Covid And The Rest of Us

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OK, so here we go! The sooner we get started, the sooner we get done is what my DDad always used to say! I'm not sure we've got anyone from England participating here; @Welsh_Dragon and @BadPinkTink - how does this news impact Wales and Ireland? What is the general attitude towards Covid vaccine where you are?
Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine approved for use in UK, starting next week - CNET
So Wales has not decided who should be prioritised when allocating the Pfizer vaccine. 1.4 million people are in the priority groups (as listed by England), 40 million doses bought by U.K. government of which based on population, Wales should get about 4.8%.
Because the vaccine isn’t portable, the Welsh government are suggesting that the elderly in care/ nursing homes will not be prioritised, as the risk of taking the elderly out of their bubbles is too great. So the first group here may be front line medics, followed by care home/nursing home staff and community social workers.
The lower risk one is, the more likely is is that one will receive the Oxford vaccine, rather that the Pfizer one. Oh and to be different Wales is planning to issue ID cards confirming vaccination.
On a more amusing note, pubs/breweries/restaurants have reacted to the alcohol ban by banning our First Minister from a large number of licensed premises.😂
 
The Sinovac vaccine is apparently already in wide distribution in China (this is the one Canada haplessly partnered in developing under the brand-name CanSino.) According to this article, the vaccine has not undergone testing the same way as the other potential vaccines have been. It's an interesting read.
Does China have a Covid-19 vaccine? Almost 1 million people may already be inoculated. - Vox
I thought I remember you discussing Canada-China 'relationship' for lack of a better word but then I thought I was misremembering. I did not realize China had started vaccinating people before phase 3 had completed with data. I remember hearing about Russia months ago but that was it; without going too far it's not surprising hearing about China though. Since we've talked about percentages of people willing to get the vaccine I wonder about the high rate for China..if it isn't for some other reason that people are so willing to getting it. It is an interesting read for sure.

I also didn't realize about the UAE. The article you posted mentioned Brazil and Turkey are signed on with Sinovac.

So then is Canada just left out there hanging with respects to that 'relationship' with China?
 
Also just to note, the EU countries have pre ordered varies quantities of the different vaccines from the European Medicines Agency. The Irish Government have ordered enough vaccines for the entire population. They have also ordered the specialized refrigeration containers for the Pfizer vaccine. Distribution in Ireland will be decided by the Irish Government, so no matter where you live, if you are in the category you will get called. There will be no postcode lottery.
 
On a more amusing note, pubs/breweries/restaurants have reacted to the alcohol ban by banning our First Minister from a large number of licensed premises.😂
Oh if only we could do that here to elected officials lol. Seriously that's my humor for today is reading your above comment and picturing it like "yeah that'll show 'em, no liquor for you if no liquor for us!"
 


Just an update on the UK approval.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-who-will-get-the-pfizer-vaccine-first-12081391
This approval today is an emergency approval. The EU have decided to not do emergency approval and go direct to full approval.

The UK Government's Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization has published a list of priority for the vaccine. 800,000 doses have passed batch testing and are on the way for this first phase of vaccinations.

25,000 doses will arrive in Northern Ireland on December 9th.
There are 16000 care home residents and 32000 frontline health and social care workers so not everyone in the highest priority categories will get the vaccine before Christmas.
Cross borders frontline health and social care workers, people who live in the Republic of Ireland but work in health care in Northern Ireland will get the vaccine.


1 - Residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
2 - All those aged 80 and over. Frontline health and social care workers
3 - All those aged 75 and over
4 - All those aged 70 and over. Clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
5 - All those aged 65 and over
6 - All individuals aged 16-64 with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
7 - All those aged 60 and over
8 - All those aged 55 and over
9 - All those aged 50 and over

Two groups will not receive the vaccine:

1 - Pregnant women
2 - Most children under 16

"Women should be advised not to come forward for vaccination if they may be pregnant or are planning a pregnancy within three months of the first dose," the JCVI stated.

It will also not be generally available for children. The JCVI stated that "following infection, almost all children will have asymptomatic infection or mild disease" and as such don't need it.

However it will be available for "those children at very high risk of exposure and serious outcomes, such as older children with severe neuro-disabilities that require residential care".

Where will the vaccines be administered?

There will be "three modes of delivery" of the vaccine, according to the health secretary, with hospitals, mass vaccination centres and GPs and pharmacists offering the jab to those most in need.

"Fifty hospitals across the country are already set up and waiting to receive the vaccine as soon as it's approved, so that can now happen," he added.

These hubs are not necessarily where all patients will receive their vaccines, but are sites that are going to be capable of storing the vaccines and coordinate their distribution.

Mr Hancock said vaccinations will start with the most elderly, people in care homes and their carers, before the vaccines are delivered in the appropriate locations for where they sit on the priority list.

The vaccines will be arriving in the UK from Pfizer's plant in Belgium and will be delivered to a central depot where batches will be tested for quality control purposes.

Once the vaccine batches are approved they will be moved to storage freezers, and will then be delivered to the 50 hospital hubs around the UK - all while being stored in cryogenic temperatures.

The vaccine needs to be defrosted before it can be used, which takes several hours, and then additional time is needed to prepare the vaccine for being administered.
 
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That's a very precise breakdown on the ages. I'm not sure if I've seen it broken down like that in the U.S. plans (meaning 80+, 75, 70, etc)
 


I thought I remember you discussing Canada-China 'relationship' for lack of a better word but then I thought I was misremembering. I did not realize China had started vaccinating people before phase 3 had completed with data. I remember hearing about Russia months ago but that was it; without going too far it's not surprising hearing about China though. Since we've talked about percentages of people willing to get the vaccine I wonder about the high rate for China..if it isn't for some other reason that people are so willing to getting it. It is an interesting read for sure.

I also didn't realize about the UAE. The article you posted mentioned Brazil and Turkey are signed on with Sinovac.

So then is Canada just left out there hanging with respects to that 'relationship' with China?
Yes. It's over. Our capital and R&D were used to develop this vaccine and then our "share" of it that was meant to go into trials here in Canada months ago was withheld on direct order of the CCP. It was a stunningly stupid thing for Canada to have entered into.
Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies | Globalnews.ca
 
Yes. It's over. Our capital and R&D were used to develop this vaccine and then our "share" of it that was meant to go into trials here in Canada months ago was withheld on direct order of the CCP. It was a stunningly stupid thing for Canada to have entered into.
Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies | Globalnews.ca
Well that is really unfortunate and down right sucks. Again China..but still geez, poor Canada :(
 
ll its like why they are getting rid of buffets on cruise ships. Its basically to just take precautions and limit the spread as much as possible. Also when you have a buffet set up, people are more likely to be very close to each other.

Oh gosh, we have had our heating on since the middle of October. Right now its 45f / 7c with 98% humidity, so cold and damp.

I understood the buffet issues, BadPinkTink. I just think that table contact is just as great for viral transmission.

And because I am taking the surface transmission of silverware and dishes out of the equation. One of our infectious disease specialists has said that there truly has not been any concrete evidence of that, although it was a constant early concern.

My talk about keeping my sliding glass door open every day, is true but totally misleading. It is cold and damp here too. But I live in a condo. The damn halls are so warm that I am forever opening my balcony door. Which is a great choice now, for the virus. And are you ready? I rarely - very close to never - turn on the heat all winter long.

These two quotes are pulled out not directed at either of you. They both just trigger me to respond.

Great sentences! I think I will steal them and put them in my pocket. Exactly what I was *trying* to convey -but failed - in one of my posts.

It is one reason I hate the disboards. People often take a pasted post as an attack (not you Annette), when at times it is merely a jumping off point.


Re ageism comments. Again. Substitute any other “group” for “seniors” and it would not be ok. Even if “true” (in whosever eyes). We need to get away from those kinds of stereotypes. I will call it out again if I see it, sorry. People of all ages are doing the best they can muster during these trying times. People of ALL AGES are not always doing things 100% perfectly. I also see it every day. Let’s cut eachother some slack!

Yes, but that goes two ways.

The OP originally did not communicate her point well, her words, and Lord knows we all do that at times. Me, quite regularly.

But:

She works in a store. She works in a province that is in the news for having people entering such stores without masks and with some getting irate when calmly asked to follow protocol.

She obviously works different shifts. So she knows, not us, if there is a worse day for non-compliance - one that stands out, because she works there.

And it is Seniors' Day. How the heck is that a stereotype? When it is a fact of her day, week and work.

If I had to have the most conversations/confrontations/threats to my own health I certainly wouldn't be overly excited about that day, during the pandemic. And I would also mention that fact in a discussion on the virus.


I watched.

It is always wonderful to be reminded of all the issues people are facing, especially with stringent measures. I firmly believe that is important (@bavaria - you are missed).

One - abusive households - is something I think of on a regular basis. In fact, I just commented how awful and stressful online learning must be for those children affected at home, on so many levels. But me thinking about it does nothing about it, it is so very sad.

But here are my concerns -

It seemed to be wanting to promote cognitive dissonance, yet did very little in that regard in its approach.

Insinuating about general political gain for certain parties and flashing a certain party. Like is it is black and white. The people I am surrounded with are equal opportunists to question all our distinct parties in Canada. And praise them. This pandemic, so far, has not produced a myriad of political pouncing here, nor some kind of politcal gift/gain. I thought that brought a disservice to any promotion of thought.

The idea that one can't be supportive of one approach and be critical of certain aspects as well. Not true. I know many that support lockdowns and regularly question decisions. And vice versa, I am sure people who do not support lockdowns question opening willy nilly. I would like small businesses to be able to open back up here in Toronto. I think it is totally unfair what is happening for them and I do not believe it impacts the numbers all that much (although I obviously not the expert! Insert smile and knowing of that fact!). I think about how to show support and voice concern. But I am an absolute hypocrite, as I just made an Amazon purchase - an item of necessity - that with more research and time I could have done curbside pickup in the city instead. On my bike.

Also the constant chatter of the elite. First of all many of the minority fighting the lockdowns hardly run in dissimilar circles. Sigh. And being rich - even being in more financially stable countries - makes it definitely harder, and often impossible, to fully understand the daily lives of many. But it doesn't make it impossible to at least listen and learn. Being wealthy isn't a ________.


I understood, well let me rephrase I could see why they used abolitionists to show that minority thinking can lead to the best choices in history. But near the end it all just became assinine in that area and went too far in my eyes. In the last part only - putting slavery and lockdowns into any similar realm made me nauseous, to be frank.

And I have already voiced this - for me there is a distinct difference between death ( a la just let's open up and live) and death from a horrid condition without support, loved ones, or even worse a lack of supplies and even medical staff to treat you. Yes I know people have that horror every day, in many places. But by all accounts this is a gruesome death. In the end people die of sepsis, I have had it twice - not fun in the moment nor afterwards. Often people think of death as a moment in time, when more often it is a more lengthy process. I am not afraid of death, but no thanks on that type of death over days and weeks AND with Covid. And sympathy for those who face it and for those who treat it day in, day out while their neighbours refuse to follow very simple protocols.



I regularly question choices made. But at the same time I realize that many in charge must have difficulty when their head hits the pillow, knowing that every possible erroneous choice is going to cause suffering. When some don't even have a bed. I live very close to a makeshift tent community. It is truly heartbreaking as I watch it grow, while the temperatures drop.

Well MommyinHonduras, I am sure you weren't looking for a novel on your link. :drinking1 But you somehow got one.
 
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Yes, but that goes two ways.

The OP originally did not communicate her point well, her words, and Lord knows we all do that at times. Me, quite regularly.

But:

She works in a store. She works in a province that is in the news for having people entering such stores without masks and with some getting irate when calmly asked to follow protocol.

She obviously works different shifts. So she knows, not us, if there is a worse day for non-compliance - one that stands out, because she works there.

And it is Seniors' Day. How the heck is that a stereotype? When it is a fact of her day, week and work.

If I had to have the most conversations/confrontations/threats to my own health I certainly wouldn't be overly excited about that day, during the pandemic. And I would also mention that fact in a discussion on the virus.
We can agree to disagree on this one..
 
So Ireland came out of the 6 week lock down this week and now in Level 3 restrictions. My local indoor shopping mall reopened this week. Up until now I have been doing online shopping but I needed to get some things from the drugstore so as I wasn't working today I decided to go for a walk down to the mall. I live in a high unemployment suburb, high density population with multi generational families.

I was there for about an hour and WOW it was crowded. I was there from 9.30am to 10.30am. All I saw was groups of adults, mostly women. Groups of 2 , 3 and 4's, all out for a meet up. It looked like all the parents and grandparents out socializing as the kids were in school. Everyone was wearing a mask and the mall have installed mask vending machines at the entrances and most stores have a hand sanitizer station. There were no queues outside the grocery stores, no queues outside shops like Claires, no queues outside the drugstores and pharmacies, but queues outside all the clothes shops. So many people just doing circuits of the mall, having a great old time. All the seats have been removed from the mall and places like Mcdonalds and Starbucks are take out only. I even saw two older women sitting at a roped off area drinking their coffee. They had just pushed the rope aside.

It felt more like a Saturday afternoon without the kids, than early on a Thursday morning. Even though the mall is just 15 minutes walk from my house, I wont be going back until after Christmas and its back to online shopping for me.
 
Yes. It's over. Our capital and R&D were used to develop this vaccine and then our "share" of it that was meant to go into trials here in Canada months ago was withheld on direct order of the CCP. It was a stunningly stupid thing for Canada to have entered into.
Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies | Globalnews.ca

Personally I do not want to be vaccinated with any serum that has not passed all of our safety criteria, and been approved.

Unfortunately, there will always be spys in almost every area of our Canadian invention. The problem is China has a very different diplomacy system than that of Canada. Many Canadians (originating from China) working here are more often than not under duress and threat of harm to family still living in China.

Yet if we are to continue in a global market with countries like China it will continue to be a dance to protect our democratic stance. Otherwise, be willing and able to cut ties with China, but we would need to examine that which each one of we consumers buy from China.

I worry about rushed vaccines, used in desperation. Russia is immunizing soon or already, before final safety measures. It saddens me that they may see the failed results as just a numbers risk that they are willing to take... sigh.

I wonder where Putin is in the vaccination line?
 
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Personally I do not want to be vaccinated with any serum that has not passed all of our safety criteria, and been approved.

Unfortunately, there will always be spys in almost every area of our Canadian invention. The problem is China has a very different diplomacy
system than that of Canada. Many Canadians (originating from China) working here are more often than not under duress and threat of harm to family still living in China.

Yet if we are to continue in a global market with countries like China it will continue to be a dance to protect our democratic stance.

I worry about rushed vaccines, used in desperation. Russia is immunizing soon or already, before final safety measures. It saddens me that they may see the failed results as just a numbers risk that they are willing to take... sigh.

I wonder where Putin is in the vaccination line?
Everything is a cost benefit analysis. Unfortunately the cost to society has been so high that we must move forward with this. I get that this is hard to understand for folks who have not lost jobs, businesses or health insurance.

And yes, I would definitely like to know where Putin was in line for their vaccination.
 
Everything is a cost benefit analysis. Unfortunately the cost to society has been so high that we must move forward with this. I get that this is hard to understand for folks who have not lost jobs, businesses or health insurance.

And yes, I would definitely like to know where Putin was in line for their vaccination.

I'm not against emergency vaccinations in higher infection areas of democratic countries those are warranted, those emergency vaccinations in my opinion should be safe.
 
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Quebec today reported over 2000 cases, 48 lives lost. This is a record (a horrible one) for the province, the majority of the cases are in Montreal. We have 754 in the hospital, 96 of those are are in ICU. The Christmas we were told we could have by our Premier has been called off.. he never should have spoken, but alas.. I’m thinking we will have some new restrictions, but 🤷‍♀️.
Yesterday we were given new restrictions on stores, and how many were allowed per square foot, I honestly don’t know the number, but people are not really reporting lines. COSTCO started implementing the rule of not allowing anyone with the cardholder yesterday, and boy all I did was read complaints about it! I placed my order online on Tuesday, received it yesterday.
I’m ready for the vaccine when it’s approved, and my number is called, they will not have to ask me twice.
 
Quebec today reported over 2000 cases, 48 lives lost. This is a record (a horrible one) for the province, the majority of the cases are in Montreal. We have 754 in the hospital, 96 of those are are in ICU. The Christmas we were told we could have by our Premier has been called off.. he never should have spoken, but alas.. I’m thinking we will have some new restrictions, but 🤷‍♀️.
Yesterday we were given new restrictions on stores, and how many were allowed per square foot, I honestly don’t know the number, but people are not really reporting lines. COSTCO started implementing the rule of not allowing anyone with the cardholder yesterday, and boy all I did was read complaints about it! I placed my order online on Tuesday, received it yesterday.
I’m ready for the vaccine when it’s approved, and my number is called, they will not have to ask me twice.

I like what you said here:

They will not have to ask me twice.
 
Quebec today reported over 2000 cases, 48 lives lost. This is a record (a horrible one) for the province, the majority of the cases are in Montreal. We have 754 in the hospital, 96 of those are are in ICU.
😔 not good news,sorry to hear it :sad:
The Christmas we were told we could have by our Premier has been called off.. he never should have spoken,
I agree, it's hard for officials but once you open that bottle it's hard to put it back
COSTCO started implementing the rule of not allowing anyone with the cardholder yesterday, and boy all I did was read complaints about it!
Costco did that earlier in the year for us and then eventually removed it. I *think* the most recent update is those who would have qualified for medical exception have to wear a face shield now. Observational Costco is one of the best places to shop between mask compliance, spatial awareness (slipped a little over time in the aisles but still better than other places) most especially at the checkout area.


Regarding your vaccine comment that's us as well! It's getting closer and closer too
 
Just reported on 'The View' South Dakota is sending patients home with oxygen apparatus because of room shortages... sigh.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...s-happening-hospitals-are-overwhelmed/617301/
Unfortunately some of this is compounded by economic pressures that forced closures of hospitals or severely impacted their hospital staff that ironically was caused by the shut down efforts in the spring and these days medical staff burnout during the pandemic is also contributing to shortages.

And it's not just this year, over the years rural hospitals around the country suffer. Both in my state and the state next to me there's been consolidation occurring which pushes resources further and further away from some of these rural places and there's a lack of incentive to get state of the art hospitals in rural areas but also practical reasons not to do this. It's true that beds would eventually run out regardless if the numbers got high enough. That was just reduced even further.

The other side of it is that not every hospital was ever equipped anyways. A lot of the more rural hospitals will on a normal thing send their patients further away, under normal circumstances that's fine, it's when that other area then has their own patients to deal with. It becomes a sliding mess. I believe I mentioned probably in thread or elsewhere, my metro is getting patients from hours away.

There are an extreme amount of hospitalized patients in the U.S. and it's horrible to watch it happen (and I see it on my local news every day), bed space is becoming/already is a problem just like it was in the spring, but there are other reasons that play into that, ones that become an intricate mess.
 
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