Choosing to stay during a mandatory evacuation

[Colleen27]

This is just poor planning. If you live in an area where natural disasters are a danger you know there is the possibility you will have to evacuate with little notice. If you live in an area where hurricanes can hit the laws of probability will tell you they may hit during your life. If you have a pet you know that in the case of an evacuation you will want to take them with you. Knowing these two things it makes sense to be prepared for it. Have any record you may need in the case of an evacuation in a single spot where you can just grab them. If those records include your shot records have them with you. Keep the shots up to date even if you normally wouldn't so you are prepared. In this day and age of electronic documents this can be as simple as a flash drive with all your up to date documents on it.

If you live in an area unlikely to be hit by a natural disaster you can be more lax but with the increased occurrences of wildfires I think there are very few people who truly live somewhere unlikely to be evacuated for some reason.

These are the things I made sure to think of when I lived in a place likely to be hit by a hurricane. I had a small portable fireproof safe with any document I may need and a complete backup of my computer just in case. It just seems like good planning. Does no one take the time to plan out possible emergencies? Do you not have fire and tornado drills with your kids at home? Every year when we run our business continuity DR tests at work I set up one at home.

Knowing those things doesn't help if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck and needed to use the vet money to fix the car, though, or if you planned ahead to have the documents available in the cloud only to lose access to the internet before they're checked. A lot of the chatter when these things happen comes from a very settled, relatively comfortable place where people just can't imagine the difference between $10-a-dose DIY vaccines and $100-a-pet vet vaccines being a budget buster, or that the mental clutter that comes from chronic stress might result in a less-than-perfectly-ordered environment.

I'm guessing from your screen name that you're pretty familiar with plenty of places where evacuation would be virtually unheard of. I'm in semi-rural Michigan, in the bottom part of the Thumb. I suppose in the extreme flooding could be an issue, though I'm not aware of serious/life threatening flooding in my community's history; the high water records in my lifetime have been water-in-the-basement floods, not cars being swept away and people taking refuge in their attics. There's no wildfire risk, no hurricane risk, no earthquakes. So I'll admit to being pretty lax about emergency preparedness. We did some fire drills when we first moved to this house, mostly as it relates to getting to a safe place at a designated neighbor's home and trusting the adults to handle getting the animals to safety, but that's as much as we've ever done.

 

[LSUmiss]

If you want to take your dogs with you in the case of an evacuation then you pony up the cash to have a vet come do the shots. Can't help with livestock and horses but the majority of people that use their pets as an excuse have a dog, cat, rabbit, or fish. All of that is easy to plan around and having a plan around. If you have your pets up to date on shots, which I think is a mandatory part of pet ownership, it is easy and costs nothing to know where the records are at all times and/or to store them in the cloud electrically so they can be retrieved.

You clearly have no experience with the population that many are talking about. Feel lucky that you are in a position to be so judgmental.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

if you planned ahead to have the documents available in the cloud only to lose access to the internet before they're checked

Which can happen. I still think calling your vet if you used a vet to get the records seems pretty manageable and perhaps a digital as well as physical copy would be the way to go.

 

[tex1989]

I always find it interesting that threads of this nature always wind up going down a rabbit hole and wind up focusing far away from the topic at hand. Okay some folks will use their pets as an excuse not to evacuate, others say it's money while others say it is because of people just not being smart. The list goes on. The reality, a reality that many of us have faced and others have not is that until you are faced with the decision you don't know how you will react. Yes in the end it should be all about protecting lives because everything else can be replaced, you cannot. That should be the decision point, nothing else. But what if you live 30 miles from the coast? You have never flooded in your current home of 25 years but you are keenly aware that in the aftermath of the storm you will be cut off. No services, no power, no food sources except what you started with, and no water. It's a big one, winds can hit 100 mph. You also know that once you leave you will not be allowed back for as much as a week after the storm. A week of not knowing if you have anything worth returning to.

So many of the decisions have nothing to do with vaccinations, or money, or any of that, but more to do with the things you have worked for your entire life and a life altering situation that somewhere, somehow in the back of your mind says over and over again that if you stay you can protect those things and make the final outcome better.

That is the decision, that is the struggle, that is where the hard decisions come from. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[luvsJack]

If you want to take your dogs with you in the case of an evacuation then you pony up the cash to have a vet come do the shots. Can't help with livestock and horses but the majority of people that use their pets as an excuse have a dog, cat, rabbit, or fish. All of that is easy to plan around and having a plan around. If you have your pets up to date on shots, which I think is a mandatory part of pet ownership, it is easy and costs nothing to know where the records are at all times and/or to store them in the cloud electrically so they can be retrieved.

Your first statement is not realistic. Someone has 5 hunting dogs. He isn't going to spend $1000 getting their shots because there "MIGHT" be a storm "POSSIBLY" in the life time of the dog that they "MAY" have to evacuate for, "POSSIBLY". I mean I am just saying how they will look at it. Being up to date on shots and having a record from the vet are not the same thing. And you aren't taking into consideration that evacuation isn't a yearly thing, or every other year or even once every ten years. Some places in "hurricane prone areas" may not EVER evacuate, most aren't very often.

Since there is a huge amount of rural areas in the southern part of this state, there are in fact a large number of people who do not evacuate because of horses and large animals. There are some shelters set up for these animals (we have one down the road) but there aren't enough of them.

 

[luvsJack]

I always find it interesting that threads of this nature always wind up going down a rabbit hole and wind up focusing far away from the topic at hand. Okay some folks will use their pets as an excuse not to evacuate, others say it's money while others say it is because of people just not being smart. The list goes on. The reality, a reality that many of us have faced and others have not is that until you are faced with the decision you don't know how you will react. Yes in the end it should be all about protecting lives because everything else can be replaced, you cannot. That should be the decision point, nothing else. But what if you live 30 miles from the coast? You have never flooded in your current home of 25 years but you are keenly aware that in the aftermath of the storm you will be cut off. No services, no power, no food sources except what you started with, and no water. It's a big one, winds can hit 100 mph. You also know that once you leave you will not be allowed back for as much as a week after the storm. A week of not knowing if you have anything worth returning to.

So many of the decisions have nothing to do with vaccinations, or money, or any of that, but more to do with the things you have worked for your entire life and a life altering situation that somewhere, somehow in the back of your mind says over and over again that if you stay you can protect those things and make the final outcome better.

That is the decision, that is the struggle, that is where the hard decisions come from. Everything else is just window dressing.

This is so true. We weren't ordered to leave in Katrina but all of the things you mentioned were what went through our heads when we were trying to decide. You don't know how hard it will be to get back, you don't know what you will find when you get back, you don't know for sure what you will do UNTIL you can get back. Its not this easy choice that some here want it to be.

its simply to say "nothing is worth your life" when you are sitting in great weather and there is no threat. But when everything you have worked for and struggled for and sacrificed for is in danger, its a whole 'nother story. .

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And you aren't taking into consideration that evacuation isn't a yearly thing, or every other year or even once every ten years. Some places in "hurricane prone areas" may not EVER evacuate, most aren't very often.

That's why I mentioned about getting vet records at the start of hurricane season. Hopefully the documentation once you've gotten it doesn't get lost again so it wouldn't necessarily need to be an every year occurance so much as a 'this is where my important documents are' situation which would be handy for much more than a evacuation.

 

[luvsJack]

That's why I mentioned about getting vet records at the start of hurricane season. Hopefully the documentation once you've gotten it doesn't get lost again so it wouldn't necessarily need to be an every year occurance so much as a 'this is where my important documents are' situation which would be handy for much more than a evacuation.

That is a fine idea for those who HAVE documentation. You still aren't considering the large number of people who vaccinate their dogs themselves.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is a fine idea for those who HAVE documentation. You still aren't considering the large number of people who vaccinate their dogs themselves.

You need to re-read my comments on it. For goodness sake I said repeatedly "for those who go to a vet"!

ETA: My previous comment:

I couldn't tell you where all my cat's stuff is. I know it's somewhere and sometime last year I tried to keep them together..but as to where they are now is anyone's guess lol. I think they are in our office as well. When our vet does the rabies they do give the tag part for a collar with the paperwork but I don't have a collar on my cat.

But I do think if you've done it at the vet more than likely you can call that vet and get a copy of the shots they've received over the years as part of their records. I don't live on the coasts so I can't speak with certainty but I would think if you (general you) actually know your pet would need medical records in the event of an evacuation and you've done it at the vet it might not be a bad idea to call and get a copy prior to the start of hurricane season and place it in a safe spot with other important documents you may also need.

I don't fault people for losing track of documentation as I've def done it myself...more like everyday lol it's a struggle at my house. But I do think calling the vet for a record of their shots is something manageable to do for preparedness.

Which can happen. I still think calling your vet if you used a vet to get the records seems pretty manageable and perhaps a digital as well as physical copy would be the way to go.

 

[yoopermom]

For those PP who can't seem to comprehend not taking their dogs to the vet, should folks too poor to afford a vet not have pets? Rabies is the only vaccination that legally has to be given by a vet in our state. However, I've given MANY dogs their shots, bought by me at TSC for a few dollars, because their owner can't afford to take them to the vet for routine care. I show them how to do it (it's really not hard), and the owner keeps the receipt and vaccine box as "proof", and do it themselves from there on out. I do NOT blame the local vet for her prices, but if it's pay food/utilities/rent, vs a $150 vet bill....well, most folks make the practical choice.

I've also worked hard to bring low cost spay/neuter clinics to the area.

PLEASE don't judge, until you've walked a mile in their (worn out) shoes.

Terri

 

[luvsJack]

For those PP who can't seem to comprehend not taking their dogs to the vet, should folks too poor to afford a vet not have pets? Rabies is the only vaccination that legally has to be given by a vet in our state. However, I've given MANY dogs their shots, bought by me at TSC for a few dollars, because their owner can't afford to take them to the vet for routine care. I show them how to do it (it's really not hard), and the owner keeps the receipt and vaccine box as "proof", and do it themselves from there on out. I do NOT blame the local vet for her prices, but if it's pay food/utilities/rent, vs a $150 vet bill....well, most folks make the practical choice.

I've also worked hard to bring low cost spay/neuter clinics to the area.

PLEASE don't judge, until you've walked a mile in their (worn out) shoes.

Terri

Ok so there is a way to prove they have had the shots! Way back somewhere I. This thread, I wondered about that.

And I totally agree with you. It’s not a matter of not taking care of their animals, it’s just doing it at a price they can afford.

Add to that the large number of farmers that vaccinate their own large animals and it just seems logical to them to do the same for their dogs.

 

[LSUmiss]

For those PP who can't seem to comprehend not taking their dogs to the vet, should folks too poor to afford a vet not have pets? Rabies is the only vaccination that legally has to be given by a vet in our state. However, I've given MANY dogs their shots, bought by me at TSC for a few dollars, because their owner can't afford to take them to the vet for routine care. I show them how to do it (it's really not hard), and the owner keeps the receipt and vaccine box as "proof", and do it themselves from there on out. I do NOT blame the local vet for her prices, but if it's pay food/utilities/rent, vs a $150 vet bill....well, most folks make the practical choice.

I've also worked hard to bring low cost spay/neuter clinics to the area.

PLEASE don't judge, until you've walked a mile in their (worn out) shoes.

Terri

And many of those ppl have pets the ppl wouldn’t otherwise want. It’s mostly pets they find. Most of them aren’t ppl buying dogs from a breeder or even going to a shelter. So it’s die on the street or have someone do the best they can to care for them.

 

[tzolkin]

I may have missed it, but I don’t believe anyone has mentioned that it is possible that some people do not evacuate because they fear losing their job.

In many states it is legal for an employer to fire employees for not showing up for work regardless of whether there is a declared state of emergency or evacuation of the area.

Most employers don’t because it’s bad press and just generally an awful thing to do, but they are legally allowed to do so.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I may have missed it, but I don’t believe anyone has mentioned that it is possible that some people do not evacuate because they fear losing their job.

In many states it is legal for an employer to fire employees for not showing up for work regardless of whether there is a declared state of emergency or evacuation of the area.

Most employers don’t because it’s bad press and just generally an awful thing to do, but they are legally allowed to do so.

It's a condition of being in an at-will state.

I've been personally impacted by this. We had the worst blizzard in over 50 years several years ago. Our company refused to let us leave even though conditions were extremely unsafe as time was passing on. If you up and left work, being that we are in an at-will state, you could have been fired. There were those who did leave early and they were docked pay for doing so but thankfully they were not fired. They only let us leave the building when the police came building by building in the office park and were incredulous that they were having us stay there. Unfortunately it was too late and many people were getting in accidents just leaving the parking lot with several stranded on concrete medians because the snow covered it up and the snow falling obscured vision even worse. I myself was stuck twice getting home but luckily I had packed a shovel and dug myself out.

This was from an article last year in regards during Irma: "According to law experts, the likelihood of being fired for evacuating is low, often because it looks bad for employers to disregard safety during severe weather situations."

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I always find it interesting that threads of this nature always wind up going down a rabbit hole and wind up focusing far away from the topic at hand. Okay some folks will use their pets as an excuse not to evacuate, others say it's money while others say it is because of people just not being smart. The list goes on. The reality, a reality that many of us have faced and others have not is that until you are faced with the decision you don't know how you will react. Yes in the end it should be all about protecting lives because everything else can be replaced, you cannot. That should be the decision point, nothing else. But what if you live 30 miles from the coast? You have never flooded in your current home of 25 years but you are keenly aware that in the aftermath of the storm you will be cut off. No services, no power, no food sources except what you started with, and no water. It's a big one, winds can hit 100 mph. You also know that once you leave you will not be allowed back for as much as a week after the storm. A week of not knowing if you have anything worth returning to.

So many of the decisions have nothing to do with vaccinations, or money, or any of that, but more to do with the things you have worked for your entire life and a life altering situation that somewhere, somehow in the back of your mind says over and over again that if you stay you can protect those things and make the final outcome better.

That is the decision, that is the struggle, that is where the hard decisions come from. Everything else is just window dressing.

I couldn’t have said it better.

In my specific case I live on the coast, my business is on the water. I do leave to higher ground but it’s just a mile up the road to a cousins home that is still in the ordered evacuation area, it actually also got water in Katrina, we just moved further uphill during the storm. Katrina had more water than any storm since pre 1900’s, my family has lived in the area since the late 1800s and stories have been passed down from previous generations so we know just how much water their was in other storms.
But let’s say I leave and I spend money on a hotel, 2-7 nights is expensive. I come home to everything I own having been flooded, destroyed, or looted. I’m also out of work because the local waters are closed to fishing, not to mention the product I have possibly lost. I was out of work for 1&1/2 months after Katrina. I could really use the money that I would have spent on a hotel. Looters are also very common after storms so getting back quickly is essential, I’ve confronted truckloads after both Ivan and Katrina. Had I evacuated like ordered, I am certain I would have been cleaned out. Also immediately following the storm I need to gas up the generators to keep freezers, coolers, and ice machines running. A lot of business owners have serious money tied up into their businesses and some officers simply will not let you come back no matter what.
A Conservation officer actually threatened to arrest me in front of my house during Ivan because of a mandatory evacuation order. Ivan passed just to the east of us around Gulf Shores, AL so the weather was nothing but the occasional thunderstorm for my area. We lost power but no serious damage. Katrina was a different story, we had trees down, houses damaged and flooded, without power for almost 10 days, my business flooded with doors washed off leaving it open to looting, I had equipment stolen, and Now, as if to add insult to injury some here think I should be Fined for not obeying an order to evacuate.
I hope those posters never experience what I and I’m certain other posters here have experienced.

 

[luvsJack]

I may have missed it, but I don’t believe anyone has mentioned that it is possible that some people do not evacuate because they fear losing their job.

In many states it is legal for an employer to fire employees for not showing up for work regardless of whether there is a declared state of emergency or evacuation of the area.

Most employers don’t because it’s bad press and just generally an awful thing to do, but they are legally allowed to do so.

That would have been ds’s problem during Katrina. Well not his but anyone he worked with that was in the evacuation area. They had to go through NOLA to get to work so couldn’t go early. There was no choice but to wait until after. And hard to leave during and chance not being able to get there. The rig wasn’t in the hurricane area, they just had to go through the area to get there. It was a hard decision for some of the guys.

Of course it wasn’t long after they went to work they had to come in because of Rita.

 

[GreatLakes]

I always find it interesting that threads of this nature always wind up going down a rabbit hole and wind up focusing far away from the topic at hand. Okay some folks will use their pets as an excuse not to evacuate, others say it's money while others say it is because of people just not being smart. The list goes on. The reality, a reality that many of us have faced and others have not is that until you are faced with the decision you don't know how you will react. Yes in the end it should be all about protecting lives because everything else can be replaced, you cannot. That should be the decision point, nothing else. But what if you live 30 miles from the coast? You have never flooded in your current home of 25 years but you are keenly aware that in the aftermath of the storm you will be cut off. No services, no power, no food sources except what you started with, and no water. It's a big one, winds can hit 100 mph. You also know that once you leave you will not be allowed back for as much as a week after the storm. A week of not knowing if you have anything worth returning to.

So many of the decisions have nothing to do with vaccinations, or money, or any of that, but more to do with the things you have worked for your entire life and a life altering situation that somewhere, somehow in the back of your mind says over and over again that if you stay you can protect those things and make the final outcome better.

That is the decision, that is the struggle, that is where the hard decisions come from. Everything else is just window dressing.

I did just that when I lived in a hurricane area and a storm was heading our way. I grabbed a bag and left. If my stuff got destroyed or stolen I would have replaced it. Nothing was irreplaceable but I wasn't risking my life even with a chance it was hitting where I was. Had I had a pet at the time I would have brought it with me.

It wasn't a hard decision, I saw the storm was heading my way and a few days out I headed north until it was clear.

For those PP who can't seem to comprehend not taking their dogs to the vet, should folks too poor to afford a vet not have pets? Rabies is the only vaccination that legally has to be given by a vet in our state. However, I've given MANY dogs their shots, bought by me at TSC for a few dollars, because their owner can't afford to take them to the vet for routine care. I show them how to do it (it's really not hard), and the owner keeps the receipt and vaccine box as "proof", and do it themselves from there on out. I do NOT blame the local vet for her prices, but if it's pay food/utilities/rent, vs a $150 vet bill....well, most folks make the practical choice.

I've also worked hard to bring low cost spay/neuter clinics to the area.

PLEASE don't judge, until you've walked a mile in their (worn out) shoes.

Terri

If you can't afford a vet then no, you shouldn't have a pet. Beyond shots there are the yearly checkup, blood work to test for parasites like heart worm, regular flea and heart worm treatment and so on.

One of our rescues ended up testing positive for heart worm even though he tested negative at the shelter and we medicated him starting immediately. Having him treated for it wasn't cheap but it was a no-brainer to do it. We would never not treat our pets when needed.

This is all part of having a pet in my opinion. Just like you should not have a vehicle if you can't afford gas and insurance you shouldn't have a pet if you can afford all that goes with it. The cost if anything isn't just the cost of acquring that thing, it is all the upkeep that comes with it.

 

[luvsJack]

I did just that when I lived in a hurricane area and a storm was heading our way. I grabbed a bag and left. If my stuff got destroyed or stolen I would have replaced it. Nothing was irreplaceable but I wasn't risking my life even with a chance it was hitting where I was. Had I had a pet at the time I would have brought it with me.

It wasn't a hard decision, I saw the storm was heading my way and a few days out iiheaded north until it was clear.

And that is fine for you. Not everyone can make that split decision.

 

[Southernmiss]

I heard this on NPR yesterday and thought it was timely considering this discussion.

It's dealing with wildfires, but easily applicable for other disasters.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/19/6476...communities-struggle-to-recover-after-a-wildf

And another

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...al-disasters-may-widen-income-gap-report-says

 

[LSUmiss]

I heard this on NPR yesterday and thought it was timely considering this discussion.

It's dealing with wildfires, but easily applicable for other disasters.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/19/6476...communities-struggle-to-recover-after-a-wildf

And another

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...al-disasters-may-widen-income-gap-report-says

I heard it too & thought of this thread.