Covid And The Rest of Us

[Karin1984]

We only have a small lift in the restrictions to have 3 people instead of 2 people over for Christmas. It's a mess here now.

We finally got a date to start vaccinating, but it's a week after most EU countries, so the opposition is complaining that the NL is behind and slow. And they may have a point as we know for a long time already the vaccin will be coming. How come we haven't tested our IT yet?

The last 10 years a lot of post offices closed as there is no market for a store that is just a post office. So a lot of bookstores are now partially post offices. With the restriction of no non-essential purchases, there are too many discussions, arguments and frustrations when someone drops off a package at a post office in a bookstore, can do that, pay the postage, but cannot pay for a book, a postcard or something else. Therefore over 400 of these post offices will close on Monday. It's too expensive to open a store (gas, electricity etc.) for just post.
Consequence: our postal system was already suffering with the increase of packages needed to be delivered due to the holidays. It gets worse with the lockdown, and people shopping online.

Belgium is still campaigning against Dutch people jumping over the border to go shop in Belgium. (While I am typing this, Belgium announced that they want a negative covid test for anyone who enters the country).

For those interested, the first group to vaccinated here are the caretakers for people working in nursing homes and other similar facilities. I hope this brings some ease for the families to visit their relatives like before.
Today we received the news that in a nursing home in Rotterdam with about 145 people, over 100 people got infected (incl. 32 caretakers), 18 people have died.

We are not getting any reward system for those who get vaccinated.

During the first wave about 9000 people more passed away in the Netherlands than on average. During the second wave we are now at 5300 people more than on average.
Over 1500 people have died at home instead of the IC during the first wave. Mainly elderly people were asked by their GP if they wanted to go to the IC, or stay at home. If this hadn't happened, we probably would have had a bigger problem at the IC.

Research has also shown that feelings of angst, stress, anxiety are on the rise again, less confidence in how the government is handling things.
But % of people who say they will get vaccinated rose from 60% in November to 69% now. Those who said they would definitely not get it, dropped from 23% to 18% So, that's some good news

 

[BadPinkTink]

We finally got a date to start vaccinating, but it's a week after most EU countries, so the opposition is complaining that the NL is behind and slow. And they may have a point as we know for a long time already the vaccin will be coming. How come we haven't tested our IT yet?

I saw that and wondered why. We are still hoping to start the vaccinations before the end of December. My local hospital within walking distance will be one of the vaccination centres, so we can easily get there when we get called. What about you, do you know the location of the vaccination centres yet?

 

[Karin1984]

I saw that and wondered why. We are still hoping to start the vaccinations before the end of December. My local hospital within walking distance will be one of the vaccination centres, so we can easily get there when we get called. What about you, do you know the location of the vaccination centres yet?

Yes, that's known. We have a national; organization that deals with the regular vaccinations here, but also the flu shot each year. There is a system for this, so the infrastructure is taken care off. Apparently it's the IT and the tracking.
I am not sure where they stand on GP's vaccinating, the problem with Pfizer is the temperature it needs to be stored at.

 

[ronandannette]

We only have a small lift in the restrictions to have 3 people instead of 2 people over for Christmas. It's a mess here now.

We finally got a date to start vaccinating, but it's a week after most EU countries, so the opposition is complaining that the NL is behind and slow. And they may have a point as we know for a long time already the vaccin will be coming. How come we haven't tested our IT yet?

The last 10 years a lot of post offices closed as there is no market for a store that is just a post office. So a lot of bookstores are now partially post offices. With the restriction of no non-essential purchases, there are too many discussions, arguments and frustrations when someone drops off a package at a post office in a bookstore, can do that, pay the postage, but cannot pay for a book, a postcard or something else. Therefore over 400 of these post offices will close on Monday. It's too expensive to open a store (gas, electricity etc.) for just post.
Consequence: our postal system was already suffering with the increase of packages needed to be delivered due to the holidays. It gets worse with the lockdown, and people shopping online.

Belgium is still campaigning against Dutch people jumping over the border to go shop in Belgium. (While I am typing this, Belgium announced that they want a negative covid test for anyone who enters the country).

For those interested, the first group to vaccinated here are the caretakers for people working in nursing homes and other similar facilities. I hope this brings some ease for the families to visit their relatives like before.
Today we received the news that in a nursing home in Rotterdam with about 145 people, over 100 people got infected (incl. 32 caretakers), 18 people have died.

We are not getting any reward system for those who get vaccinated.

During the first wave about 9000 people more passed away in the Netherlands than on average. During the second wave we are now at 5300 people more than on average.
Over 1500 people have died at home instead of the IC during the first wave. Mainly elderly people were asked by their GP if they wanted to go to the IC, or stay at home. If this hadn't happened, we probably would have had a bigger problem at the IC.

Research has also shown that feelings of angst, stress, anxiety are on the rise again, less confidence in how the government is handling things.
But % of people who say they will get vaccinated rose from 60% in November to 69% now. Those who said they would definitely not get it, dropped from 23% to 18% So, that's some good news

Really interesting information - there's just so many unanticipated difficulties resulting from this nightmare. Here in Canada there are very few (if any, IDK) stand-alone post offices left as well. When they started transitioning into licensed outlets (20 or so years ago now) inside retail stores, the nation's largest drugstore chain immediately snapped up most of the contracts. A huge national convenience store chain took a piece of the action as well. With both types of stores being essential, there won't be any disruption to our mail, at least not in larger towns and cities.

 

[NFLDERS]

Why? The goal is to ensure our health care resources aren't overwhelmed NOT to achieve an arbitrary number of cases.

I'm with jrb1979^ the goal before our health care resources were overwhelmed was to flatten 'Further' the curb, to attain even lower numbers than in the early Spring where had we still been following that strategy we would not be in the 'Pickle' we are in NOW.

I prefer to think of it as a whole jar! So.. disappointed that our Premier has not embraced 'Essential' again; instead we get to extend our newest restrictions to beyond the New Year!!

 

[NFLDERS]

I need to find more information about this - pronto. I've heard this mentioned very superficially before and I'm beside myself. I have never, ever, ever in my life heard it said of any vaccine that you will still contract the disease and be able to transmit it. What is it about this vaccine or virus? Are they all like that and if so, why do so few people know it.

I'm guessing that aerosol nature unlike other diseases?

 

[NFLDERS]

I need to find more information about this - pronto. I've heard this mentioned very superficially before and I'm beside myself. I have never, ever, ever in my life heard it said of any vaccine that you will still contract the disease and be able to transmit it. What is it about this vaccine or virus? Are they all like that and if so, why do so few people know it.

This one maybe?

https://first10em.com/aerosols-droplets-and-airborne-spread/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Today we received the news that in a nursing home in Rotterdam with about 145 people, over 100 people got infected (incl. 32 caretakers), 18 people have died.

I am sorry to hear this

With the restriction of no non-essential purchases, there are too many discussions, arguments and frustrations when someone drops off a package at a post office in a bookstore, can do that, pay the postage, but cannot pay for a book, a postcard or something else. Therefore over 400 of these post offices will close on Monday. It's too expensive to open a store (gas, electricity etc.) for just post.
Consequence: our postal system was already suffering with the increase of packages needed to be delivered due to the holidays. It gets worse with the lockdown, and people shopping online.

In some of the places here that did the blocking off of non-essential and for sure during our stay at home/safer at home/shelter at home orders people had these same frustrations.

Fascinating about your post office part. We still have a lot of stand alone post office locations at least near me but I can also buy stamps at some grocery stores and a few places you could drop off packages. Amazon returns right now Khol's (a clothing, home store) will take them though they are hoping you shop in their store and they even often give you a coupon when you drop your Amazon return package off.

But it's sad to see all those locations close. What will the employees do then? What will that mean for packages? I'm unfamiliar with the system there.

Belgium is still campaigning against Dutch people jumping over the border to go shop in Belgium. (While I am typing this, Belgium announced that they want a negative covid test for anyone who enters the country).

Is that being well received from citizens of both areas, like a mutual understanding?

 

[Jrb1979]

From the sounds of the things looks like southern Ontario will put into Lockdown starting Boxing day. Its unfortunate that things had to get to this point.

 

[ronandannette]

From the sounds of the things looks like southern Ontario will put into Lockdown starting Boxing day. Its unfortunate that things had to get to this point.

Aren't you in lock-down now? What am I missing? Is it just a matter of semantics? Here everything except essential work, retail outlets and and restaurant take out is closed and we are not permitted to meet with anyone except our own household, indoors or out. We call it lock-down. What specific restrictions are you referring to?

 

[Jrb1979]

Aren't you in lock-down now? What am I missing? Is it just a matter of semantics? Here everything except essential work, retail outlets and and restaurant take out is closed and we are not permitted to meet with anyone except our own household, indoors or out. We call it lock-down. What specific restrictions are you referring to?

Only some regions are in lockdown now. Hamilton, York Peel and Toronto are locked down. Niagara, Brant and Halton aren't yet. Everything is still open here in Niagara but starting Monday restaurants and gyms can only have 10 people at a time inside. You are only allowed 5 people inside your home now.

The rumor is on Monday they are going to announce that starting Boxing day the regions that aren't locked down will be. The places that are already locked down will have even more restrictions. Right now in the lockdown regions businesses are open for curbside and I have a feeling that will end come boxing day.

 

[ronandannette]

Only some regions are in lockdown now. Hamilton, York Peel and Toronto are locked down. Niagara, Brant and Halton aren't yet. Everything is still open here in Niagara but starting Monday restaurants and gyms can only have 10 people at a time inside. You are only allowed 5 people inside your home now.

The rumor is on Monday they are going to announce that starting Boxing day the regions that aren't locked down will be. The places that are already locked down will have even more restrictions. Right now in the lockdown regions businesses are open for curbside and I have a feeling that will end come boxing day.

Again, I'm a little jealous. 5 people, heck even two other people allowed would be enough to see family and friends at Christmas. We're at absolute zero - we can't even meet others outside. And from the beginning, any restrictions imposed have been province-wide so there's no way to loop-hole it.

 

[Jrb1979]

Again, I'm a little jealous. 5 people, heck even two other people allowed would be enough to see family and friends at Christmas. We're at absolute zero - we can't even meet others outside. And from the beginning, any restrictions imposed have been province-wide so there's no way to loop-hole it.

The limit is 5 but they have said for Christmas it should only be your household only. Most aren't going to listen and its a main reason we are in this situation.

Our regional health department put out a study and said the majority of spread is from private gatherings.

 

[lisaviolet]

Bottom line is people don’t like the govt mandates and are fearful they will never be removed. As it’s going every few days they keep moving the goal post out further and further of restrictions going away even past the point when anyone can get a vaccine that wants one.

I hear you.

I am only speaking about wearing masks, to help stop the spread - nothing more.

Mandates -

They shouldn't even be necessary for something that has evidence of helping us all -the very tired health care teams and those who are at high risk for a bad outcome. And the fact is we thought it was clear who that population would be, it is unfortunately not so clear.

Just for information sake - the absolute majority here were wearing masks when given the guidance and evidence. No mandate was necessary. When they did mandate it for indoor spaces here in Toronto, it simply cut down on outliers (very low numbers) and helped the store personnel deal with _______.

We discussed this in the office earlier this week. Some truly have difficulties wearing masks. It is often dismissed as ridiculous. If one ever has trouble breathing perhaps they will have a better understanding. If you start to cough, wheeze or choke...breathing quickens and becomes more shallow. This makes the issue worse than ever. Gasping for air can be a bit unnerving.

That is a different situation than what I was talking about TLSnell1981. Separate from the attitude discussed. I do have empathy for those who suffer when wearing one.

And I do understand the breathing. I have had sepsis twice, two long hospital stays. I know what gasping is like. And quite frankly that knowledge makes me even more frustrated about the aversion of wearing masks. No one should want to be at the mercy of a hospital in that condition, nor have a loved one there. I know the chances are slim to have a bad outcome if one even catches Covid, we have to live our lives. But I am continually perplexed why that one thought -the vulnerability of hospital care during a pandemic - doesn't make people more compliant. If not for yourself, for your loved ones. And having that thought does not make me housebound and overly scared at all. It just makes me do the best I can and call it a day. Doctors are often throwing a hail mary pass, when their first choice is not working in these dire situations. Of course they would never admit such a thing, but it's the truth. I have seen it in their eyes and actions. Not pretty all around - for patients, family and the medical staff. So why not do whatever helps, in the simplest way?

-----------

For anyone who tests positive, and is recovering at home -

it would be helpful to try to find an oximeter. Usually the lowering of saturation levels has distinct signs. Apparently Covid is playing out differently. Some feel completely normal while oxygen levels drop in silence. And that phenomenon is what is causing some cases to become critical, out of the blue.

 

[BadPinkTink]

@lisaviolet

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...ants-and-pubs-expected-to-close-39879872.html
Irish Government to stick with plans to allow inter-county travel until January 6, but restaurants and pubs expected to close

Inter-county travel will be permitted until January 6 despite the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) recommending that it should be banned from three days after Christmas.
The Government is also expected to allow restaurants and pubs to remain open until December 30.
Social visits to family homes will be reduced to just one household on the same date under plans which will be discussed by Cabinet on Tuesday.
On Thursday, Nphet recommended shutting down the hospitality sector and banning more than one household visit from December 28.
Chief medical officer Tony Holohan’s team also said county-to-county travel should be prohibited on the same day over fears of the rising spread of the coronavirus.
After negotiations with the hospitality industry it is expected restaurants and pubs that serve food will remain open until December 30.
Concerns over the impact of New Year’s celebrations on spread of the virus means they will remain closed for at least the early party of January.

https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-cases-18-december-5304936-Dec2020/A f urther 582 new cases of Covid-19 have been confirmed in Ireland, the National Public Health Emergency Team has said on Friday.
In a statement, it said that a further six people with Covid-19 have died.
There have now been 2,149 deaths in Ireland linked with Covid-19, along with 78,2548 cases of the virus.
As of 2pm Friday 18 December 198 Covid-19 patients are hospitalised, of which 34 are in ICU. There have been 13 additional hospitalisations in the past 24 hours.
Of the cases notified today:

• 310 are men, and 265 are women
• 60% are under 45 years of age
• The median age is 38 years old
• 193 in Dublin, 59 in Wexford, 47 in Louth, 42 in Meath, 34 in Cork and the remaining 207 cases are spread all other remaining counties.

 

[Karin1984]

But it's sad to see all those locations close. What will the employees do then? What will that mean for packages? I'm unfamiliar with the system there.

It means that if you have a package, you have to find an actual post office. I would have to look up where there is one in my town. I personally use the bookstore/post office to pick up packages (I don't like to have to stay at home at a certain time), the store is 5 minutes from my house, it's easy and convenient for me. People who have a package delivered either have to be home at the time the post office states or have it delivered to an actual post office.
Depending on the package (does it need signing etc), they can drop it off at neighbours, or try two times. If you are not home on the second try, they will bring it to the post office and you can pick it up there.

The employees will go home and wait for the restrictions to be lifted. The bookstores will probably use the government's support to pay for the employees.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It means that if you have a package, you have to find an actual post office. I would have to look up where there is one in my town. I personally use the bookstore/post office to pick up packages (I don't like to have to stay at home at a certain time), the store is 5 minutes from my house, it's easy and convenient for me. People who have a package delivered either have to be home at the time the post office states or have it delivered to an actual post office.
Depending on the package (does it need signing etc), they can drop it off at neighbours, or try two times. If you are not home on the second try, they will bring it to the post office and you can pick it up there.

The employees will go home and wait for the restrictions to be lifted. The bookstores will probably use the government's support to pay for the employees.

Well that wasn't as bad as I was envisioning but still bites all the same. Sounds like inconvenience with the timing of getting packages but there are worse things of course. Thanks for explaining

 

[Karin1984]

One of my childhood actors died of corona today

I've shared a bit on this board about Sinterklaas, the holiday we celebrate in the Netherlands on the 5th of December. The character of Sinterklaas is related to Santa Claus (read wikipedia for more)
The 'real' Sinterklaas, the one you see during the parade on the day of arrival, but also on all the television shows, is portrayed by one and the same actor. This actor. Every other time you see Sinterklaas at the mall, at school, at hospitals etc. are 'helpers'. The one you see and hear on tv, that's the real Sinterklaas. This actor portrayed Sinterklaas from 1986 till 2010 (with the occasion special after 2010). For 25 years this man influenced so many children's lives in a positive way. He will always be the Real Sinterklaas to generations here. Of course he was much more, he has been acting all his life on stage, on television, in movies.

I've seen him in the Crucible and a few years ago in a small local production of Midsummer night Dream. My brother worked on this last show as a theater technician, and knew him personally. According to him the man was as extraordinary as the part he was famous for.

This is really one of those deaths where you think: I just do not agree with this. Is this necessary?

 

[ronandannette]

Well that wasn't as bad as I was envisioning but still bites all the same. Sounds like inconvenience with the timing of getting packages but there are worse things of course. Thanks for explaining

It works very similarly here in Canada too. Our one seeming difference though is that our postal outlets are mostly inside retail stores (drug stores and 7-11's) that have been deemed essential, so there has been/won't be any disruption to the mail.

In urban areas daily mail (envelopes) is delivered either to your door (rarer and rarer these days) or to a neighbourhood "superbox", which is a big structure with little individual locked compartments to which people have their own key (one per address). They are far too small to hold packages so if somebody mails you a package, you get a notification slip that must be presented to the designated postal outlet where the package is being held. Mailing a package requires going to the outlet to have it inspected, weighed and the postage paid. Small rural communities have no delivery at all - all mail comes and goes through a postal outlet that may be many, many miles away from where one lives.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It works very similarly here in Canada too. Our one seeming difference though is that our postal outlets are mostly inside retail stores (drug stores and 7-11's) that have been deemed essential, so there has been/won't be any disruption to the mail.

In urban areas daily mail (envelopes) is delivered either to your door (rarer and rarer these days) or to a neighbourhood "superbox", which is a big structure with little individual locked compartments to which people have their own key (one per address). They are far too small to hold packages so if somebody mails you a package, you get a notification slip that must be presented to the designated postal outlet where the package is being held. Mailing a package requires going to the outlet to have it inspected, weighed and the postage paid. Small rural communities have no delivery at all - all mail comes and goes through a postal outlet that may be many, many miles away from where one lives.

That's an advantage then their location for the outlets since it meant they really wouldn't be shut down.

Cluster mailboxes are really common in the States these days for suburban areas for newer developments. My mom has her mailbox attached to her house, but the rental house we lived in (built in 2006) and our current home (built in 2014) both just have the cluster mailbox. My mother-in-law's past home they had like 4 or 5 traditional mailboxes 'clustered' together but not in a locked cluster mailbox.

USPS will deliver packages into the cluster mailbox assigned to your house if it will fit (at least ours will) but each cluster mailbox in our neighborhood has 1 larger slot where the postal worker will use a key to open, lock the package up and then put the key in your assigned mail box to open. If that is taken up then they will deliver to your front door. Signatures have been largely abandoned in requirement due to COVID but I have heard of issues with getting packages delivered that state they require it. Size can def. be an issue. IIRC the rental house was a shallower mail slot but it was taller. Our present mail slot is shorter but is deeper. I just had a package delivered on Wednesday and it was just in a padded envelope. They were able to fit it along with our other mail in just our normal mail slot.

Rural routes seem to be very similar there as it is here. I've seen people who they just have to get a PO Box because the mail just isn't delivered. But not everything accepts a PO Box as an address so that's always been something of a quandary. I haven't had to deal with that before but I can imagine how limiting that is