ROFR Thread July to Sept 2020 PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL

A2DisneyMom · Aug 8, 2020

ForWhomTheMouseTolls said:
Disney is using ROFR to feed the waitlist. If I were to call and ask for 150 points at VGF, they’d likely find the most attractive way to service that contract, take it from a prospective buyer and give it to me. Expect more of this as it’s a super simple way of making profit for them right now.

If so, we’ll likely see ROFR taking as long as possible. They’ll want to hold out as long as they can for a potential buyer for those points.

Brianstl · Aug 8, 2020

ForWhomTheMouseTolls said:
Disney is using ROFR to feed the waitlist. If I were to call and ask for 150 points at VGF, they’d likely find the most attractive way to service that contract, take it from a prospective buyer and give it to me. Expect more of this as it’s a super simple way of making profit for them right now.

Yes, clearing their waiting list is the easiest way for DVC to generate revenue quickly. We actually all should have seen this coming. My guess we will see another week or two of selected ROFR and then nothing for an extended period. They really can’t be adding many people to wait lists right now.

Brianstl · Aug 8, 2020

A2DisneyMom said:
If so, we’ll likely see ROFR taking as long as possible. They’ll want to hold out as long as they can for a potential buyer for those points.

Plus, it adds to the frustration of resale buyers and Disney can hope that drives them to direct.

I would suggest that anyone buying a resale contract demand a closing date as close to the 30 days required as the details of your purchase will allow.

Paul Stupin · Aug 8, 2020

John Purcell said:
Agree with you, they’re so cordial. However, the messages of prices going up in xx days, or you need to buy xxx points by this time before Blue Card benefits have point increases, or that they will crack down on renting points : While not high pressure, they are fear invoking folks into purchasing (now). Again, not fact, just my personal opinion....

Maybe. But I actually don’t think it’s fair to blame Disney if someone takes out a loan to buy a direct contract that maybe they shouldn’t have. We’re all adults here.

CastAStone · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
We actually all should have seen this coming.

I think what is unusual right now, besides everything else, is that DVC foreclosures filed with Orange County are way, way down vs normal. So Disney only has 1 option.

PS I assume this is due basically to staffing and won’t continue.

Paul Stupin · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
Plus, it adds to the frustration of resale buyers and Disney can hope that drives them to direct.

I would suggest that anyone buying a resale contract demand a closing date as close to the 30 days required as the details of your purchase will allow.

I don’t think that would do any good. Disney will take as long as they want for ROFR, and the title companies won’t issue closing docs until their decision comes through, even if it exceeds thirty days.

Brianstl · Aug 8, 2020

Paul Stupin said:
I don’t think that would do any good. Disney will take as long as they want for ROFR, and the title companies won’t issue closing docs until their decision comes through, even if it exceeds thirty days.

If you reach closing date Disney has waived ROFR. The original DVC contract documents state that. Title companies have no reason not to proceed and would put themselves in jeopardy if they decided not to.

CastAStone · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
If you reach closing date Disney has waived ROFR. The original DVC contract documents state that. Title companies have no reason not to proceed and would put themselves in jeopardy if they decided not to.

If I am not mistaken the problem is that they need Disney for estoppel to execute the closing.

Paul Stupin · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
If you reach closing date Disney has waived ROFR. The original DVC contract documents state that. Title companies have no reason not to proceed and would put themselves in jeopardy if they decided not to.

CastAStone is right. And title companies will not proceed until they get the estoppel. You can’t use the thirty day time frame to force a closure.

Brianstl · Aug 8, 2020

CastAStone said:
If I am not mistaken the problem is that they need Disney for estoppel to execute the closing.

That is true, but the title company can technically start the closing and Disney loses their ROFR rights. Disney loses the ability to find a buyer for those points beyond that date.

You won’t be sitting around for another 30 days before you know if Disney is going to take it or not. If they take you get back on the market sooner looking for a different contract. There is no reason to give Disney extra time to make their decision.

Paul Stupin · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
That is true, but the title company can technically start the closing and Disney loses their ROFR rights. Disney loses the ability to find a buyer for those points beyond that date.

You won’t be sitting around for another 30 days before you know if Disney is going to take it or not. If they take you get back on the market sooner looking for a different contract. There is no reason to give Disney extra time to make their decision.

There’s a difference between the title company being able to “technically start” and them actually doing it. My experience is that title companies will not start closing until they’ve heard from Disney, even if it takes longer than thirty days, especially now.
As has been remarked many times on these threads, Disney is not bound by the thirty day guideline. I’m not an expert on these matters, but I believe they can exercise their ROFR rights at pretty much any time during the process, and since they can still take a contract back right up until closing, the title companies don’t want to go to all that effort until Disney has weighed in. Personally, I don’t think you’ll succeed trying to outsmart Disney in these matters.

jbreen2010 · Aug 8, 2020

There were a handful of ROFR exercised and highlighted yesterday

CastAStone said:
Found it, thank you. With www.dvcstore.com as a DIS sponsor I assume it is OK to share this screenshot:

View attachment 516466

the above was DVCStores post.

MMT contract for SSR got snagged up yesterday and we were working through DVC Resale Market. The agent shares they did get a handful of ROFR exercises yesterday as well.

I asked if they recommended anything specific when putting together an offer and she didn’t really have much to note. I guess Disney will just look for a good deal once in a while similar to us all. (I.e. if we’re not looking at a contract that is stripped of points for next few years, Disney might not also be super excited to jump on that.)

All this said, we put in a new offer and has been accepted verbally, so will post the details when we sign on Monday.

Paul Stupin · Aug 8, 2020

The resale process is so long as it is, not sure I’d have the patience to endure the possibility that Disney would buy a contract back after having a lowball offer accepted. But, as has been remarked, they can‘t buy everything back.

ABE4DISNEY · Aug 8, 2020

poofyo101 said:
I was told 0 buy backs ever on poly. There was owner user here that had it bought back at the very beginning of poly dvc history but since then no reported cases.

ForWhomTheMouseTolls said:
Disney is using ROFR to feed the waitlist.

That's good to hear about the Poly...

HOWEVER, if you all are really my friends, none of you will be asking for 125 direct Poly points in the near future. :joker:

MICKIMINI · Aug 8, 2020

Personally, I would never make an offer giving a thought to ROFR. I've bought eight contracts resale and never lost one and all were what I would consider a good deal. The ones I worried most about was the three OKW I bought last year. Two were a bundle at $97 PP but it was loaded with '18 and '19 points, so I got 500 points for 50% of the MF's on '19, $0 on '18 and rented the majority bringing my PP down into the mid $80's. The sales rep whom I've worked with before and I were sure they would take them as they were big on OKW at the time, but they went through. The other was a 30 OKW for $80 and that went through too. Part of it is just luck. Statistically, the chances right now of losing a contract is extremely low but it will likely increase as the wheels get turning.

@ABE4DISNEY you "stole" that Poly LOL but I think you did it just in time! :rolleyes1

striker1064 · Aug 8, 2020

CastAStone said:
Poly was the last resort to fully sell out. When a resort fully sells out for the next several years DVC is dealing with a pile of foreclosures, auctions, and deed-in-lieu-of-foreclosures.

According to the Orange County records, Disney has "taken back" or won at foreclosure auction 133 Polynesian contracts this year without ROFRing a single one.

For comparison, Saratoga Springs, which is 3.5X the size of Poly, has had just 109 contracts taken year to date either by ROFR, foreclosure, auction, or deed-in-lieu-of-foreclosure

Edit: Here is the number of contracts Disney has acquired by any method (ROFR, auction, deed in lieu, etc) by resort since 1/1, plus a ratio comparing it to the size of the resort. Remember AKV and OKW are the 2 they were aggressively ROFRing in Q1.
View attachment 516530

Fascinating! Good info, this probably has a lot to do with it.

ForWhomTheMouseTolls said:
Disney is using ROFR to feed the waitlist. If I were to call and ask for 150 points at VGF, they’d likely find the most attractive way to service that contract, take it from a prospective buyer and give it to me. Expect more of this as it’s a super simple way of making profit for them right now.

This gets thrown around a lot in sort of conspiracy-theory-like tone, but over the past few years there's been absolutely no evidence that the direct waitlist has anything to do with ROFR. ROFR seems totally random and as far as anyone can tell, that department doesn't talk to anyone on the sales side.

If they did ROFR to fill waitlists, they'd never close waitlists in the first place. Resorts like BCV and GCV are either closed to waitlists or are years long, yet these resorts continue to pass ROFR. If they really exercised ROFR to fulfill waitlist requests, they would be taken a lot more often.

hlhlaw07 · Aug 8, 2020

Paul Stupin said:
There’s a difference between the title company being able to “technically start” and them actually doing it. My experience is that title companies will not start closing until they’ve heard from Disney, even if it takes longer than thirty days, especially now.
As has been remarked many times on these threads, Disney is not bound by the thirty day guideline. I’m not an expert on these matters, but I believe they can exercise their ROFR rights at pretty much any time during the process, and since they can still take a contract back right up until closing, the title companies don’t want to go to all that effort until Disney has weighed in. Personally, I don’t think you’ll succeed trying to outsmart Disney in these matters.

You are right, you are not an expert and yet you are putting out wrong information when someone is giving you correct information. If your closing is scheduled 30 days out, Disney’s ROFR right expires at 30 days. Whether the closing company decides to close on the scheduled day is a different matter, but the closing company’s failure to close because they are waiting on estoppel does not revive Disney’s expired ROFR.

The reason everyone says Disney is not bound by 30 days is because the default contract brokers use gives them longer than 30 days. In @brianstl’s scenario the contract provides a thirty day close. In that scenario, Disney is very much bound by 30 days. If they fail to make the decision in that time frame their right is waived.

Karrman · Aug 8, 2020

Karrman---$100-$9445-90-SSR-Aug-0/19, 0/20, 90/21, 90/22- sent 7/27

CastAStone · Aug 8, 2020

hlhlaw07 said:
You are right, you are not an expert and yet you are putting out wrong information when someone is giving you correct information. If your closing is scheduled 30 days out, Disney’s ROFR right expires at 30 days. Whether the closing company decides to close on the scheduled day is a different matter, but the closing company’s failure to close because they are waiting on estoppel does not revive Disney’s expired ROFR.

The reason everyone says Disney is not bound by 30 days is because the default contract brokers use gives them longer than 30 days. In @brianstl’s scenario the contract provides a thirty day close. In that scenario, Disney is very much bound by 30 days. If they fail to make the decision in that time frame their right is waived.

What happens if they refuse to run their part of estoppel until ROFR is waived?

poofyo101 · Aug 8, 2020

Brianstl said:
If you reach closing date Disney has waived ROFR. The original DVC contract documents state that. Title companies have no reason not to proceed and would put themselves in jeopardy if they decided not to.

The brokers won’t do it though. At least most the major ones will not.

ROFR Thread July to Sept 2020 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

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ROFR Thread July to Sept 2020 PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL