No exemption to mask policy.

[Disney Frenhines]

I doubt you will come back to this thread and reply but I wanted to add a few more reports for you to consider regarding children and them not being "significant vectors for the disease"

Universities scramble to respond to outbreak

As schools open, coronavirus outbreaks follow

More than 97,000 children in the US test positive for Covid-19 in the last two weeks of July

In England, schools see dozens of coronavirus outbreaks as they open

925 students, staff quarantined after coronavirus outbreak in Georgia

But yeah, there is obviously out of control hysteria over this virus and children are not a significant vector for this virus.

I'm balll

I doubt you will come back to this thread and reply but I wanted to add a few more reports for you to consider regarding children and them not being "significant vectors for the disease"

Universities scramble to respond to outbreak

Are you watching the VanAqua live cams? I LOVE watching them, they are so much fun and the jellyfish ones are super relaxing!

Yes! And Tiny Kittens. Webcams like these can be so relaxing.

 

[Aladora]

Yes! And Tiny Kittens. Webcams like these can be so relaxing.

Tiny kittens live cams? Please link!

 

[SteveMouse]

Let's change a word and see if you still agree: "There is no general discrimination against individuals with disabilities if everyone, regardless of whether they are disabled or not, is required to wear shoes." No shoes, no service, right? So the double amputee without feet can be denied entry because they can't wear shoes and wouldn't be discriminated against, because everyone has to for "safety". Right?

If the double amputee’s lack of shoes was causing a threat to anyone else’s health, absolutely.

And before you say I don’t live with it, you do not live in my shoes. I, quite literally, cannot sit down in a normal chair. Both hips are permanently fuzed and cannot bend. Every time I transfer, it hurts. My arms are fused at my shoulders. My jaw is frozen. Any injury can result in a joint being permanently fuzed. There’s a lot that I want to do, but there is no accommodation available. I deal with it.

 

[EveDallas]

You are correct in that. But how do you prove an unmasked person poses a threat to others when they are not sick and not presenting symptoms? Force them to test for covid? Can a private company do that legally? I don’t believe so. And if you cannot explicitly prove that they are a danger to others than the public safety exception does not apply. So, again, Disney may be in violation of the ADA.

Under Florida law, Disney is in violation. There is no public safety exemption in it. I linked it in another post.

Nor do I trust the tests. Too many oddities reported.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/fault...-as-goat-and-fruit-test-positive-in-tanzania/

Florida law is clear and does not provide any exemption.



The CDC also recommends alternatives or alterations for those who cannot wear a mask. For those with sensory disabilities they recommend speaking with your doctor. While the story does not mention it, it is entirely possible the families physician expressly forbid the child from wearing a mask. I personally would not be surprised that was the case.

In order to avail themselves of the public safety exception Disney would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the maskless person poses a danger. The only way to prove a person who does not present symptoms does not have COVID is an antibody test. This would be illegal for Disney to mandate. The test will also show false positives due to related antibodies for other corona viruses like the common cold.

I never make a claim I can’t back up and I always do my research.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...e-cover-guidance.html#feasibility-adaptations
https://thehill.com/changing-americ...false-positive-and-false-negative-coronavirus

So you're "done research" and now think you know more than Disney's vast team of lawyers?? Ok then

 

[marikujawa]

So you're "done research" and now think you know more than Disney's vast team of lawyers?? Ok then

Using the well-established “beyond a shadow of a doubt” standard no less.

 

[Disney Frenhines]

Mask, ventilator or casket, what would you prefer?

Tiny kittens live cams? Please link!

I hope this works. Be aware that these cats will probably give birth live on the stream so not for the squeamish.

I think this link might work for one of the funniest of their videos. I was watching this live feed while I was having breakfast, I didn't think it would go as far as it did. Disney should make a movie of this

 

[DisneyOma]

Let's change a word and see if you still agree: "There is no general discrimination against individuals with disabilities if everyone, regardless of whether they are disabled or not, is required to wear shoes." No shoes, no service, right? So the double amputee without feet can be denied entry because they can't wear shoes and wouldn't be discriminated against, because everyone has to for "safety". Right?

Um, your analogy only works if the person not wearing a mask has no nose or mouth.

 

[daisy2013]

Um, your analogy only works if the person not wearing a mask has no nose or mouth.

or lungs...

 

[Walt4ever]

Um, your analogy only works if the person not wearing a mask has no nose or mouth

Wrong. The reason the person cannot wear a mask, or shoes, doesn't matter. If they can't, they can't. Asking them to explain, or acting like they "aren't disabled enough" just compounds the problem. And I know a lot of people in the "it's not that hard, just wear it" camp do not understand all the legitimate reasons why some people can't. Some reasons have to do with oxygen restriction, but some have to do with other types of disabilities. A dear friend of mine was raped as a young woman. Her assailant covered her mouth to keep her from screaming for help. She CANNOT wear a mask or have anything over her mouth because of PTSD, even tho the attack happened over 30 years ago. Someone asked "what if they got really sick and had to have oxygen". My friend would have to be sedated. While the current state mandate allows her exception, the stores that are the most anal about it force her to remember the incident each time she walks in because she has to tell them she has a medical exception. She is now fighting depression because of the "it's not that hard" and "just don't go, stay home" crowd.

But for the record, Disney's current policy requires a disabled person that breaths via a tracheostomy tube in their throat to still wear a mask over their mouth and nose. If the breathing without a mask is the "direct threat", then that disabled person should be required to wear a mask over their tube, correct? But they aren't required to. They are only required to have one over the nose and mouth they aren't using. THAT is Disney's policy because they make zero exceptions and aren't even willing to have a discussion about it. Think about it. Before you say that person shouldn't be going because they might get sick, that is the person's choice to go knowing the risks. Sure the tracheostomy tube is a rare example, but it illustrates the point that the law requires a conversation to see if a reasonable accommodation can be made. Disney is refusing to have the conversation.

If the double amputee’s lack of shoes was causing a threat to anyone else’s health, absolutely.

That is the crux of the matter. Can it be proven that a disabled person who cannot wear a mask is a threat when the presumed active cases (those that have tested positive and those who may be asymptomatic) are around 1% of the general population? Generalizations don't cut it and are also discriminatory. Something repeated a gazillion times online is not proof, and even then, it is said that masks "may" help reduce community spread. If you believe there is a direct threat, are there any other means that could mitigate that threat? Shouldn't there at least be the opportunity to discuss? My friend with PTSD takes extra precautions to maintain distancing of over 6 feet. She can wear a face shield for a limited time (it freaks her out a bit too, but for 15-20 minutes she can deal with it).

In the end, I have no doubt that courts, and most likely appeal courts, will have the chance to weigh in on things.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

or lungs...

Exactly. Someone had been asking a week or so ago about mask requirements for her kids who have trach tubes and literally do not breathe through their noses or mouths. The consensus was that, even though it's silly, Disney is going to require them to have masks on their faces, but that as a best practice she should probably use some kind of cloth covering over the trach as well as long as that's safe to do. Because putting Disney in a position to have to be certain that no air/droplets are coming through the children's noses or mouths - and making sure that everyone who sees the kids knows that and doesn't assume that they can get away with not wearing masks - is unreasonable.

 

[crisi]

It would be important to know who is behind the website. This reminds me of the mask exemption cards that were being provided by the “freedom to breathe agency”, which is not a government agency. Story below where a woman claiming to be from this agency advised a grocery store employee about how they were violating the law. The store is still requiring masks of customers and the DOJ issued a warning about the face mask exemption cards they are selling as they do not carry the force of law.

So I was just an election judge for the primary here in Minnesota. Minnesota has an indoor mask mandate. Voting is very important, but if you cannot or choose not to wear a mask, we can't let you vote while other voters are in the polling place - we can do curbside - or we can clear the polling place of all voters and any judges who aren't comfortable. I had someone pull one of those cards on me....and we called the cops when she wouldn't back down (after consulting with our county elections clerk). And the cops explained to her that they would be happy to take her down to the station if she continued to cause a scene, but they had to enforce the law as it was being interpreted by the Attorney General (unless our Supreme Court stepped in) and follow the instructions given by the Secretary of State. Not some rando web site. She could vote wearing a mask, she could vote curbside, she could wait until we got the spot cleared out.

If you believe there is a violation of the ADA or some other issue of rights, that's a civil matter. You can sue, it will take a while to work its way through the courts, and you still aren't shopping or voting or getting into WDW that day. The CMs do not have the power to do anything but call security. Security is going to do nothing but escort you from the property - or call the police if you don't leave. The police aren't going to do anything but escort you from the property, or put you in jail for trespassing or disturbing the peace.

 

[Disney Frenhines]

Did I just read someone use a double amputee and a lack of shoes to attempt to make a point about not wearing a mask? What on earth is wrong with you?
Look, at the end of the day the ADA is for the rights of the disabled, however, being disabled does not give you the right to compromise other people's health. The ADA appears to be consistently abused by a small minority for personal gain and shame on them, especially parents of disabled youngsters who are actually more concerned about themselves than their kids.

Look, I was due to go to WDW in three weeks and had to cancel because of the travel ban. So should I get on a flight to the US and be turned back at OIA and then threaten to sue Donald Trump because I can't have my vacation? I knew I would be unlikely to be able to go because of the travel ban, so I looked into my options and decided to cancel as I couldn't reschedule. Perhaps a little less entitlement and a little more research into options for a holidays at a later date when it would be safe for his child would have been a better choice for this man, but, that is too much like doing the right thing.

 

[AKLover]

Since I don’t think we can post screenshots here I won’t but this man has a direct quote from himself on one of his videos about his daughter not wearing a mask and why they would take her to Disney in the first place saying...

“I mean if she gets sick for a few days it is what it is“

I am in shock. This man y’all....I can’t. He just wants money.

If you would like to see the actual screenshot of him saying this or just a link to the video dm me and I’ll send it to you.

 

[Boopuff]

It almost seems as if the whole thing was staged. The dad was ready to go with phone on record the whole time. Kudos to the CM who handled him like a champ. It's not an ADA issue. The girl is allowed access (she's being denied because she won't wear a mask) Another thought... if they flew how'd she get on the plane without a mask? almost all airlines require you mask up to board!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rights-and-face-mask-requirements/5391830002/

 

[marikujawa]

The ADA requires only reasonable accommodation of a person's disability. It doesn't require a business to allow guests to endanger themselves or others. I don't believe there are disability-related exceptions for safety requirements like seat belts or life jackets.

If there is sufficient support for the conclusion by health experts that face masks potentially reduce the spread of the virus, I doubt anything in the ADA would force Disney to make exceptions. Most disability-related accommodations have little or no impact on a business or its other customers. The current situation is different. Disney may have determined that exceptions would result in too many people in the parks not wearing masks, which could substantially reduce the effectiveness of its mask requirement.

 

[AKLover]

It almost seems as if the whole thing was staged. The dad was ready to go with phone on record the whole time. Kudos to the CM who handled him like a champ. It's not an ADA issue. The girl is allowed access (she's being denied because she won't wear a mask) Another thought... if they flew how'd she get on the plane without a mask? almost all airlines require you mask up to board!

It does seem staged. I think this man planned all of this looking for a payday. Especially since the videos he took down showed her in the background wearing a mask. He said in the one video that is left up that he took them down bc he didn’t want people screenshotting photos of his daighter. I’m sure someone out there downloaded the videos so it’s just a matter of finding them.

In terms of the airline, there are a few left letting people get by with things. I don’t know where the are from so maybe he drove, I don’t know that he ever states anywhere that they flew. He did state in the videos he has now taken down that they were there for a week. I just can’t imagine staying a week if you are that mad.

 

[Boopuff]

I believe I read somewhere that he'd planned the trip for 2 years (and in all that time he never, ever heard, saw, the mask policy???) I also think I read the trip was pre-paid and they spent the whole time at the pool. I'm pretty sure he was hoping to cash in on this and have Disney pay...

 

[AKLover]

I believe I read somewhere that he'd planned the trip for 2 years (and in all that time he never, ever heard, saw, the mask policy???) I also think I read the trip was pre-paid and they spent the whole time at the pool. I'm pretty sure he was hoping to cash in on this and have Disney pay...

I missed all of that. He had videos up from Pop Century and from Disney Springs. He also had other kids in a couple of the videos so I’m not sure if they are also his or not, so my guess was they did actually go into the parks. Especially since the girl was seen wearing a mask in some of the videos.

But yes I agree...I think he’s looking for a payday.

I have an upcoming Disney trip and Disney has emailed me no less than 12 times since June reminding me of the new mask policies including one survey that also had me read all the new policies and either click “agree to still come” along with 10 other pages of questions. He was well aware.

 

[ScubaCat]

Using the well-established “beyond a shadow of a doubt” standard no less.

"A lot of people are saying it"

 

[marikujawa]

"A lot of people are saying it"

It must come from TV shows. The State doesn't even have to prove a murderer guilty beyond a "shadow" of a doubt.

That’s not a burden of proof that would ever apply under the ADA.