Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Matty B13]

If you save 50% over the rack rate at a Disney Hotel by renting DVC points, it would only take one trip to recover the cost if you had booked a cash reservation, and lost your funds this time. So after your second rental you would be saving money again.

Also, most of the larger units, 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom units at DVC resorts are much cheaper to rent than paying cash for large suites at Disney Hotels. I think the bargain hunters will be out again after this crisis, but might add in Insurance that covers these things to the cost.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

If you save 50% over the rack rate at a Disney Hotel by renting DVC points, it would only take one trip to recover the cost if you had booked a cash reservation, and lost your funds this time. So after your second rental you would be saving money again.

Also, most of the larger units, 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom units at DVC resorts are much cheaper to rent than paying cash for large suites at Disney Hotels. I think the bargain hunters will be out again after this crisis, but might add in Insurance that covers these things to the cost.

I don’t know, I’m playing around on Disney’s site pricing out pretend trips (as one does when they can’t actually go lol) and found a 2 bedroom at Beach Club for about $600 more total for a 10 night stay than David’s. Approximately a $600 premium, or $60 a night, is more than worth it IMO for peace of mind, ease of change/cancellation, and actually being able to secure the room (not sitting on a wait list that may never come through). The point rental savings on a Poly studio for that same time frame (just picking what I see available) were larger, closer to $120 a night. I’m not comparing to rack rate, but to what one would actually pay with Disney.

Definitely depends on the time of year, the resort you’re considering, room type, etc. The savings aren’t necessarily always that large even at this point before prices potentially drop.

 

[MICKIMINI]

If you save 50% over the rack rate at a Disney Hotel by renting DVC points, it would only take one trip to recover the cost if you had booked a cash reservation, and lost your funds this time. So after your second rental you would be saving money again.

Also, most of the larger units, 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom units at DVC resorts are much cheaper to rent than paying cash for large suites at Disney Hotels. I think the bargain hunters will be out again after this crisis, but might add in Insurance that covers these things to the cost.

The studio renters may just go over to Moderates and have the option to cancel. If I were in that price range, that's what I'd do.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I have rented three times, each was for a studio. I think and hope that the studio availability will rise when rentals are fewer.

 

[Sandisw]

If you save 50% over the rack rate at a Disney Hotel by renting DVC points, it would only take one trip to recover the cost if you had booked a cash reservation, and lost your funds this time. So after your second rental you would be saving money again.

Also, most of the larger units, 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom units at DVC resorts are much cheaper to rent than paying cash for large suites at Disney Hotels. I think the bargain hunters will be out again after this crisis, but might add in Insurance that covers these things to the cost.

That is one way to look at it, but when you have renters right now losing $2 to $3k, because even resort closure, does not cancel the contract, it’s a pretty big risk to accept.

Most renters are not regular WDW visitors. I would be more often than not, they are people that go less often,

Since most rentals have not only non refund, but no changes, I am just not sure I see someone who just lost it all, going that route again,

And, with owners going above and beyond in this situation with even the changes, there are going to be more renters, who may be expecting that going forward, right or wrong, and shy away,

I know if I decide to rent in the future,..I’d build in a clause now as to what would happen in terms of how much of the rental would be refundable for resort closing.

IMO, if owners don’t offer renters some sort of safety net for that, it’s going to cut down on those wanting to risk.

 

[Beachmom0317]

The studio renters may just go over to Moderates and have the option to cancel. If I were in that price range, that's what I'd do.

That’s honestly what I’ll be doing sadly. We own a small contract at CCV and I’ve rented from other owners before when we’ve run out of points. Just can’t beat the cancellation policy with moderates and with this virus I just don’t even know if I wanna plan 11m in advance. Too many unknowns

 

[Sandisw]

That’s honestly what I’ll be doing sadly. We own a small contract at CCV and I’ve rented from other owners before when we’ve run out of points. Just can’t beat the cancellation policy with moderates and with this virus I just don’t even know if I wanna plan 11m in advance. Too many unknowns

I would venture to guess you won’t be alone. I just can’t believe too many that are not successful in getting money back will see it worth it, Although I am hearing there have been some successful cases with CC chargebacks, it won’t help a renter who didn’t pay that way.

Like I said, I see changes coming to a lot of contracts, especially the brokers

 

[Nennie]

That’s honestly what I’ll be doing sadly. We own a small contract at CCV and I’ve rented from other owners before when we’ve run out of points. Just can’t beat the cancellation policy with moderates and with this virus I just don’t even know if I wanna plan 11m in advance. Too many unknowns

If you need points in the future, instead of renting, I would do a transfer, so you are in complete control of the points. These are definitely uncertain times!

I rented out points (through Davids) for a June reservation, but fortunately they are June 2020 points, so if my renter needs to cancel, I can just reschedule for another date. I'm actually tempted to reach out to them (I have the email address) to give them reassurance that the points will still be good, but haven't done so b/c I'm concerned about giving them my personal info, etc. I guess it's just wait and see for now!

 

[MICKIMINI]

If you need points in the future, instead of renting, I would do a transfer, so you are in complete control of the points. These are definitely uncertain times!

I rented out points (through Davids) for a June reservation, but fortunately they are June 2020 points, so if my renter needs to cancel, I can just reschedule for another date. I'm actually tempted to reach out to them (I have the email address) to give them reassurance that the points will still be good, but haven't done so b/c I'm concerned about giving them my personal info, etc. I guess it's just wait and see for now!

I'm an owner and occasional renter through a broker and I'd be really cautious about reaching out to the renter at this point as you likely will be breaking your part of the contract. At this point, all parties are well aware of what is going on. As per your contract, let the broker do what you paid him to do. It's great that the reservations falls within a time that gives you flexibility. If all else fails, well, it's the wild west and you can make a decision at that point. Yes, transfers will be the safety net.

 

[Beachmom0317]

If you need points in the future, instead of renting, I would do a transfer, so you are in complete control of the points. These are definitely uncertain times!

I rented out points (through Davids) for a June reservation, but fortunately they are June 2020 points, so if my renter needs to cancel, I can just reschedule for another date. I'm actually tempted to reach out to them (I have the email address) to give them reassurance that the points will still be good, but haven't done so b/c I'm concerned about giving them my personal info, etc. I guess it's just wait and see for now!

True! I do love being able to be in control. The problem is you are still on the hook for the points you paid for. I guess I’d have to make sure the points I buy for transfer are in the beginning of their UY so if I needed to cancel I can do so before the banking deadline. Another problem for me is I read you can only book with transferred points on the phone at 9am with member services? I book studios at CCV our home resort and we usually need to log on right at 8am. So many factors come into play! May just need more points ;-)

 

[Miffy]

Since most rentals have not only non refund, but no changes, I am just not sure I see someone who just lost it all, going that route again,
. . .
IMO, if owners don’t offer renters some sort of safety net for that, it’s going to cut down on those wanting to risk.

Someone who just lost it all is never going to rent again, however, someone who isn't reading this thread, has never rented points before, and doesn't take the current situation into consideration before making their plans, is going to rent, assuming there're rentals to be had.

I say this because before this happened people were renting and they didn't care about the restrictions. Whenever I ran into a post where people were urging the OP to rent points instead of whatever their other presented options were, I always posted to let the OP know all the downsides of renting--that they'd have to pay in full upfront (in most cases) and that it was somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible that if something--anything--happened they'd be able to change or cancel the reservation, etc.

No one cared. I would then point out that I've had to change or cancel WDW reservations in the past for totally unforeseen reasons and that with renting points they could be screwed, but no one still cared. People saw the opportunity for a bargain and were convinced that no ordinary life event (like the weather or illness) would happen to them and plowed right ahead. For sure no one, including me, could've predicted the coronavirus situation.

The current situation has created a lot of difficulties for both owners and renters and I am sympathetic to both sides. That being said, renters were not unaware that they'd paid a nonrefundable amount for something that they themselves, even without the coronavirus, might not have been able to use.

Will anyone think this hard about this maybe two years from now? I doubt it. Not just because people's memories are short but because people want to do what they want to do and think X, Y, or Z is never going to happen to them. Or happen again. And they don't mind the risk because they don't feel like there is one. Kind of like all the people out on California beaches this past weekend.

 

[Sandisw]

Someone who just lost it all is never going to rent again, however, someone who isn't reading this thread, has never rented points before, and doesn't take the current situation into consideration before making their plans, is going to rent, assuming there're rentals to be had.

I say this because before this happened people were renting and they didn't care about the restrictions. Whenever I ran into a post where people were urging the OP to rent points instead of whatever their other presented options were, I always posted to let the OP know all the downsides of renting--that they'd have to pay in full upfront (in most cases) and that it was somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible that if something--anything--happened they'd be able to change or cancel the reservation, etc.

No one cared. I would then point out that I've had to change or cancel WDW reservations in the past for totally unforeseen reasons and that with renting points they could be screwed, but no one still cared. People saw the opportunity for a bargain and were convinced that no ordinary life event (like the weather or illness) would happen to them and plowed right ahead. For sure no one, including me, could've predicted the coronavirus situation.

The current situation has created a lot of difficulties for both owners and renters and I am sympathetic to both sides. That being said, renters were not unaware that they'd paid a nonrefundable amount for something that they themselves, even without the coronavirus, might not have been able to use.

Will anyone think this hard about this maybe two years from now? I doubt it. Not just because people's memories are short but because people want to do what they want to do and think X, Y, or Z is never going to happen to them. Or happen again. And they don't mind the risk because they don't feel like there is one. Kind of like all the people out on California beaches this past weekend.

Very true, but I am going to venture to guess is that rental agreements will change to say that even a resort closure would not require a refund,

And, I think the forums here will have more negative comments than before, With CC chargebacks happening, it may be difficult for brokers as well,

 

[Miffy]

Very true, but I am going to venture to guess is that rental agreements will change to say that even a resort closure would not require a refund,

And, I think the forums here will have more negative comments than before, With CC chargebacks happening, it may be difficult for brokers as well,

Yes, @Sandisw. Agreed. And also, while I'm here, I appreciate all your informative posts. Thank you!

 

[TCRAIG]

I have 3 outstanding rentals with David’s. One is for April with June points. I will refund the renter for points that Disney gives back to me. So, if they go back to restoring banked/borrowed - I’ll reschedule or refund the full 93 points (less the 30% David’s held back) - if I can’t get banked/borrowed points from DVC - (66 points), I’ll expect David’s to refund the 30% back to the renter and I’ll kick in enough to cover the current points I’ll get back and call it a day. My other 2 rentals are May with April points - so I will offer to reschedule or refund all of those points (less the 30% David’s still has if refund requested).

 

[RNicole1]

We are renters that have a May 23-30 reservation. This is our first time to rent, I am a teacher, and we have saved for 4 years to go on this trip with our kids. If Disney continues to stay closed during our trip, our trip insurance will not cover it. I’ve already looked into our policy and it does not cover a pandemic. I can only hope and pray that the owner is willing to work with us. If not, I will certainly never risk renting again and just book through Disney directly. I will also make it a point to let everyone I know not to rent as well. If it comes to it, I will follow through by trying to get a charge back with my credit card.

When booking, I fully accepted the no cancellations. However, this is in no fault of my own and I shouldn’t lose my hard earned money for nothing.

 

[Minniesgal]

All of which is why the Rental market will take a huge hit. Would you gamble after this? If I was going to consider renting points after this it would probably have to be $6/point (no more than whatever maintenance fees are).

People generally have short memories

 

[Krandor]

There's a lot of your argument that ignores that any contract (except for those which are plainly illegal, such as a contract to kill someone) between two adult parties is binding on both parties, no matter what happens.

When the owner made the reservation, and kept the reservation open for the member, he sold something of value. The value of those points could be reduced to zero if the points are expiring soon, or be reduced greatly if the points are expiring in 2020 (because there are few rooms available between September and January).

The renter has paid money for a reservation. That money was paid to a broker. The broker collects $4.50 per point for his commission and pays the owner $10.15 per point immediately. The broker then holds $3.35 per point until the day of check-in, when it is then released to the owner.

The key problem here is that the contracts do not have a Force Majeure clause, which would state what would happen in the event the contract becomes impossible to fulfill due to the actions of a third party.

One could claim that the renter should get their money back in full. The broker would say, "But I spent time and money to make this match up, so I should be paid!". The owner would say, "I rented those points when they had value, and now they have none, so I should be paid!". Because the broker is holding the $3.35 per point, and has already collected his $4.50 per point commission, and has a "no refund" contract with the renter, he believes he is in the driver's seat.

But, ultimately, the broker is the one responsible. It is a tenet of law that the person who drafts the contract is ultimately responsible for its content, even if it works against him because of his own incompetence in drafting it. By failing to have a Force Majeure event, even though it was completely foreseeable that one would be needed (Hurricanes and 9/11 shut down Disney in the past), David's has exposed themselves to liability on both sides: refunds for the renters, and full compensation for the owners. They rented reservations which, through no fault of the renter or owner could not be fulfilled. I'm sure David's knows this, so they are scrambling to re-book as many clients as they can, and trying to keep as much cash in the bank to cover the coming charge backs from people who cannot be accommodated with a re-book.

I see major changes coming to every broker's contract due to this event, and changes as to how these brokers operate.

Exactly. Very well said. A lot of comments in this thread are owner vs renter assuming the contract is between the owner and the renter. If going through a broker it isn't. The contracts are with the broker not each other.

 

[Angeliki19]

This thread has been great- I have been looking for something like this. I am a renter with an early May trip. As with others, have trip insurance but doesn't cover epidemic. I understood my contract to be fully non-refundable for any reason, so I am not expecting anything at this point. I was more just looking for information on how the point process works on the owner side to get a sense of likelihood of whether or not the trip can be rebooked. I know there are a lot of nuances with the points so it's complicated to say the least. I am patiently waiting to hear from David's and see what, if any, our options are!

In the meantime, I have rebooked our trip at CBR for October just to have *something* for this year. We have rented points or used family CM discounts to stay at DVC villas for the past 10 years, as the rack rate of those resorts is way out of our price range. However, this has made the moderates more attractive to me! Especially with the recent upgrades to CBR... I paid $290 a night, rack rate, through Disney for October and I have to say, I am pretty excited about it.

So as to whether I will rent again or not, it's hard to say. I still have dreams of staying at the Poly and for me, renting is probably going to be my best bet. Yes, I got burned this time, but if you total up all the money I saved over the years, I still feel like I came out ahead. On the other hand, there is more flexibility booking with Disney and if we enjoy CBR as much as I think we will, it will be hard to justify the risk again.

Thanks again for everyone's insightful posts! This is one of the better COVID-19 related discussions going on right now.

 

[tallguy001]

You paid for a timeshare stay. Changes a lot about it. PayPal protection applies on hotels. Not timeshares. Even your credit card terms vary.

The contract says no refunds.

What the contract says is irrelevant because it is void.

 

[disneypharm]

We are renters that have a May 23-30 reservation. This is our first time to rent, I am a teacher, and we have saved for 4 years to go on this trip with our kids. If Disney continues to stay closed during our trip, our trip insurance will not cover it. I’ve already looked into our policy and it does not cover a pandemic. I can only hope and pray that the owner is willing to work with us. If not, I will certainly never risk renting again and just book through Disney directly. I will also make it a point to let everyone I know not to rent as well. If it comes to it, I will follow through by trying to get a charge back with my credit card.

When booking, I fully accepted the no cancellations. However, this is in no fault of my own and I shouldn’t lose my hard earned money for nothing.

I agree with everything you mentioned above. We have been to WDW 5-6 times in the last 17 years but have always stayed in moderates and values. We always had trip insurance and never needed to file a claim. We have a split stay (2 contracts) for 10 days in early May that we rented 11 months ago. This is our first time renting and we are celebrating our 30th anniversary and my daughter's college graduation. I have already lost thousands of dollars because my other's daughter's study abroad was cut short and her trip insurance didn't cover the expenses. Now I am close to losing thousands more because of renting DVC. Even if they are willing to reschedule or refund our money, I will not put ourselves in this situation again and make sure my family and friends are also aware that renting can be extremely risky (added: unless contracts are different or trip insurances start covering these situations).