Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[rstamm]

Could someone explain to me why David’s doesn’t want me to rebook the family I originally booked and wants me to book a new family?

I’m not understanding this

 

[CraigInPA]

Could someone explain to me why David’s doesn’t want me to rebook the family I originally booked and wants me to book a new family?

I’m not understanding this

He has new cash coming from the new family versus no new cash (or a very small amount of cash) from your existing family. The only way he can afford to fund the voucher program is to book new business to bring in cash to pay for reservations and chargebacks, while at the same time hoping that the voucher holders don't all redeem those vouchers.

 

[CraigInPA]

I'm just curious if other owners have paid income taxes on the points they rented? I would consider refunding the money, however when I considered the maintenance fees already paid and income taxes already paid on this income, refunding would mean I would lose money in the end (points will expire in Nov and will likely be lost). Should the loss be on my part while the renters get a refund? If Davids were to take the 46% they still have from the reservation and refund it to the renters, then all 3 of us take a loss, but a much smaller one per party.

The renters are getting a voucher, not a refund. The voucher terms are really bad for the renters. One important aspect of the voucher program is that David's needs to have owners willing to rent to David's in order to fulfill vouchers. If owners, upset that David's hasn't paid many other owners, don't agree to rent to David's, the vouchers will be effectively worthless unless the renter wants to book a full rack rate hotel room.

You are not required to refund the 70% you received based upon the old contract. So, if you points will be worthless as a result of the report closure, don't even consider refunding David's the money you received.

 

[rstamm]

He has new cash coming from the new family versus no new cash (or a very small amount of cash) from your existing family. The only way he can afford to fund the voucher program is to book new business to bring in cash to pay for reservations and chargebacks, while at the same time hoping that the voucher holders don't all redeem those vouchers.

Thank you

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

He has new cash coming from the new family versus no new cash (or a very small amount of cash) from your existing family. The only way he can afford to fund the voucher program is to book new business to bring in cash to pay for reservations and chargebacks, while at the same time hoping that the voucher holders don't all redeem those vouchers.

If the new cash is paying for charge backs by renters whose reservations were cancelled, then he needs newer cash to pay for the reservations of the new customers. And when he uses that newer cash to pay for the slightly less new customers (and those redeeming vouchers), he needs more even newer cash...

 

[SherylLC]

I'm just curious if other owners have paid income taxes on the points they rented? I would consider refunding the money, however when I considered the maintenance fees already paid and income taxes already paid on this income, refunding would mean I would lose money in the end (points will expire in Nov and will likely be lost). Should the loss be on my part while the renters get a refund? If Davids were to take the 46% they still have from the reservation and refund it to the renters, then all 3 of us take a loss, but a much smaller one per party.

IMHO, if your points are lost, you should be paid in full by David's.

 

[rstamm]

So if I re rent my points isn’t there something negative in the new agreement now for owners
I think I read on here?

I want to make a good decision and not sure I should be renting my points anymore with David’s

 

[SherylLC]

Could someone explain to me why David’s doesn’t want me to rebook the family I originally booked and wants me to book a new family?

I’m not understanding this

In one of my reservations with him, a family is backing out of a September reservation and the points will expire at end of November, he wants to put a new family in the current reservation because he knows if I cancel the reservation it's very likely that we won't be able to book a new one before November ends and the points will be lost.

 

[Sharene0724]

So if I re rent my points isn’t there something negative in the new agreement now for owners
I think I read on here?

I want to make a good decision and not sure I should be renting my points anymore with David’s

The new contract is on their site but basically it places the risk on the owner versus David's if Disney cancels the reservation for something like the pandemic:

"In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has paid 70% of the funds collected for the reservation from Guest to DVC Owner pursuant to 4(f) of this Agreement, DVC Owner will return to Intermediary the full amount it has already received from Intermediary, as soon as is reasonably possible after the conditions(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to DVC Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to DVC Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

 

[Marionnette]

The new contract is on their site but basically it places the risk on the owner versus David's if Disney cancels the reservation for something like the pandemic:

"In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has paid 70% of the funds collected for the reservation from Guest to DVC Owner pursuant to 4(f) of this Agreement, DVC Owner will return to Intermediary the full amount it has already received from Intermediary, as soon as is reasonably possible after the conditions(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to DVC Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to DVC Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

And that is a huge sticking point going forward. Having your points tied up for months and possibly holding a reservation past your banking deadline, then having to refund to David’s (not the renter) due to a force majeure? This puts all of the risk on the owner. Why would anyone offer their points to be rented out under those conditions?

 

[Sharene0724]

And that is a huge sticking point going forward. Having your points tied up for months and possibly holding a reservation past your banking deadline, then having to refund to David’s (not the renter) due to a force majeure? This puts all of the risk on the owner. Why would anyone offer their points to be rented out under those conditions?

We did not re rent our points with them exactly because of that. I think someone a few posts ago had said that David's has basically become a match maker for owners and renters and nothing else with this new contract. Seems like a lot to pay for just match making. Now to figure out how to squeeze in another trip next year or maybe look to doing a private rental on the boards now that we have the points back.

 

[Donna M]

So if I re rent my points isn’t there something negative in the new agreement now for owners
I think I read on here?

I want to make a good decision and not sure I should be renting my points anymore with David’s

The following is the part that bothers me as an owner and renting:

15. Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner and, after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, for the same dates cannot be secured by the Owner, the parties agree that Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is _______________ US Dollars which refund shall be the responsibility of Owner. In the event that the suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, are available for a sum greater than the original amount paid by the Renter, the difference in value shall be the responsibility of the Owner.

The above is found only in the renter's agreement. The owner's agreement calls for refunding the renter's costs, but it is not written that the owner will be responsible for additional payment if David needs to find more expensive accommodations. There's no way I would rent with such an unknown possibility.

I don't understand how David's can expect owners to pay the difference when it is not in the owner's contract. And unfortunately, the renter is lead to believe that the owner will pay.

 

[disneypharm]

I just found out that one chargeback is successful. I provided a long letter highlighting the differences between the first and second (voucher) contract. CC company never asked for anything else. I filed a dispute on April 21st and was refunded a credit to my account today. Now one more to go ;-)

 

[Sandisw]

So if I re rent my points isn’t there something negative in the new agreement now for owners
I think I read on here?

I want to make a good decision and not sure I should be renting my points anymore with David’s

If something happens and the resort closes, or is damaged, etc., you have to refund the 70% paid, regardless of what status your points will be in.

For me, that is a big one. I can rent on my own and make my own terms so both myself and renter share the loss.

This puts it on the shoulder of the owner only. He keeps commission and renter gets voucher.

 

[dragonflymom]

They didnt purchase the vacation from the owner, they purchased it from Davids. It is up to David to solve the problem in that case. His options are to pay the money owed to the owner as agreed, take the owner to court or find another solution for the renter.

He wants to be paid for being the middle man, this is what happens when you try to pass the buck like he has been.

I understand all the grievances that owners have with David's. I came to this thread because I had my first (and only) rental with David's during the closure period and believe it or not, I had read every single post in this 190+ page thread! I learned a lot from everyone and took the advice of reaching out to my renters and offered to reschedule. They didn't know when they could go to Disney again since the trip was a 3-family reunion to celebrate an 80th birthday. They said they would take the voucher and I pointed out the risks of the voucher program to them based on what I had learned here and suggested they could try the credit card chargeback route. In the end they felt the voucher program was fair given the pandemic plus they said they had understood the risks of a non-refundable rental. The conversation with my renters along with some of the advice here made me decide to return my 70% to David's, take my points back and try to re-rent myself since I don't like the new contract terms. I also like the advice to go with your gut what is the right thing to do to be able to sleep at night. And it will be different for everyone so there shouldn't be any judgment passed on what owners ultimately decide to do as each circumstance is different.

What I do want to highlight is that whatever animosity an owner may have towards David's please do not escalate by dragging in other innocent renters and making a bad situation worse. If you think about it, the renters are in the worst situation in this mess since they are out 100% of their money unless they are successful with a chargeback. For owners, everyone's math will be different--some are happy if they can just recoup annual maintenance fees while others want the full contracted $14.50 from David's. There are many arguments outlined in this thread that an owner can pick and choose to support one's ultimate decision.

To further support my plea for owners not to escalate by hurting more renters, imagine yourself as one of the co-workers in this analogous situation: let's say I had a beef with my boss, maybe a long-deserved raise or bonus that they had promised me. I worked my butt off and when the time came, not only did they not give me the raise because the company was in financial trouble due to the pandemic but to add insult to injury, they wanted everyone to take a 10% pay cut including me. I am furious so to force the issue, I refused to co-operate with my 7 other co-workers and would not provide them with what they need to do their jobs. It is now up to the boss to solve everyone's problems because the boss/company shouldn't have passed the buck.

Finally, there are times when it makes sense to extend good will, flexbility or benefit of the doubt despite what is legally enforceable on a piece of paper. I believe CV-19 is one of those times. Just ask yourself whether you have ever been on the receiving end of an act of kindness, someone cutting you some slack despite what you're required to do or not do. I'm sure you would have been grateful in those situations and if you can be in a position to pay it forward, wonderful! If not, please consider not pouring gasoline on a fire.

 

[rstamm]

Thank you for the responses!!

 

[Madame]

In one of my reservations with him, a family is backing out of a September reservation and the points will expire at end of November, he wants to put a new family in the current reservation because he knows if I cancel the reservation it's very likely that we won't be able to book a new one before November ends and the points will be lost.

Not directed at you, but I don’t understand why he is allowing renters to back out during non-closure periods. This is not smart; owners use a broker to avoid the “I can’t go for X reason.”

 

[starry_solo]

Not directed at you, but I don’t understand why he is allowing renters to back out during non-closure periods. This is not smart; owners use a broker to avoid the “I can’t go for X reason.”

Maybe he gets money from the new family and the old family gets a voucher?

 

[banzai75]

Maybe he gets money from the new family and the old family gets a voucher?

He is going to ask the owner to then re rent the points for new renters or for people using vouchers. Then he offers voucher to the person cancelling and can just keep pushing reservations out further and further.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Not directed at you, but I don’t understand why he is allowing renters to back out during non-closure periods. This is not smart; owners use a broker to avoid the “I can’t go for X reason.”

Personally I think it’s an attempt to do the “right thing” now that the end of the closure is known, but I think the attempt misses the mark and just further aggravates those of us who are unimpressed with how everything has been handled, including but not limited to the way they don’t seem to care to stick to their contracts at their discretion only.