Another high school shooting, this time in MD

[kamik86]

My opinion on this is that there are two things that need to happen to make this problem better.

1) Is to do checks on everyone that is buying a gun.
2) is to fix our mental health system, because those that say people kill people are also right and it seems stupid to me to only focus on the weapon and not also on the fact that those that commit these crimes aren't mentally stable in a country that does a really really poor job of helping those that have mental conditions.

 

[Eureka]

This one shook DS up because it's in the next county over from us and he has been to that school for sports before, we are in the same athletic conference. To him, it's much more real than any others because he knows where it is in actual terms rather than the abstract. He texted me and DH as soon as he heard and then was giving us updates throughout the day. That is how I knew it was unsettling to him. Usually it's my other DS who's on his phone during the school day.

 

[Eureka]

I graduated from Great Mills High School and so did my children. It's located about three miles from my job. I feel extreme sadness for my whole community but extremely thankful more people were not hurt or killed.

Talk about close to home...I'm sorry. We are in Charles County and it still feels too close to me.

 

[robinb]

I would have look into it, I try not to make efforts to change laws without serious thought. It’s easy to see the possibility for any research to be politically or purposefully motivated which is if I’m remembering correctly is why then congressman Dickey proposed the bill.

I ask because you said:

My point is to think through laws before making them into law, not after their already signed.

I agree that our leaders do need to think before they leap but Congress doesn't "think" on anything without a research and/or a study. The Dickey Amendment prohibits the CDC from doing research that has to with gun control. A side effect of that is that they have done NO research into guns at all lest they violate that rule. How can we "think" about gun safely or gun control if the CDC, our public safely agency, is silenced and prohibited from doing research?

Here is an interesting interview with Rep. Dickey:
https://www.npr.org/2015/10/09/4470...rets-restrictive-law-on-gun-violence-research

IMO, the Dickey Amendment has to go first so research can be done and recommendations that are not pulled out of someone's ear or paid for by powerful lobbying group can be made.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Why would they put in an amendment that prohibits research on gun control? What was the purpose of that?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I ask because you said:



I agree that our leaders do need to think before they leap but Congress doesn't "think" on anything without a research and/or a study. The Dickey Amendment prohibits the CDC from doing research that has to with gun control. A side effect of that is that they have done NO research into guns at all lest they violate that rule. How can we "think" about gun safely or gun control if the CDC, our public safely agency, is silenced and prohibited from doing research?

Here is an interesting interview with Rep. Dickey:
https://www.npr.org/2015/10/09/4470...rets-restrictive-law-on-gun-violence-research

IMO, the Dickey Amendment has to go first so research can be done and recommendations that are not pulled out of someone's ear or paid for by powerful lobbying group can be made.

With the current calls ranging from more control to complete confiscation I’m not sure any study performed could be unbiased. I can start to see why it was inacted.

ETA- my initial response concerning thinking through laws was in response to a pp that said we should pass something and then let the courts sort it out.

 

[kamik86]

Why would they put in an amendment that prohibits research on gun control? What was the purpose of that?

I can think of three reasons this could get through.
1) Someone wants to make sure thsi isn't looked at (lobbys?)
2) Someone was concerned that the CDC would "waste" too much money on this instead of other topics
3) They were supposed to be defining what gov group A does vs gov group B. Then group B was defunded and no one ever changed the restriction on A.

 

[erin1715]

My opinion on this is that there are two things that need to happen to make this problem better.

1) Is to do checks on everyone that is buying a gun.
2) is to fix our mental health system, because those that say people kill people are also right and it seems stupid to me to only focus on the weapon and not also on the fact that those that commit these crimes aren't mentally stable in a country that does a really really poor job of helping those that have mental conditions.

I agree with both of your points. However, if we had a clear answer about how to fix the mental health system, that would help. Even psychiatrists and psychologists cannot often clearly diagnose and treat an individual with mental health problems. I'm not sure that throwing more money at the mental health system is going to stop this problem. We need to stop the bleeding (I apologize for the wording) now - and the most immediate action we can take is putting officers in the schools and metal detectors. Then let's have the discussion about gun control and mental health.

 

[kamik86]

I agree with both of your points. However, if we had a clear answer about how to fix the mental health system, that would help. Even psychiatrists and psychologists cannot often clearly diagnose and treat an individual with mental health problems. I'm not sure that throwing more money at the mental health system is going to stop this problem. We need to stop the bleeding (I apologize for the wording) now - and the most immediate action we can take is putting officers in the schools and metal detectors. Then let's have the discussion about gun control and mental health.

Agree that fixing mental health is a more long term solution. That doesn't mean we shouldn't start.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Why would they put in an amendment that prohibits research on gun control? What was the purpose of that?

Here often research can and often does becomes very politically driven and it’s thought that the findings can basically be whatever the person funding it wants them to represent. So a congressman entered an amendment to stop politically driven research.

 

[robinb]

With the current calls ranging from more control to complete confiscation I’m not sure any study performed could be unbiased. I can start to see why it was inacted.

ETA- my initial response concerning thinking through laws was in response to a pp that said we should pass something and then let the courts sort it out.

I don't think there is such a thing as "unbiased". The Dickey Amendment certainly was not. It was put in place to silence a specific group.

Personally, I would like to have research and studies so we can go about addressing gun violence in a scientific manner. Unfortunately, with the Dickey Amendment in place there is no other option to break through the road block against legislation addressing gun violence than to pass something and let the courts sort it out. That kind of thing happens all the time so it's not like the process is rare or unheard of.

I understand that you support the status quo so no change would be in your best interest. Many of the rest of us, including the kids who are marching in Saturday, are ready for a change.

 

[Carole]

This one shook DS up because it's in the next county over from us and he has been to that school for sports before, we are in the same athletic conference. To him, it's much more real than any others because he knows where it is in actual terms rather than the abstract. He texted me and DH as soon as he heard and then was giving us updates throughout the day. That is how I knew it was unsettling to him. Usually it's my other DS who's on his phone during the school day.

It's hard on all the students. I spoke with a Chopticon parent today. Her daughter is very upset.

 

[Tigger in a kilt]

I’ll just stay home this Saturday and take the opportunity to renew my NRA membership.

This is a genuine question, though I appreciate that you may not want to answer (or it may breach the “no politics” rules). I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA, if you wouldn’t mind sharing. I have never “met” anyone before who could answer this, and it is something I have always wondered. Thank you.

I’m a Brit, so I don’t want to get into the entire debate, as I don’t feel it’s my place. I hope that some common ground can be found so that changes can be made that can prevent, or at least limit, these tragedies from happening.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

This is a genuine question, though I appreciate that you may not want to answer (or it may breach the “no politics” rules). I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA, if you wouldn’t mind sharing. I have never “met” anyone before who could answer this, and it is something I have always wondered. Thank you.

I’m a Brit, so I don’t want to get into the entire debate, as I don’t feel it’s my place. I hope that some common ground can be found so that changes can be made that can prevent, or at least limit, these tragedies from happening.

I'm not who you quoted, but I can tell you that my father was a member for the firearm insurance. And the legal help with questions and defense.

 

[Tigger in a kilt]

I'm not who you quoted, but I can tell you that my father was a member for the firearm insurance. And the legal help with questions and defense.

I can definitely see the benefit of those services. Thank you for replying.

 

[GreatLakes]

The thing I am curious about is why all of a sudden we have this huge uptick in these shootings. What is the variable that changed? It isn't the guns? If we talk specifically about the AR-15 it became available in 1963 while the AWB came into effect in 1994. That is 30 years of this gun being as easy to acquire, if not easier, as it is now without school shooting after school shooting. Hunting firearms have been available even longer yet school shootings are a new phenomenon. Even Columbine was isolated and didn't have another shooting the week after that and the week after that.

I don't think there is a significantly higher incidence of mental health issues now than there was in the past. The 1970's and 1980's for example didn't have, as far as I know, any vastly different number of people suffering from these mental health issues but school shootings weren't common and both decades pre-date the AWB that was in place between 1994 and 2004 so I don't think it was strictly mental health either.

That leaves environmental variables but what are they? Anti-depressants, something in our diet, family situations, what?

Any good experiment controls all variables and only changes the one being tested. What is that one variable that has changed in the last decade? This isn't an anti or pro gun question, it is a legitimate curiosity as to what all of a sudden snapped and caused there to be this hockey-stick shaped uptick in school shootings?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is a genuine question, though I appreciate that you may not want to answer (or it may breach the “no politics” rules). I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA, if you wouldn’t mind sharing. I have never “met” anyone before who could answer this, and it is something I have always wondered. Thank you.

I’m a Brit, so I don’t want to get into the entire debate, as I don’t feel it’s my place. I hope that some common ground can be found so that changes can be made that can prevent, or at least limit, these tragedies from happening.

I would think it's like any membership to any entity. There are benefits to it.

I belong to AAA (American Automobile Association) which entitles me to a variety of benefits, discounts being included. I know my husband has looked into signing up for the National Society of Professional Engineers ever since he got his P.E. license.

There is also for some belonging because they support the overall cause. Joining the ASPCA for example may not be important to you for the free t-shirt or tote bag they may offer, etc it may just be supporting the cause.

Just because the person belongs to the NRA doesn't mean it should be treated any differently than any other entity out there that has a membership base. I'm not saying that towards you personally just as a general comment.

 

[Tigger in a kilt]

I would think it's like any membership to any entity. There are benefits to it.

I belong to AAA (American Automobile Association) which entitles me to a variety of benefits, discounts being included. I know my husband has looked into signing up for the National Society of Professional Engineers ever since he got his P.E. license.

There is also for some belonging because they support the overall cause. Joining the ASPCA for example may not be important to you for the free t-shirt or tote bag they may offer, etc it may just be supporting the cause.

Just because the person belongs to the NRA doesn't mean it should be treated any differently than any other entity out there that has a membership base. I'm not saying that towards you personally just as a general comment.

That was my question though: what does membership get you? If my car breaks down then the Automobile Association fixes it or tows it to a garage for repair. Professional organisations I belong to give me professional accreditation and run professional development courses, plus allow for networking. I’m sure there are charities here that offer memberships, but I have only come across ones that just ask for regular donations, rather than membership, per se.

From the first reply, it sounds like the NRA offers services that would be of particular interest to gun owners - firearm insurance and legal advice. That’s pretty much the answer I was looking for. It’s not an organisation that I’m familiar with, so I was curious. It also sounds like membership to various organisations gives you more in terms of discounts than is the case in the UK, so that’s not something I had considered.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That was my question though: what does membership get you? If my car breaks down then the Automobile Association fixes it or tows it to a garage for repair. Professional organisations I belong to give me professional accreditation and run professional development courses, plus allow for networking. I’m sure there are charities here that offer memberships, but I have only come across ones that just ask for regular donations, rather than membership, per se.

From the first reply, it sounds like the NRA offers services that would be of particular interest to gun owners - firearm insurance and legal advice. That’s pretty much the answer I was looking for. It’s not an organisation that I’m familiar with, so I was curious. It also sounds like membership to various organisations gives you more in terms of discounts than is the case in the UK, so that’s not something I had considered.

Gotcha. It just sounded like from your question " I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA" that there may have been more into it than what was written given the thread topic is a school shooting rather than memberships in general. In the end if any poster simply said "I agree with their cause" what would it being the NRA have to do with it? given that people join a variety of memberships because they agree/support their cause. Or people join a variety of memberships because of the benefits included. I guess I was trying to say I didn't understand why NRA was singled out (though I know you were coming at it from a respectful manner).

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

This is a genuine question, though I appreciate that you may not want to answer (or it may breach the “no politics” rules). I am curious as to why you are a NRA member. I understand being a gun owner, but I’m specifically curious about your reason for taking that extra step of joining the NRA, if you wouldn’t mind sharing. I have never “met” anyone before who could answer this, and it is something I have always wondered. Thank you.

I’m a Brit, so I don’t want to get into the entire debate, as I don’t feel it’s my place. I hope that some common ground can be found so that changes can be made that can prevent, or at least limit, these tragedies from happening.

For me the most important reason is that they are the biggest Pro 2nd Amendment group, they are the biggest dog on the block defending my rights. Their are others but not as well known and therefore not as vilified so you probably never hear about them. They also do offer legal advise with concerns to firearms, and they also are huge into promoting firearms safety with classes all over the US. Any questions feel free to ask.
ETA- there’s also the magazine subscription with membership. They have reviews of new products, they talk about techniques, it also has a section each month that highlights legal uses of firearms by law abiding citizens in self defense situations. This is something that gets me whenever other posters act as if self defensive use of firearms are so rare.