Porter Airlines flies out of Billy Bishop to the US (New York, DC, Chicago, and a few more cities). If you fly with them, you clear immigration/customs in the US (which means that they cannot fly into DCA or LGA).

2) For some flights, US CBP facilities at the airport have already closed/not yet opened. One example I can think of is (or was) the red-eye on United from Vancouver to Chicago. Usually on that route, you'd pre-clear in Vancouver, but not on the red-eye (though this was a while ago and may have changed).

 

[CarolynU]

Just to say that there are situations where you don't.

1) Not all airports or terminals within airports have CBP facilities, but still have flights to the US. Billy Bishop in Toronto (aka City Airport aka Island Airport) does not. Porter Airlines flies out of Billy Bishop to the US (New York, DC, Chicago, and a few more cities). If you fly with them, you clear immigration/customs in the US (which means that they cannot fly into DCA or LGA).

2) For some flights, US CBP facilities at the airport have already closed/not yet opened. One example I can think of is (or was) the red-eye on United from Vancouver to Chicago. Usually on that route, you'd pre-clear in Vancouver, but not on the red-eye (though this was a while ago and may have changed).

I have only flown out of international airports and never on a red eye. My family have though fairly recently but I’m not sure that it will alter anything on this thread, so unless anyone is interested I’ll just accept what you say.

 

[SirDuff]

I have only flown out of international airports and never on a red eye. My family have though fairly recently but I’m not sure that it will alter anything on this thread, so unless anyone is interested I’ll just accept what you say.

No, it doesn't alter anything and wasn't specific to your post (yours was just the last one). I was just adding since clearly some people had no idea about CBP pre-clearance (it is also in other places like Bermuda and some Irish airports), so I thought some added information.

 

[SirDuff]

I've posted on Cruise Critic (without stating it's DCL) to find out if there are other sailings affected. But in the end, I don't really care who did what wrong, as long as it's either fixed for everybody or people are made aware so they can collect the proof needed for future trips. Currently DCL is only treating the cases of the people who contacted them and it's up to us, the other cruisers, to make people aware there might be an issue and inform them how to check and which actions to take

It's not so much about assigning blame but figuring out what happened - unless the problem can be traced, it is hard to ensure that it doesn't happen again (not for you to ensure it doesn't happen again, but for DCL and/or CBP to ensure that it doesn't happen again).