Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[heynowirv]

The difference here is that the owner (or owners agent) closed the resort not the renters decided / could not attend due to weather.

Read the whole post from Bill&Deb the resort was shut down.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Most travel insurance policies don’t cover pandemics even if you get the cancel for any reason cover

If that it the case then IMO it ultimately falls back on the renter as the owner have no control over a virus nor the weather.

I just looked at the travel insurance from "Worldwide Trip Protector Plus" and they include CFAR and they dont have any exclusions about pandemics or similar.

 

[Lewisc]

If that it the case then IMO it ultimately falls back on the renter as the owner have no control over a virus nor the weather.

I just looked at the travel insurance from "Worldwide Trip Protector Plus" and they include CFAR and they dont have any exclusions about pandemics or similar.

Cancel for Any reason policies would, by definition, let you cancel for reasons not covered by most policies. I haven't read anything which suggests a pandemic being an exception.

I buy a used car from you, private sale. I give you a non-refundable deposit. I show up the next day with the balance in cash. Overnight a storm resulted in a downed tree totaling your car. Is there any doubt I'm entitled to a refund? Of course I'm assuming you didn't transfer title to me.

As a practical matter. I don't think any of the DVC brokers have deep pockets, not owned by a large company. I doubt they have the money available to handle months of refunds. Dave's is in Canada. Disney World is in Florida. The owner and renter might be in different states, maybe different countries. I suspect brokers will be bankrupt before this ever gets sorted out. Good luck locating the owner and suing him. When the dust settles at least some of the renters will have rented from brokers which wind up out of business.

Assuming a broker has large, but not unlimited, resources a refund of the 30% owner hold back and most of the fees charged should be enough to give the renter half of his money back. I doubt most of the brokers have enough resources but it's a thought.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Cancel for Any reason policies would, by definition, let you cancel for reasons not covered by most policies. I haven't read anything which suggests a pandemic being an exception.

I buy a used car from you, private sale. I give you a non-refundable deposit. I show up the next day with the balance in cash. Overnight a storm resulted in a downed tree totaling your car. Is there any doubt I'm entitled to a refund? Of course I'm assuming you didn't transfer title to me.

I've read other places here on DIS that there should have been a court ruling in FL where a hurricane hit a resort and the renter wasn't able to checkin. The court ruled in favor of the owner as the hurricane was out of his control and furthermore the renter should have gotten a Travelers insurance to ensure coverage.

I have no reason to believe that this shouldn't be the case as we are speaking of a force Majeure situation. In that situation not the renter nor the owner is to blame and both get caught in the middle.

 

[rkstocke5609]

All of which is why the Rental market will take a huge hit. Would you gamble after this? If I was going to consider renting points after this it would probably have to be $6/point (no more than whatever maintenance fees are).

 

[TCRAIG]

This were we are at with our renters. Rental middle of May and my points expire on the 31st.

Same here - banked and borrowed points From a June contract for an April rental - I’ll do what I can...

 

[Marionnette]

All of which is why the Rental market will take a huge hit. Would you gamble after this? If I was going to consider renting points after this it would probably have to be $6/point (no more than whatever maintenance fees are).

No owner is going to rent thru a broker that charges $6/pt (or whatever maintenance fees are) because the broker is going to take a piece of that.

But I do agree that overall, the rental market is going to take a huge hit over this. Renters aren’t happy. Owners aren’t happy. Brokers are hearing it from both sides. They’re walking a fine line and the survival of their business depends on how they handle this.

 

[rkstocke5609]

No owner is going to rent thru a broker that charges $6/pt (or whatever maintenance fees are) because the broker is going to take a piece of that.

But I do agree that overall, the rental market is going to take a huge hit over this. Renters aren’t happy. Owners aren’t happy. Brokers are hearing it from both sides. They’re walking a fine line and the survival of their business depends on how they handle this.

People will rent their points for whatever the market is willing to pay. Or not at all. And I just expect the market to dictate a very low price.

 

[Marionnette]

People will rent their points for whatever the market is willing to pay. Or not at all. And I just expect the market to dictate a very low price.

Most people aren’t going to rent their points at a loss. I know that I would give them away to friends, family or neighbors before renting to a stranger at those prices.

 

[cvjw]

People will rent their points for whatever the market is willing to pay. Or not at all. And I just expect the market to dictate a very low price.

Then most owners just wont rent their points. No way I would go thru all the risk of renting my points to complete strangers for $6 a point. I would take longer trips in larger villas or give the points away to family and friends first. Or, sell the contracts. Too much risk in renting - as we are seeing right now.

 

[Sandisw]

I've read other places here on DIS that there should have been a court ruling in FL where a hurricane hit a resort and the renter wasn't able to checkin. The court ruled in favor of the owner as the hurricane was out of his control and furthermore the renter should have gotten a Travelers insurance to ensure coverage.

I have no reason to believe that this shouldn't be the case as we are speaking of a force Majeure situation. In that situation not the renter nor the owner is to blame and both get caught in the middle.

Do you think the fact that the owners contract says 30% is paid at check in plays a role in allowing the broker to keep that part?

Resort is closed, so no check in is happening. Granted, thst wasn’t the intent, but I could see it being used in a more technical definition.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

If the rental market dries up as a result of this, it would mean the potential for more points to be lost when people can't travel for whatever reason and have expiring points.

But the flip-side of that would potentially be improved availability of rooms. The rental market has resulted in a lot of rooms being booked that would otherwise have been available.

We'd all have increased risk of losing points if we can't personally use them before they expire, but increased availability might at least be a small silver lining.

 

[rkstocke5609]

I don’t dispute that most people wouldn’t rent their points if it goes that low. And maybe, the bottom is maintenance fee costs + broker fee. At that level it isn’t a “loss” . Who knows, I just think there’s trouble ahead for the rental market and it could likely effect resale values too.

 

[Marionnette]

I don’t dispute that most people wouldn’t rent their points if it goes that low. And maybe, the bottom is maintenance fee costs + broker fee. At that level it isn’t a “loss” . Who knows, I just think there’s trouble ahead for the rental market and it could likely effect resale values too.

Maintenance fees + broker fees is still a loss for the owner. I didn’t purchase those points with my dazzling smile. The contract itself cost money, not to mention the opportunity cost of spending the money on the contract instead of investing it. Owners weren’t making money when they used a broker. They were breaking even.

 

[rkstocke5609]

Maintenance fees + broker fees is still a loss for the owner. I didn’t purchase those points with my dazzling smile. The contract itself cost money, not to mention the opportunity cost of spending the money on the contract instead of investing it. Owners weren’t making money when they used a broker. They were breaking even.

Oh, I see. We look at it differently. I purchased my contract with the expectation that I would use it and that the cost was an expense on future vacations which I just considered a one time choice. So, when I think of break even I’m strictly thinking of the carrying costs of one year which is the maintenance fees. So, in your model I need to take my $16,800 and divide by 27 years to expiration of contract. So, rounded off that’s $623 per year. Now, $623 / 210 points is $2.97 / point. So, let’s say MF’s are $8, plus contract cost of $3, plus broker fee would equal my break even point . I look at my contract cost as 3 trips that I would have paid for that I bought DVC with instead and as such I consider it “spent”. That’s why my break even is MF’s + Broker fees.

I do see your perspective, just isn’t mine.

 

[poofyo101]

I doubt the rental market is going to change. People love disney. People want to save money.
What is going to change is the brokers market will change. Less brokers, and less people who trust brokers.
To me it has always been better and safer to find a good owner to rent from then a broker.

 

[Sandisw]

I doubt the rental market is going to change. People love disney. People want to save money.
What is going to change is the brokers market will change. Less brokers, and less people who trust brokers.
To me it has always been better and safer to find a good owner to rent from then a broker.

Are you saying though that with the resort closed, a renter should still be stuck?

Thats the piece that is going to impact the rental market, unless private owners are issuing refunds.

 

[poofyo101]

Are you saying though that with the resort closed, a renter should still be stuck?

Thats the piece that is going to impact the rental market, unless private owners are issuing refunds.

It just depends on the situation. I had a rental for late April and I advised them to move it. I told them going into it once this all started the point expiration date on it wasn't until early 2021 so I would help them move anytime in that window to any room they wanted. However I also told them the longer they waited to change the reservation the less likely they would have availability elsewhere. So we ultimately decided to move it to the fall. As we did not have a middleman its much easier to talk it through and come up with a few plans that work best.

I am not saying renters should get their money back with expiring points and putting it all on the owners either. Each situation is different but both parties should do the best to accommodate one another in a difficult time period.

Before being an owner I tried to use the brokers and just seemed like it was not as easy or as effective then just booking directly with the owner. I still feel the same today. The communication lag trying to talk through a middleman is very frustrating at times.

I know I would not be a happy owner however if I rented through davids expecting X amount of payment and them asking me to pay it back if points were expiring. To me that still has to fall onto the shoulders of the broker if the reservation cannot be moved/points will expire as that is the risk the broker made in running their business the way they do. just my opinion though.

 

[Sandisw]

It just depends on the situation. I had a rental for late April and I advised them to move it. I told them going into it once this all started the point expiration date on it wasn't until early 2021 so I would help them move anytime in that window to any room they wanted. However I also told them the longer they waited to change the reservation the less likely they would have availability elsewhere. So we ultimately decided to move it to the fall. As we did not have a middleman its much easier to talk it through and come up with a few plans that work best.

I am not saying renters should get their money back with expiring points and putting it all on the owners either. Each situation is different but both parties should do the best to accommodate one another in a difficult time period.

Before being an owner I tried to use the brokers and just seemed like it was not as easy or as effective then just booking directly with the owner. I still feel the same today. The communication lag trying to talk through a middleman is very frustrating at times.

I know I would not be a happy owner however if I rented through davids expecting X amount of payment and them asking me to pay it back if points were expiring. To me that still has to fall onto the shoulders of the broker if the reservation cannot be moved/points will expire as that is the risk the broker made in running their business the way they do. just my opinion though.

I definitely agree this will impact the brokers but I also believe that many renters would not be expected to understand that no refunds applies even if the resort closed. Yes, it’s no ones fault, but in Most other cases, if you buy something non refundable and it’s not delivered to you, a refund is processed.

That’s why I think it will impact rentals all around, including the price because I know I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone unless the get CFAR insurance. Once you do that, it may not be a huge saving over cash bookings...and Just not worth the risk.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

The DVC rental market will take a huge hit if the premium to stay at a deluxe resort falls within an acceptable range for a renter to book a risk free stay through Disney. And I foresee that happening for a hot minute. But the cruise lines will bounce back and so will DVC rentals (albeit with new contract wording) as people have very short memories.