Boarding groups - Any thoughts/rumors on when this might end?

[hertamaniac]

It does make sense and I 100% agree that we shouldn't accept the BG process as a satisfactory alternative to a well performing ride or that it fully makes up for the unreliability - to me it is the best of a less than stellar situation.

I think the questions is, what was the best choice for Disney to make knowing this. Let's say they could either open the ride on the date indicated knowing it would work but not reliably, or take another 6 months and then it would run at an acceptable performance level. That is great for the people that weren't going until that later date, but in the mean time there would have been tens of thousands of people that could have ridden that didn't. I know a lot of the unfortunate situations get air time, but in reality the vast majority of people that are there for park opening get to ride.

Not sure there is a definitely right answer but as someone who was able to ride and likely won't be back for more than a year, I am very happy they opened it when they did.

Glad to see your vision of BGs is a stop gap and not a long-term solution for us.

Second, I am jealous and happy that you got to ride. I mean that in a complimentary fashion as I know how much you and the family looked forward to it (I take our shot next Wednesday when the crowd calendars are 11/10 for HS).

As far as part two of your comments, we've circled these wagons before. Where you say they need another 6 months to scope out the project to a reliable schedule and execution, I view it as start the project 6 months earlier and avoid the situation, altogether. Of all the PM jobs I've worked on, this is the prime area of stagnation. It's planning vs. go and recover as you go (i.e. progressive elaboration) that has stymied most of my projects. I will share my projects were generally 30-70M dollars and composed of 30-60 members (mostly engineers).

I employ you to do a cursory look at Agile/Scrum with a sprint project management approach. I am more of a waterfall schedule graduate, but a good PM team can use sprints as a hybrid approach to fast-track projects. The downside? Higher risk and costs.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Glad to see your vision of BGs is a stop gap and not a long-term solution for us.

Second, I am jealous and happy that you got to ride. I mean that in a complimentary fashion as I know how much you and the family looked forward to it (I take our shot next Wednesday when the crowd calendars are 11/10 for HS).

As far as part two of your comments, we've circled these wagons before. Where you say they need another 6 months to scope out the project to a reliable schedule and execution, I view it as start the project 6 months earlier and avoid the situation, altogether. Of all the PM jobs I've worked on, this is the prime area of stagnation. It's planning vs. go and recover as you go (i.e. progressive elaboration) that has stymied most of my projects. I will share my projects were generally 30-70M dollars and composed of 30-60 members (mostly engineers).

I employ you to do a cursory look at Agile/Scrum with a sprint project management approach. I am more of a waterfall schedule graduate, but a good PM team can use sprints as a hybrid approach to fast-track projects. The downside? Higher risk and costs.

Ok, but even if they said from the start it was determined that 6 months more were needed and instead management pushed them to open earlier you still have tens of thousands of more people that will have ridden in this 6 months. I know you say start the project 6 months earlier but they literally started working on this/thinking of it the day they acquired Lucas - and the initial plans were seemed not large enough/creative enough/pushing the boundaries enough by management ... Just don't see how they could have started earlier - more realistic response was to push out.

And I tend to prefer waterfall schedules as well (though with loop backs to check and re-evaluate). Have done some "Sprints" as well I guess, we called them "pop up teams" though - but trying to quickly get a solution accomplished (I led one last year ... Though the scope for expanded during process so maybe I am not a good leader at them)

 

[mshanson3121]

What are your thoughts on BGs just as a form of virtual queue in general though? I would love if they implemented them for FoP (in addition to having FP, just instead of a long standby queue)

Only if they make them available throughout the day. If they release them all first thing in the morning it's a) unfair to those who can't get there early (if they're doing earlier than normal hours) b ) it's just going to create a mess at rope drop at any park offering it.

 

[mshanson3121]

It does make sense and I 100% agree that we shouldn't accept the BG process as a satisfactory alternative to a well performing ride or that it fully makes up for the unreliability - to me it is the best of a less than stellar situation.

I think the questions is, what was the best choice for Disney to make knowing this. Let's say they could either open the ride on the date indicated knowing it would work but not reliably, or take another 6 months and then it would run at an acceptable performance level. That is great for the people that weren't going until that later date, but in the mean time there would have been tens of thousands of people that could have ridden that didn't. I know a lot of the unfortunate situations get air time, but in reality the vast majority of people that are there for park opening get to ride.

Not sure there is a definitely right answer but as someone who was able to ride and likely won't be back for more than a year, I am very happy they opened it when they did.

Both situations would have/did result in the exact same thing - many thousands who haven't been able to ride it. I think in general scenario A would have been best. They would have been disappointed it wasn't open, but that would have been the extent of it. I think the BG generates more frustration, because people know it's because the ride isn't operating well. There's also more frustration knowing you got up at the crack of dawn, waited in crushing crowds - for nothing.

 

[Remy is Up]

Only if they make them available throughout the day. If they release them all first thing in the morning it's a) unfair to those who can't get there early (if they're doing earlier than normal hours) b ) it's just going to create a mess at rope drop at any park offering it.

Fair is just a state of mind each individual sets for themselves and one of the most overused phrases in society right now. Rules or processes do not care about someones perception of fair. They do what is best for the company to manage labor, costs, safety, and such and have no concern about fairness. Once you understand fair is just your own perception and that life doesnt work that way, youll find yourself more relaxed about things.

 

[Remy is Up]

It does make sense and I 100% agree that we shouldn't accept the BG process as a satisfactory alternative to a well performing ride or that it fully makes up for the unreliability - to me it is the best of a less than stellar situation.

I think the questions is, what was the best choice for Disney to make knowing this. Let's say they could either open the ride on the date indicated knowing it would work but not reliably, or take another 6 months and then it would run at an acceptable performance level. That is great for the people that weren't going until that later date, but in the mean time there would have been tens of thousands of people that could have ridden that didn't. I know a lot of the unfortunate situations get air time, but in reality the vast majority of people that are there for park opening get to ride.

Not sure there is a definitely right answer but as someone who was able to ride and likely won't be back for more than a year, I am very happy they opened it when they did.

Disney doesnt care what you think you should or shouldnt "accept". AT the end of the day, people complaining about BGs are the vocal minority while for the majority, the system works fine because that is how they rolled it out and that is what they know. As someone who has been around has had APs for a long time out of state and now resident, I was there for FoP opening and have dealt with that madness, 7DMT, etc etc. When Strollers were knocking people down and hitting them because people are inherently selfish. We didnt have that with RotR. Id rather know by 8AM, Im not getting on that today and go about my day. So you can debate the merits of how they opened the attraction, when they opened it, if BGs are good for you, etc. But, the company did what made the most sense and your critique of their solution, doesnt mean a thing.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Disney doesnt care what you think you should or shouldnt "accept". AT the end of the day, people complaining about BGs are the vocal minority while for the majority, the system works fine because that is how they rolled it out and that is what they know. As someone who has been around has had APs for a long time out of state and now resident, I was there for FoP opening and have dealt with that madness, 7DMT, etc etc. When Strollers were knocking people down and hitting them because people are inherently selfish. We didnt have that with RotR. Id rather know by 8AM, Im not getting on that today and go about my day. So you can debate the merits of how they opened the attraction, when they opened it, if BGs are good for you, etc. But, the company did what made the most sense and your critique of their solution, doesnt mean a thing.

Guess I am not wording things correctly as I am fully supportive of the BG system and would like to see it expand to more rides - so not critiquing the solution at all

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Both situations would have/did result in the exact same thing - many thousands who haven't been able to ride it. I think in general scenario A would have been best. They would have been disappointed it wasn't open, but that would have been the extent of it. I think the BG generates more frustration, because people know it's because the ride isn't operating well. There's also more frustration knowing you got up at the crack of dawn, waited in crushing crowds - for nothing.

But the people getting "nothing" are the minor minority ... On almost every day if you were there just 5 minutes before park opening you would get to ride that day

And there are crowds, not sure about "crushing" though - we found everything quite pleasant and people were in good moods and all walked calmly after rope drop etc

It was all about 1000x better than the "running of the bulls" we experienced trying to get the old paper fast passes for Toy Story Midway Mania

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Only if they make them available throughout the day. If they release them all first thing in the morning it's a) unfair to those who can't get there early (if they're doing earlier than normal hours) b ) it's just going to create a mess at rope drop at any park offering it.

Personally I think throughout the day is worse as now you have multiple times trying to get a reduced number of BGs each time.

I do think if they are going to open the park early they should have easier transport to the park (e.g., open the Skyliner earlier) - and personally I would keep the park open later vs the early open that is before the other parks opening but I assume they have their reasons and access to data and info I don't

 

[rteetz]

Personally I think throughout the day is worse as now you have multiple times trying to get a reduced number of BGs each time.

I do think if they are going to open the park early they should have easier transport to the park (e.g., open the Skyliner earlier) - and personally I would keep the park open later vs the early open that is before the other parks opening but I assume they have their reasons and access to data and info I don't

Yeah releasing them throughout the day would create more of a mess. You'd have people standing around all day trying to get them. Imagine someone not getting a BG at any of the drop times and the outrage that would cause. "I spent my whole day in this park trying to get one...!"

 

[SaintsManiac]

Well someone on Facebook says there will be FP by November so there ya go.

 

[mshanson3121]

Yeah releasing them throughout the day would create more of a mess. You'd have people standing around all day trying to get them. Imagine someone not getting a BG at any of the drop times and the outrage that would cause. "I spent my whole day in this park trying to get one...!"

Common sense alone says this is false. Most of the people are still going to go about their day, going on rides, seeing shows etc... Would there be frustration if they don't get one? I'm sure. But most people aren't going to see it as a waste of a day like you insinuate, unless you're talking about disboarders, who aren't the representative normal Disney guest, anyways.

 

[rteetz]

Common sense alone says this is false. Most of the people are still going to go about their day, going on rides, seeing shows etc... Would there be frustration if they don't get one? I'm sure. But most people aren't going to see it as a waste of a day like you insinuate, unless you're talking about disboarders, who aren't the representative normal Disney guest, anyways.

You still have to be in the park in order to get one. Of course people aren't going to stand in one spot and not do anything all day. However with the current procedure you can at least leave if you do or don't get a BG.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Common sense alone says this is false. Most of the people are still going to go about their day, going on rides, seeing shows etc... Would there be frustration if they don't get one? I'm sure. But most people aren't going to see it as a waste of a day like you insinuate, unless you're talking about disboarders, who aren't the representative normal Disney guest, anyways.

There will always be people complaining, whether they post on the DIS or not. I've seen some real pieces of work giving CMs a hard time over the most trivial things.

Nothing will ever make everyone happy.

 

[mshanson3121]

But the people getting "nothing" are the minor minority ... On almost every day if you were there just 5 minutes before park opening you would get to ride that day

HS has a capacity of somewhere around 70,000. Let's assume they're getting half of that right now, so 35,000, which given the crowd levels lately, and the busy spring season ahead, is probably a decent number to use. ROTR has a capacity of ~1700 an hour. Obviously it's not reaching that, but let's say they're getting 1200 an hour. Let's use the current 12 hour park day. That's a total of 14,400 riders. Not even half of the people in attendance. Even if they get up to 1700, and are able to run non-stop for 12 hours, that's still only 20,400.

Now, obviously, not everyone going to the park is even trying for a boarding group. Not everyone is showing up at rope drop, either. But, to say the people getting nothing are the "minor minority", isn't exactly accurate. There are complaints all over the place of people attending rope drop, being online the second they pass in the through the gates, NOT getting a boarding group.

 

[mshanson3121]

You still have to be in the park in order to get one. Of course people aren't going to stand in one spot and not do anything all day. However with the current procedure you can at least leave if you do or don't get a BG.

Most traditional guests aren't park hoppers. So for the average, non-Disboard or Florida-resident guest, staying in the park all day is a non-issue, because they would have been there anyways.

 

[rteetz]

Most traditional guests aren't park hoppers. So for the average, non-Disboard or Florida-resident guest, staying in the park all day is a non-issue, because they would have been there anyways.

Every way you go about this there is an issue. Like the PP you cannot make everyone happy. Releasing them throughout the day does not make this any better.

I would think it would make it worse from Disney's viewpoint not only complaints but ride operations. If the ride is down do you not release that next set of BGs? If you do are they regular or backup boarding groups? Right now their best option is at park opening release them all. First come first served.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Every way you go about this there is an issue. Like the PP you cannot make everyone happy. Releasing them throughout the day does not make this any better.

I would think it would make it worse from Disney's viewpoint not only complaints but ride operations. If the ride is down do you not release that next set of BGs? If you do are they regular or backup boarding groups? Right now their best option is at park opening release them all. First come first served.

The early bird always gets the worm at WDW.

 

[mshanson3121]

I would think it would make it worse from Disney's viewpoint not only complaints but ride operations. If the ride is down do you not release that next set of BGs? If you do are they regular or backup boarding groups? Right now their best option is at park opening release them all. First come first served.

We are discussing the hypothetical situation of using boarding groups permanently, for new, popular rides, that are functioning reliably. Not the situation right now. So basically, dropping boarding groups wouldn't be that much different than dropping FP+ throughout the day.

 

[rteetz]

We are discussing the hypothetical situation of using boarding groups permanently, for new, popular rides, that are functioning reliably. Not the situation right now. So basically, dropping boarding groups wouldn't be that much different than dropping FP+ throughout the day.

Thats not the point of this thread.