December DVC Sales Tumble

Though, I imagine, they would probably rather not have to do this:

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True I did see that in one of my emails. Through 6/12/24 is a good deal, we were there in 2022 around the first of June and that was right before peak summer crowds. It was not too crowded, but things were still opening up in Hawaii at that time
 
There is already a VDH contract listed in the $150s that has been sitting for a month.
We actually made an offer on that one a bit below asking as it was sorta stripped but they are $155 firm. There will be others though! Made an offer on another on the other site and the seller is MIA. Even the agent can't get them to respond.
 
Though, I imagine, they would probably rather not have to do this:

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They had something like that on offer when I was looking at last April. But they were only for the hotel rooms, and even 30% off was not so appealing when we compared it to a 1br OV on our own points - which was still mega-expensive but not as much of an upcharge as I'd expected compared to a no-view hotel room with no kitchen or w/d.

BTW, they had a weekly DVC members party that was a thinly disguised sales event but still very low pressure. They held it at the luau grounds and I noticed a lot of people on their balconies watching. It was very fun for us, and I wonder how many conversations about DVC that started for the people who *couldn't* attend. I know I looked at the incentives for direct AUL if you bought onsite and they were pretty close to the VGF deals.
 
We actually made an offer on that one a bit below asking as it was sorta stripped but they are $155 firm. There will be others though! Made an offer on another on the other site and the seller is MIA. Even the agent can't get them to respond.
It seems like a lot of these VDH sellers aren’t very serious about selling!
 
They might make more in total as a rental. But, those earnings are over a long period of time (I'd hope the analysis mentioned above included the time-value of money in its calculations. If not, they are probably wrong.) Even so, selling it as a timeshare has two different advantages.

Advantage one: it returns capital faster, which looks better on the balance sheet (important for quarterly reports) and allows them to recycle the capital more often. So, it's not a one-to-one comparison for timeshare vs. hotel, because the same capital can be deployed to build more timeshare units than hotel units over the lifetime of the hotel.

Advantage two: It transfers the risk of reduced travel demand from the company to individual owners. I suspect this is a bigger reason why Disney has gone down the DVC route so aggressively. Those of us who were around TWDC during the 9/11 and Great Recession periods remember some pretty stark moves. They closed parts of Port Orleans during the 9/11 travel slump "for refurbishment" but really to get those rooms off the books. During the Great Recession, they ran a "buy 4 get 3" promotion on hotels/tickets---effectively giving a discount north of 40% on the room.

And we all remember what happened during the pandemic. DVC resorts re-opened first, and the others took a while to come back online.

There was also a good Laughing Place article that Kevin Yee wrote way back when that looked at a consultant/internal report about what Peak Oil might do to WDW's viability. The short verison: If oil got north of $X/bbl, WDW ceases to be an interesting business because flying becomes prohibitively expensive. $X was lower than you'd think.

Thankfully, fracking to the rescue on the whole oil thing. But. the lesson remains: having a huge resort dependent on the whims of the general public to travel is risky. Timeshare owners, on the other hand, have already paid for their lodging, and are contractually committed to continue doing so. That reduces their travel friction, and essentially builds in some structural demand for the product.

Since 9/11, Disney has opened precisely three cash resorts/resort components: AoA (which started construction prior to the attack), the Gran Destino Tower (convention business--a different beast), and parts of Aulani (Hawaii, also a different beast). Everything else is either new DVC builds, bulldozing cash rooms for DVC builds (CBR->Riviera, CR-North->BLT), or converting cash rooms to DVC (GFV2, Jambo, CCV).


They can't be, because they are not a general benefit, they are a Blue Card thing. Anything that is Blue Card is essentially paid for out of sales.
exactly this. I also like to explain it this way:

If you have these two choices, which one will you prefer:

A) $100 per year for 50 years.
B) $2,500 today.

Most people will pick B because money in the pocket today is better than money in your pocket tomorrow.

It’s similar to the discounted gift cards. They’re willing to give you a discount on them if you give them your money today.
 
They had something like that on offer when I was looking at last April. But they were only for the hotel rooms, and even 30% off was not so appealing when we compared it to a 1br OV on our own points - which was still mega-expensive but not as much of an upcharge as I'd expected compared to a no-view hotel room with no kitchen or w/d.

BTW, they had a weekly DVC members party that was a thinly disguised sales event but still very low pressure. They held it at the luau grounds and I noticed a lot of people on their balconies watching. It was very fun for us, and I wonder how many conversations about DVC that started for the people who *couldn't* attend. I know I looked at the incentives for direct AUL if you bought onsite and they were pretty close to the VGF deals.
Any good freebies at the party? Will be there next week.
 
I had always assumed the lounges were funded out of our dues, is that not the case?

If they are funded by DVC as a cost of sales, we can most certainly expect to see it become more overt as/if sales slow.
Nope. They are from DVD Marketing Budgets. If funded through Dues they could not restrict any dues-paying owner, including the dreaded White Card/DVC-N crowd. To restrict anything to DVC-Y they have to pay for it from their revenue, not dues.
 
Yeah, but it is essentially stripped of two years worth of points….
It seems like if we are considering what we would pay for a VDH contract anytime soon, it should be with the assumption that at least some points will be missing because I imagine most contracts listed in the next couple of years will be at least partially stripped—it would be the very rare seller that would buy a new VDH contract and then attempt to resell it before using any of the points
 
They can't be, because they are not a general benefit, they are a Blue Card thing. Anything that is Blue Card is essentially paid for out of sales

Nope. They are from DVD Marketing Budgets. If funded through Dues they could not restrict any dues-paying owner, including the dreaded White Card/DVC-N crowd. To restrict anything to DVC-Y they have to pay for it from their revenue, not dues

Thanks both! I had complete forgotten about the blue card restrictions.
 
It seems like if we are considering what we would pay for a VDH contract anytime soon, it should be with the assumption that at least some points will be missing because I imagine most contracts listed in the next couple of years will be at least partially stripped—it would be the very rare seller that would buy a new VDH contract and then attempt to resell it before using any of the points
I agree, but then you have to compare it to direct with incentives, Welcome Home, MB and POSSIBLY a year of rentals so that everything is Apples to Apples.

IMO, not low enough for a restricted tower with documented quality control issues….. if they were unrestricted…. completely different story.
 
People shouldn't kid themselves that the lounge is DVC being nice and benefit-oriented to members. It's there to sell points, and it won't shock me to see them go more and more overt about that.

They're not spending that money out of kindness to anyone but themselves.

Happy members walking around in the park with their DVC merch on display is likely the most powerful sales tool DVC has in their toolbox. Sure if I peel the onion back at the core it is what you said but I believe it's a bit less "negative" than that. I do think they understand the power of reciprocity for the members.... with the current madness on resale restrictions and all of the blah that creates adding noise that makes it seem like they don't....

I am no accountant, but I suspect that perhaps there is some tax advantage to doing it this way?

I believe one of the reasons floated around on why they were so set on building VDH is that Ken P. used to be linked to DVC and it was on of his key dreams to expand the DVC presence at Disneyland. I have no direct knowledge on all of this but it made sense to me....
 
I sometimes think about adding VDH as our 4th home (we live in Southern California own AUL, VGF, and BCV) but because we are so close we rarely plan DLR trips more than a few weeks in advance, maybe occasionally as much as 3-6m, but either way it would be extremely rare to book far enough out for home resort access. I assume that VDH will be at least a bit better than VGC, but I’m still wary of being able to get any availability inside 3m over the long term—once it sells out or Disneyland Forward happens, whichever of those things comes first. Prior to Disneyland Forward, we’d prefer the closer location of VGC anyway.

Anyway, it’s hard to justify the (much) higher per point cost of VDH if you’ll never use its home resort booking advantage (and I worry about availability even more if there’s a chance it could get put in a trust), and since it will be restricted resale, I can’t imagine buying more than 75 points (40-50 probably better?) or paying much more than $100/pt…but if small contracts get closer to $100, we’d start seriously thinking about adding some west coast points. I’m less worried about stripped contracts because I don’t need VDH points for at least a couple years, but I’m not going to pay anywhere near direct sales after incentives, $20/yr of MB, and $20/yr for each year it’s stripped. Now that we are in 2024, I presume you get MBs for 2023, so that’s what, about $200/pt minus $40-60 of stripping, and then another significant discount for them being restricted… you get close to $100.

I can see why a rational buyer who plans their DLR vacations more than 7m in advance and who loves the Disneyland Hotel location or theming might be willing to pay $20-40 more per point that I would…which is why I’ll probably never manage to find a willing resale seller. 🙃
 
I hypothesize that there won’t be a resale VDH that isn’t stripped for a while… People will have sold the points for MB or used/rented the points themselves…. but you never know….

I’ll be intrigued to see non-owners opinions of VGC vs VDH after the refurb….
I really need to stop searching the aggregator sites regularly, it really is only going to get me into trouble, but since I can’t help myself I just saw a VDH listing that just went up with its full allotment of points. Makes me so curious what leads one to buy, not even use once and then turnaround and sell at what will certainly be a loss in some form.
 
I really need to stop searching the aggregator sites regularly, it really is only going to get me into trouble, but since I can’t help myself I just saw a VDH listing that just went up with its full allotment of points. Makes me so curious what leads one to buy, not even use once and then turnaround and sell at what will certainly be a loss in some form.
Can only be a change in life circumstances I suspect… job loss etc.

I also need to stop browsing the aggregator sites. We can form a support group if you like.
 
Can only be a change in life circumstances I suspect… job loss etc.
Yeah that can be the only answer and if you don’t know about the renter’s market (or just don’t want to deal with it) the only choice is to sell at a loss. Sadly, at their current listing price it’ll never move so they’ll have to take a bigger hit if they really need to be done with it :/
I also need to stop browsing the aggregator sites. We can form a support group if you like.
Haha we should create an Addonitis Anonymous group, keep ourselves financially responsible and rational
 

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