Are we all 'skinny challenged' compared to the world?

[wenrob]

Mom of 4 now adults. One of my kids was a chicken nugget Mac and cheese picky eater. All 4 kids were breast fed and raised the same with home cooked meals each night.

My biggest mom guilt memory is (one time)him crying at the table because he didn't like what was served and couldn't leave the table until he tried his food.

He's now my tallest, thinnest, most adventurous and most world traveled.

So please don't pat yourself too much on the back for 'doing it right' and judge other parenting styles.

I have been following along on this thread but have avoided posting as people get highly defensive when it comes to honest discussion about obesity but this is also one of my most distinct mom memories.

I was one of those moms who thought ‘picky’ eaters were made not born. That is until my DS came along. My twins were born five weeks early and were teeny, tiny and have been underweight their entire lives. (and still are at the age of 18 even though they are now eating me out of house and home ) Someone close to me ped called CPS on them because their child was underweight and I was terrified of that. My life became about keeping weight on these kids. DD was a great eater and would try anything but DS even as a baby wanted nothing to do with baby food or solids especially fruit or meat. I started piling on things he would eat like peanut butter, cheese, avocado, whole milk, Ranch, butter etc. while still offering up what I’d made for dinner. My DH wanted to do the sit at the table until you’ve finished your plate thing but I knew that wouldn’t work for him. One night I made chicken, broccoli and rice. DS pushed the plate away, put his head down on his arms and silently cried. It’s something that’s seared into my brain. I knew in my gut it wasn’t just being picky. Out of desperation I bribed him with a gummy bear if he would just try the broccoli. I can hear the disapproval now, lol but it worked and I have no shame. The one bite rule was implemented and after a week or two he didn’t expect or want the gummy bear.

In that time I figured out two things- definitely texture issues and two his mouth was so small and his teeth so crowded that is was very difficult for him to chew meat. (I should have realized the second sooner as I have the same problem) I never made separate meals but I started making softer cuts of meat and would not force the issue on things that would make him gag like mashed potatoes and rice. In their place he could have a double serving of veggies. Once his teeth were fixed he’s become a human eating machine. By far my most adventurous eater now and will try anything. He also still keeps trying things he doesn’t like. We still tease him about all the chicken nugget orders at fancy restaurants and Ranch (which he rarely uses now) running through his veins but I feel like fighting him at that time would have kept him in that space of only eating those things.

After this experience I’m convinced that if a kid is “picky” there’s most likely an underlying reason behind it and HUGE apologies to any parent I might have side eyed in the past. And you know what? Sometimes you just don’t like things. It’s okay for kids to have preferences too.

 

[tzolkin]

I wonder if some of those poor starving kids in Africa (or anywhere else, for that matter), who never get any food, have “food aversions?” That’s taking the if they’re hungry they’ll eat argument to a tragic extreme. Asking seriously.

When faced with starvation, most people will (at least attempt to) eat foods that they find repulsive in an effort to survive even if those foods make them gag/vomit/etc. Just like most kids will do the same when they feel absolutely forced to eat foods that they have an aversion to. But, why would parents want to purposely inflict that stressful of an experience on their child just to prove a point at the dinner table?

If you are asking seriously for real-life experiences, I have friends who were some of the "Lost Boys" of Sudan and others who fled the genocide in Rwanda. Thousands of the "Lost Boys" died of starvation during their journey and my friends have discussed in detail how they would feed the little ones dirt and even drink their own urine to survive. Despite that, yes, they do still have foods that they don't like to eat. And, they also do not force their children to eat foods that they do not like.

I think every adult has some food that they find absolutely repulsive (eyeballs, duck fetuses, bugs, testicles, etc), yet I never see any of them forcing themselves to eat those items or other adults insisting that they will eat them when they are "hungry enough".

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I distinctly remember getting bread in Italy. One day I was feeling sick to my stomach and it was the only thing I could bring myself to eat while my family ate lunch.

Married into an Italian family, specifically from very northern Italy in the Lombardy region. We have all seen Italians eat with fork in the right hand, bread in the left . They love their bread And never ever twirl anything with spoon. Ever. The shame you will feel will last decades later

Portion sizes in the US are out of control. We often say it'd make sense to reduce the portions, and then they could drop the prices, too. When we go to Longhorn (maybe once a year?) we share a meal. Some of the steaks are huge, the loaded baked potato is enormous, and it comes with a big salad and a loaf of bread (and you can ask for a second loaf). We order the steak with the bone (so I can gnaw on it at home, hahaha) and split the meal. I leave an additional $5 on the tip.

I love my food. LOVE MY FOOD. But I can’t finish my plate when we eat out. My 20 yo ds and I often split now. We each get appetizers and share those then one entree to split. It’s just a massive amount of food that we get and it’s rarely something we will reheat. It’s almost overwhelming sometimes when an absolute PILE of food comes out.

 

[White Cat]

I wonder if some of those poor starving kids in Africa (or anywhere else, for that matter), who never get any food, have “food aversions?” That’s taking the if they’re hungry they’ll eat argument to a tragic extreme. Asking seriously.

A friend of mine was a POW of the Viet Cong in the Parrots Beak area along Cambodia. He meantioned that he learned to eat rats, roaches, bugs, maggots, anything he could catch.

 

[walt34]

IIRC, in Italy there’s a flat charge for plate service (I think that’s what it translates to), which covers the cost of flatware, glasses, plates, and basic (when provided) bread service.

'Coperto' in Italy, 'Gedeck' in the German speaking parts of Europe.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I’m wondering if the “coperto” in Italy and “gedeck” of Germanic regions are generally found in areas that tourists frequent? I know that is true for certain areas of Paris- Champs d’ Elysees, train stations, Notre Dame, etc. For instance, the large cafes with outside seating has 3 different priced menus with the outer seats being most expensive and the indoor seats, least expensive.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I wonder if some of those poor starving kids in Africa (or anywhere else, for that matter), who never get any food, have “food aversions?” That’s taking the if they’re hungry they’ll eat argument to a tragic extreme. Asking seriously.

I’m always happy to have a serious conversation. Aversions exist in all cultures across the globe. Texture issues and preferences exist in all cultures across the globe. The difference between cultures is the amount, type and VARIETY of foods. You need options in order to develop preferences. KWIM? What are the readily available options? If there isn’t much, then it’s hard to develop a preference for one food over another.

And unfortunately there absolutely are children in this world that have aversions so severe they will starve themselves if there isn’t medical intervention. the intervention can be as little as a nutritionist or as great as “forced feeding” through an ng tube or who knows what else. Thankfully we never got to that point of medical feeding.

BUT…please know all of us moms in this boat have had that forced feeding or we can call CPS held over us. We are told that their weight is a concern, (my son finally hit 25 lbs at…..6 years old)we are questioned on every little thing they take in. We have had to weigh food, make lists, be questioned like we don‘t know how to feed our child.

And it absolutely gets to the point where you will quite literally let them eat whatever they want because they’re eating and you’re scared that not only are they so small and unhealthy but also that somebody is going to come take your kid away. That’s the reality for many of us, not all. I do know there are many learned behaviors etc but still within those, do we really know what the issue really is? Is it the paremts? We just don’t know.

So as somebody that was a terrified mom basically being TOLD I wasn’t enough for my child, I refuse to judge another mom that has fallen into a food trap, regardless of why they are there.

ETA: my son’s food aversions…started with formula..it went downhill from there. It was awful . He’s 25 now. Has a very limited diet and weights a whopping 120 . But he’s a happy guy.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A friend of mine was a POW of the Viet Cong in the Parrots Beak area along Cambodia. He meantioned that he learned to eat rats, roaches, bugs, maggots, anything he could catch.

My husband works with someone from China. He cooks and eats some things are anyone’s guess what they are. Smells are unusual and often very pungent. He says, “If it moves, we eat it!”

When faced with starvation, most people will (at least attempt to) eat foods that they find repulsive in an effort to survive even if those foods make them gag/vomit/etc. Just like most kids will do the same when they feel absolutely forced to eat foods that they have an aversion to. But, why would parents want to purposely inflict that stressful of an experience on their child just to prove a point at the dinner table?

If you are asking seriously for real-life experiences, I have friends who were some of the "Lost Boys" of Sudan and others who fled the genocide in Rwanda. Thousands of the "Lost Boys" died of starvation during their journey and my friends have discussed in detail how they would feed the little ones dirt and even drink their own urine to survive. Despite that, yes, they do still have foods that they don't like to eat. And, they also do not force their children to eat foods that they do not like.

I think every adult has some food that they find absolutely repulsive (eyeballs, duck fetuses, bugs, testicles, etc), yet I never see any of them forcing themselves to eat those items or other adults insisting that they will eat them when they are "hungry enough".

It’s funny you should mention this as it was my first thought, as well. I have a good friend who is one of the Lost Boys. He used to talk to my kids when they were growing up about how things were for him when he was young. It really made an impact on them and helped them appreciate what they have. When they were in grade school he told them that he learned to write his letters in the dirt, with a stick. His village couldn’t afford a teacher, even. He said they had to make a choice between buying a cow and paying a teacher, and the cow always won, because it fed them. Learning was apparently secondary. I will have to ask him when I see him next about how his own children eat. He is quite philosophical about everything so that should be interesting. I know he has religious requirements for food. Much of his energy, to this day, is helping the people of his native village, despite living in the U.S.

 

[walt34]

I’m wondering if the “coperto” in Italy and “gedeck” of Germanic regions are generally found in areas that tourists frequent? I know that is true for certain areas of Paris- Champs d’ Elysees, train stations, Notre Dame, etc. For instance, the large cafes with outside seating has 3 different priced menus with the outer seats being most expensive and the indoor seats, least expensive.

Coperto/Gedeck is usually not a tourist trap but has been a tradition in many restaurants for decades if not generations. It used to be just a few euros (3-6 would have been normal price until a few years ago - in some areas it has increased since then).
The different menus by seating area is something that has become more frequent in touristy areas but this has also some historical precedent: it used to be incredibly cheap to drink coffee at the bar of a restaurant in Italy as compared to sitting at a table. I remember the time when people were complaining loudly about unbearable price increases when the price for an espresso consumed at an italian bar jumped above 1 euro. Having a coffee and a croissant at the bar of a french café used to be one of the most affordable breakfast options for locals and travellers alike.

 

[GreatLakes]

I’ve read that the French do not exercise, like at a gym, the way we do. It’s interesting, isn’t it?

I believe it. I listen to a lot of interviews with guys like Dan Buettner and Daniel Lieberman that talk about that phenomenon. The bottom line is that our bodies are designed to move and chase food or walk long distances foraging but we have made our lives much more sedentary so the gym moved in to provide the resistance and movement we would have naturally had just living our lives. It make sense. No one chasing down food for three days to eat needed to find a treadmill to make up for their 8 hours at a desk.

 

[Christine]

I believe it. I listen to a lot of interviews with guys like Dan Buettner and Daniel Lieberman that talk about that phenomenon. The bottom line is that our bodies are designed to move and chase food or walk long distances foraging but we have made out lives much less sedentary so the gym moved in to provide the resistance and movement we would have naturally had just living our lives. It make sense. No one chasing down food for three days to eat needed to find a treadmill to make up for their 8 hours at a desk.

I feel like everytime I go to Costco I'm walking across the Great Prairie and foraging and fighting for food! Does that not count, lol?

 

[NYCgrrl]

Coperto/Gedeck is usually not a tourist trap but has been a tradition in many restaurants for decades if not generations. It used to be just a few euros (3-6 would have been normal price until a few years ago - in some areas it has increased since then).
The different menus by seating area is something that has become more frequent in touristy areas but this has also some historical precedent: it used to be incredibly cheap to drink coffee at the bar of a restaurant in Italy as compared to sitting at a table. I remember the time when people were complaining loudly about unbearable price increases when the price for an espresso consumed at an italian bar jumped above 1 euro. Having a coffee and a croissant at the bar of a french café used to be one of the most affordable breakfast options for locals and travellers alike.

Interesting. I’ve never been to Italy (hangs head in shame) but I’ve lived in the German part of CH and frequently visited Germany and Austria. The thing is I rarely eat in restaurants in those places unless celebrating something and I just don’t know about “gedeck“ at all. Of course the fact that I don’t snack on bread could well have something to do with it as well. Now my interest is piqued so guess it’ll come up in convo soon. Thanks for the info. I love learning new things!

Oh but the price of food at a French bar is the same for tourists and locals just to be clear. It’s also the same for everyone at the outside tables, but we know who is eating there predominately, ha.

 

[mousefan73]

In Germany is is illegal to have a "Gedeck" fee added as a separate fee. Menu prices need to reflect all costs. what you see on the menu is 1. charge for item 2. includes taxes 3. Server fee

IF they wanted to add that fee they need to include/ absorb in the price of food. And not an extra feed. The server fee does not include tip, which is around 5 to 10% most doing 10% nowadays somewhat similar to just rounding up to the next euro if it’s under $10

The only exception is if you’re having a party, and in many cases people bring their own cakes. The restaurant supplying the setting for that in many cases ads a fee per person.

This can be different in other German-speaking countries like Austria or Switzerland I’m referring specifically to Germany. if you see an extra fee explicit on the menu in a German restaurant, something is off. It was recently a big scandal where the island of sylt tried to do this.

 

[gmi3804]

The French probably don’t go to gyms because of their small portions of healthy (ie, real ingredients) foods, red wine consumption, fifth-floor walk-up apartments, bicycling, etc. Or variations on that stereotype.

Same with Italians; they tend to eat local. Like really local. Funny, when you go to Italy you don’t see many ethnic (non-Italian) restaurants like you do in other countries.

 

[walt34]

In Germany is is illegal to have a "Gedeck" fee added as a separate fee

Perfectly legal in Austria and Italy, as long as it is declared on the menu. Not sure about Switzerland.

 

[LSUmiss]

I have been following along on this thread but have avoided posting as people get highly defensive when it comes to honest discussion about obesity but this is also one of my most distinct mom memories.

I was one of those moms who thought ‘picky’ eaters were made not born. That is until my DS came along. My twins were born five weeks early and were teeny, tiny and have been underweight their entire lives. (and still are at the age of 18 even though they are now eating me out of house and home ) Someone close to me ped called CPS on them because their child was underweight and I was terrified of that. My life became about keeping weight on these kids. DD was a great eater and would try anything but DS even as a baby wanted nothing to do with baby food or solids especially fruit or meat. I started piling on things he would eat like peanut butter, cheese, avocado, whole milk, Ranch, butter etc. while still offering up what I’d made for dinner. My DH wanted to do the sit at the table until you’ve finished your plate thing but I knew that wouldn’t work for him. One night I made chicken, broccoli and rice. DS pushed the plate away, put his head down on his arms and silently cried. It’s something that’s seared into my brain. I knew in my gut it wasn’t just being picky. Out of desperation I bribed him with a gummy bear if he would just try the broccoli. I can hear the disapproval now, lol but it worked and I have no shame. The one bite rule was implemented and after a week or two he didn’t expect or want the gummy bear.

In that time I figured out two things- definitely texture issues and two his mouth was so small and his teeth so crowded that is was very difficult for him to chew meat. (I should have realized the second sooner as I have the same problem) I never made separate meals but I started making softer cuts of meat and would not force the issue on things that would make him gag like mashed potatoes and rice. In their place he could have a double serving of veggies. Once his teeth were fixed he’s become a human eating machine. By far my most adventurous eater now and will try anything. He also still keeps trying things he doesn’t like. We still tease him about all the chicken nugget orders at fancy restaurants and Ranch (which he rarely uses now) running through his veins but I feel like fighting him at that time would have kept him in that space of only eating those things.

After this experience I’m convinced that if a kid is “picky” there’s most likely an underlying reason behind it and HUGE apologies to any parent I might have side eyed in the past. And you know what? Sometimes you just don’t like things. It’s okay for kids to have preferences too.

I have the exact same thing with DS & felt the same way you did before. His is definitely texture & anxiety. He actually won’t even eat chicken nuggets! It’s mostly peanut butter & bread.

 

[Evinrude21]

Other countries also cook a lot cleaner and ban a lot of the stuff that makes us unhealthy

I have a fatty liver when I asked my doctor about it he pretty much said “ayy we live in America, we all do”

 

[wenrob]

I have the exact same thing with DS & felt the same way you did before. His is definitely texture & anxiety. He actually won’t even eat chicken nuggets! It’s mostly peanut butter & bread.

Just keep offering with no pressure and hopefully one day he’ll blow your mind by actually liking whatever it is. It’s actually on my FB timeline the first time DS ate allll his broccoli and asked for more. I was that excited about it, lol. Take your time and don’t let anyone make you feel bad about it.

 

[kymom99]

Other countries also cook a lot cleaner and ban a lot of the stuff that makes us unhealthy

I have a fatty liver when I asked my doctor about it he pretty much said “ayy we live in America, we all do”

I don’t know why we as a country aren’t smarter. Myself included.

 

[LSUmiss]

Just keep offering with no pressure and hopefully one day he’ll blow your mind by actually liking whatever it is. It’s actually on my FB timeline the first time DS ate allll his broccoli and asked for more. I was that excited about it, lol. Take your time and don’t let anyone make you feel bad about it.

That’s what we do.