Another high school shooting, this time in MD

Gotcha. It just sounded like from your question " I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA" that there may have been more into it than what was written given the thread topic is a school shooting rather than memberships in general. In the end if any poster simply said "I agree with their cause" what would it being the NRA have to do with it? given that people join a variety of memberships because they agree/support their cause. Or people join a variety of memberships because of the benefits included. I guess I was trying to say I didn't understand why NRA was singled out (though I know you were coming at it from a respectful manner).

I completely understand that, and while I did try to say that it was a genuine question, I know that it’s a highly charged issue. I appreciate your answer, and request for clarification. The NRA was singled out specifically because he mentioned that he had a membership to it. Again, it was this thread because that’s where it came up.

If the answer is, as you say, just “I agree with their cause”, then that’s fine. I’m just curious whether there are reasons beyond that for taking the step to join the organisation, and it sounds like there are. There was no subtext or ulterior motive - I was genuinely just curious, and have never come across someone before who said they were a member. As I say, though, I understand that it’s a highly charged issue, and as a Brit, it’s not something that I have any interest in debating, since I don’t feel that it’s my place. :)
 
For me the most important reason is that they are the biggest Pro 2nd Amendment group, they are the biggest dog on the block defending my rights. Their are others but not as well known and therefore not as vilified so you probably never hear about them. They also do offer legal advise with concerns to firearms, and they also are huge into promoting firearms safety with classes all over the US. Any questions feel free to ask.

I appreciate you answering me - thank you. I’m interested that they run firearms safety courses, though obviously it makes sense. As I say, it was pure curiosity, so thank you for indulging me. :)
 
I appreciate you answering me - thank you. I’m interested that they run firearms safety courses, though obviously it makes sense. As I say, it was pure curiosity, so thank you for indulging me. :)
You are most welcome, I’m glad to have an open conversation. My wife’s uncle and cousin are certified NRA instructors, they teach courses to certify people looking to get their CCP(concealed carry permit).
 
Well those people are correct, it isn't the gun killing anyone, it is a person using a gun, but the fact is there really is no argument, we have the 2nd Amendment that guarantees our right to bear arms. It isn't going anywhere.
Now I have no problem taking guns away from the criminals, you know the ones committing the murders, but there will never be enough support in the US to disarm it's law abiding citizens.

And there it is. Because the second amendment gives us the right to buy AR-15s. The most misrepresented amendment ever.

When you run into a tyrannical state, let me know.
 


I completely understand that, and while I did try to say that it was a genuine question, I know that it’s a highly charged issue. I appreciate your answer, and request for clarification. The NRA was singled out specifically because he mentioned that he had a membership to it. Again, it was this thread because that’s where it came up.

If the answer is, as you say, just “I agree with their cause”, then that’s fine. I’m just curious whether there are reasons beyond that for taking the step to join the organisation, and it sounds like there are. There was no subtext or ulterior motive - I was genuinely just curious, and have never come across someone before who said they were a member. As I say, though, I understand that it’s a highly charged issue, and as a Brit, it’s not something that I have any interest in debating, since I don’t feel that it’s my place. :)
Oh no worries. I think it's just because the topic of the thread which is a school shooting. It's something that can (and usually becomes) locked down quite easily so I can see where it could (though doesn't have to be that's for sure) go down a rabbit hole if you're speaking indepthly about the NRA and the whys behind being a member in the context of speaking about school shootings which always end in a gun control debate on the DIS. It's also because I know the NRA has not been spoken favorably about in other threads by some posters so I could see where a conversation concerning whys behind a membership could spark not so nice talk. I know that's not where you were intending to go now so I think I was just thinking too many steps ahead :)
 
The thing I am curious about is why all of a sudden we have this huge uptick in these shootings. What is the variable that changed? It isn't the guns? If we talk specifically about the AR-15 it became available in 1963 while the AWB came into effect in 1994. That is 30 years of this gun being as easy to acquire, if not easier, as it is now without school shooting after school shooting. Hunting firearms have been available even longer yet school shootings are a new phenomenon. Even Columbine was isolated and didn't have another shooting the week after that and the week after that.

I don't think there is a significantly higher incidence of mental health issues now than there was in the past. The 1970's and 1980's for example didn't have, as far as I know, any vastly different number of people suffering from these mental health issues but school shootings weren't common and both decades pre-date the AWB that was in place between 1994 and 2004 so I don't think it was strictly mental health either.

That leaves environmental variables but what are they? Anti-depressants, something in our diet, family situations, what?

Any good experiment controls all variables and only changes the one being tested. What is that one variable that has changed in the last decade? This isn't an anti or pro gun question, it is a legitimate curiosity as to what all of a sudden snapped and caused there to be this hockey-stick shaped uptick in school shootings?

I was on another forum discussing this same issue. I agree with all your points. Society and how we behave has changed a bit from just 30 years ago. If you are old like me (50s), you will remember when schools (teachers/administration) received the utmost respect. If the school called your home, they were right, you were wrong, and the school was backed up by the parents. Now, maybe there were times that was wrong, but I think we've seen a total 180 change in relationship between schools, parents, and kids. What I started to see when my kids where in school was that if the child was reprimanded, constructively criticized, etc. the parents were immediately on the defense and fought back; often in front of the child. So now you have a situation of an erosion of respect environment where kids spend a majority of their time. But that's not all there is.

We then have the media. Loud and in your face 24/7. Whenever we've had these active shooter situations, it's in your face for weeks. Pictures of the deceased, hours of discussion on the shooter. The tears, the tragedy, the attention. For someone who is angry and unstable, this type of attention is a dream come true. Honestly, I believe they want this attention more than anything. For whatever reason, they feel small and insignificant. This gets them their limelight. I would put the Columbine shooters in as an exception because I don't think they had a clue of how notorious they would be. They truly wanted to cause harm. After Columbine, I think it's copykat with a certain population.

And to touch on the mental illness aspect, I was in school in the 60s/70s. When people started being "weirdos" in school, they were gone. They weren't mainstreamed. They went to a special school after that. In my area, much of that funding was cut and the mainstreaming started in the early 80s.. I know that can vary by where you were living. Now, it's full on mainstreaming. You have kids that are odd/off/mental and they never fit in with the regular students. This does a lot of damage.

Our culture has also become very accepting of violence. If you are younger, you probably have no idea of the shift. I don't think I saw a violent movie until I was about 14 years old. It was shocking to me. It was very sporadic that violence in entertainment (for me) was an odd occurrence. Now, everything I watch is pretty violent. Even sitcoms on networks are more violent now than just a few years ago. For a developing brain (even an old one), it's not good. It's worse for a troubled teen who is angry, because it almost seems acceptable to an immature person. I can feel how even I've become laid back about it.
 


And there it is. Because the second amendment gives us the right to buy AR-15s. The most misrepresented amendment ever.

When you run into a tyrannical state, let me know.
Our government and governments in general are pretty well known for slowly wittling away at rights until they no longer exist so I think gun owners have a right to be concerned.

I grew up in a house with several guns. I don't own any but to be honest I would actually kind of like to try shooting one. I loved archery so it stands to reason I might have fun learning to shoot.

My father's guns are hunting rifles by the way he has several. As a kid they weren't all locked up but they were all in places I wouldn't have been able to get to. (Some were displayed and as a kid they didn't have to be in locked ones).

Although I agree with several things that need to be done for gun control I am very careful to what those things are and I think most people should be.

Making everyone get background checks and gun permits (even as a kid he needed those in my state) I am find with. Confiscating all guns someone has a permit to when convicted of a violent crime I could get behind as well.
 
The thing I am curious about is why all of a sudden we have this huge uptick in these shootings. What is the variable that changed? It isn't the guns? If we talk specifically about the AR-15 it became available in 1963 while the AWB came into effect in 1994. That is 30 years of this gun being as easy to acquire, if not easier, as it is now without school shooting after school shooting. Hunting firearms have been available even longer yet school shootings are a new phenomenon. Even Columbine was isolated and didn't have another shooting the week after that and the week after that.

I don't think there is a significantly higher incidence of mental health issues now than there was in the past. The 1970's and 1980's for example didn't have, as far as I know, any vastly different number of people suffering from these mental health issues but school shootings weren't common and both decades pre-date the AWB that was in place between 1994 and 2004 so I don't think it was strictly mental health either.

That leaves environmental variables but what are they? Anti-depressants, something in our diet, family situations, what?

Any good experiment controls all variables and only changes the one being tested. What is that one variable that has changed in the last decade? This isn't an anti or pro gun question, it is a legitimate curiosity as to what all of a sudden snapped and caused there to be this hockey-stick shaped uptick in school shootings?


I also think something has changed, but unlike a controlled study, it's probably more than one thing out in the real world.

Mental illness is definitely part of it. (I personally do think there is more of that now, but maybe you're right and it was just more hidden before? I'm not 100% sure.)

I certainly think the pace of society has sped up, and people have little chance to really process information. Many who could have coped before just can't now.

Families are different, children are being raised differently...there are a whole host of changes to the point that I think it's impossible to isolate just one variable.
 
The thing I am curious about is why all of a sudden we have this huge uptick in these shootings. What is the variable that changed? It isn't the guns? If we talk specifically about the AR-15 it became available in 1963 while the AWB came into effect in 1994. That is 30 years of this gun being as easy to acquire, if not easier, as it is now without school shooting after school shooting. Hunting firearms have been available even longer yet school shootings are a new phenomenon. Even Columbine was isolated and didn't have another shooting the week after that and the week after that.

I don't think there is a significantly higher incidence of mental health issues now than there was in the past. The 1970's and 1980's for example didn't have, as far as I know, any vastly different number of people suffering from these mental health issues but school shootings weren't common and both decades pre-date the AWB that was in place between 1994 and 2004 so I don't think it was strictly mental health either.

That leaves environmental variables but what are they? Anti-depressants, something in our diet, family situations, what?

Any good experiment controls all variables and only changes the one being tested. What is that one variable that has changed in the last decade? This isn't an anti or pro gun question, it is a legitimate curiosity as to what all of a sudden snapped and caused there to be this hockey-stick shaped uptick in school shootings?

First the gun used in the MD shooting was a hand gun so that sort of throws out the assumption by many that it is the gun. It also bring into the question of any new laws being effective as while the gun was owned by his father, HE could not legally own a gun.

But as to the rest of it, I personally think its multiple things. I would say family situations, possibly. They haven't all been on anti depressants but maybe its that they needed to be? This boy went after his ex girlfriend.

I think one problem is that we, as a society, lump all school shooting together. To find the real reasons, I think we need to look at each case seperately to figure out what was going on with THAT person. .
 
Oh no worries. I think it's just because the topic of the thread which is a school shooting. It's something that can (and usually becomes) locked down quite easily so I can see where it could (though doesn't have to be that's for sure) go down a rabbit hole if you're speaking indepthly about the NRA and the whys behind being a member in the context of speaking about school shootings which always end in a gun control debate on the DIS. It's also because I know the NRA has not been spoken favorably about in other threads by some posters so I could see where a conversation concerning whys behind a membership could spark not so nice talk. I know that's not where you were intending to go now so I think I was just thinking too many steps ahead :)

Absolutely, and that’s definitely not something I want to happen. I’ve only just joined, so I don’t want to end up getting into trouble for making political posts - I still have 6 months until I go to WDW and I need the advice!

Anyway, I have my answer and have learned something, so I think I will bow out now. :) Thanks again to everyone for the answers. I appreciate the willingness to discuss what is inevitably a complex and controversial subject.
 
This boy went after his ex girlfriend.

I think one problem is that we, as a society, lump all school shooting together. To find the real reasons, I think we need to look at each case seperately to figure out what was going on with THAT person.

Good point. This was not the same as a completely random bullet spray.
 
I believe they want this attention more than anything. For whatever reason, they feel small and insignificant.

I think you've hit on one of the biggest things right there! In a world where it's easier than ever to technically stay connected, I think a lot of people don't feel authentically connected at all.

Our culture has also become very accepting of violence. If you are younger, you probably have no idea of the shift. I don't think I saw a violent movie until I was about 14 years old. It was shocking to me. It was very sporadic that violence in entertainment (for me) was an odd occurrence. Now, everything I watch is pretty violent. Even sitcoms on networks are more violent now than just a few years ago. For a developing brain (even an old one), it's not good. It's worse for a troubled teen who is angry, because it almost seems acceptable to an immature person. I can feel how even I've become laid back about it.

I agree with this too. I know people are going to say "everyone should be able to tell the difference between entertainment and reality" but I think being surrounded by it so much does affect people.
 
I think you've hit on one of the biggest things right there! In a world where it's easier than ever to technically stay connected, I think a lot of people don't feel authentically connected at all.



I agree with this too. I know people are going to say "everyone should be able to tell the difference between entertainment and reality" but I think being surrounded by it so much does affect people.


It makes you kind of numb. This is sort of not related, but has anyone watch that limited series on Netflix called "The End of The ****ing World"? It's pretty dark.

One of the main two characters is a teenage boy who calls himself a sociopath or psychopath. He dreams of killing someone and you see him doing violent things on his own. I don't want to give the story away (because it actually turns out to be a very sad yet surprising thing with this character), but he ends up having to kill someone. And we he actually witnesses real violence on a human he doesn't handle it well at all. I think this character's portrayal is a lot of what is going on with troubled kids these days and how they *think* violence is the way to deal with something, or will solve their issues. I think back in the 70s and prior, it was infrequent that teens thought this way at all. It was random. It still is random, but the random is less-random now.
 
I think back in the 70s and prior, it was infrequent that teens thought this way at all. It was random. It still is random, but the random is less-random now.
Arguably though how do you actually know that? Times have changed in the ways of research, even caring about research, the reporting, etc.

I remember how far even talking about depression openly instead of it being the taboo topic you didn't talk about has come. PTSD as well. Even the research done on how it's common for people who do violent things start with animal cruelty.

I'm not really certain we'll ever know if it's just people's inner thoughts changing or we're just more open to hearing what used to not be talked about.
 
But as to the rest of it, I personally think its multiple things. I would say family situations, possibly. They haven't all been on anti depressants but maybe its that they needed to be? This boy went after his ex girlfriend.
.

And that is nothing new.
 
Arguably though how do you actually know that? Times have changed in the ways of research, even caring about research, the reporting, etc.

I remember how far even talking about depression openly instead of it being the taboo topic you didn't talk about has come. PTSD as well. Even the research done on how it's common for people who do violent things start with animal cruelty.

I'm not really certain we'll ever know if it's just people's inner thoughts changing or we're just more open to hearing what used to not be talked about.

True, I don't *really* know. Maybe everyone harbored these thoughts. Maybe they just act out more now. I think some of that goes back to the change in attitude. I know the 60s and 70s are portrayed as wild, loose times, but they really weren't. Girls still had to wear dresses to school, people were pretty uptight about a lot of things, and the sting of acting like an idiot in society has importance placed on it. I am not saying that "those were the good old days" because in many ways, they most certainly weren't. But there has been a laxity or breakdown in behavior that I think contributes to making people feel more free to express their aggressions. And they want notoriety for it.
 
True, I don't *really* know. Maybe everyone harbored these thoughts. Maybe they just act out more now. I think some of that goes back to the change in attitude. I know the 60s and 70s are portrayed as wild, loose times, but they really weren't. Girls still had to wear dresses to school, people were pretty uptight about a lot of things, and the sting of acting like an idiot in society has importance placed on it. I am not saying that "those were the good old days" because in many ways, they most certainly weren't. But there has been a laxity or breakdown in behavior that I think contributes to making people feel more free to express their aggressions. And they want notoriety for it.
On the notoriety that's honestly falling mostly on how we get our information. The amount of instant and bombarded way we get our information is actually quite astounding. I love having that information but with it comes consequences.

I can't argue that generationally speaking things shift and change but I'm not so certain I know what ramifications that actually has on the present situation.

I found an article from 2015 that talked about killers in the 1970s--you had Charles Manson et al, you had the Zodiac Killer who killed also in the late 60s, you had John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, you had Son of Sam, Hillside Strangler and Jim Jones.

I don't know how many serial killers are out there right now but perhaps it could be a shift in things that way. Each decade so to speak has had terrible terrible people. But I do think right now and has been for a few years the focus has zeroed in on schools and shootings or youths (teenaged or 20s) involved in shootings. You're probably not going to have wide-spread heated debated on serial killers nowadays.

I don't have anything to base my opinion on but I think in part we tend to look at things in a rose-colored tunnel vision in respects to the past and the present.
 
On the notoriety that's honestly falling mostly on how we get our information. The amount of instant and bombarded way we get our information is actually quite astounding. I love having that information but with it comes consequences.

I can't argue that generationally speaking things shift and change but I'm not so certain I know what ramifications that actually has on the present situation.

I found an article from 2015 that talked about killers in the 1970s--you had Charles Manson et al, you had the Zodiac Killer who killed also in the late 60s, you had John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, you had Son of Sam, Hillside Strangler and Jim Jones.

I don't know how many serial killers are out there right now but perhaps it could be a shift in things that way. Each decade so to speak has had terrible terrible people. But I do think right now and has been for a few years the focus has zeroed in on schools and shootings or youths (teenaged or 20s) involved in shootings. You're probably not going to have wide-spread heated debated on serial killers nowadays.

I don't have anything to base my opinion on but I think in part we tend to look at things in a rose-colored tunnel vision in respects to the past and the present.

I get what you're saying. Just wanted to point out that I actually don't view the past with rose-colored glasses. Lots of things are so much better for me now, especially as a woman, then the timeframe I grew up. The only thing I have really noted was a lack of politeness and respect by society as a whole. Not that people aren't respectful; they are. But the tone is certainly different.
 
First the gun used in the MD shooting was a hand gun so that sort of throws out the assumption by many that it is the gun. It also bring into the question of any new laws being effective as while the gun was owned by his father, HE could not legally own a gun.

But as to the rest of it, I personally think its multiple things. I would say family situations, possibly. They haven't all been on anti depressants but maybe its that they needed to be? This boy went after his ex girlfriend.

I think one problem is that we, as a society, lump all school shooting together. To find the real reasons, I think we need to look at each case seperately to figure out what was going on with THAT person. .

I was speaking about the change in frequency, not any specific shooting.
 

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