DAS and infant, and a few other questions.

[Mom2FiveKidz]

Single mom of 5 kids, planning a trip to Disney.

I have 4 little kids, 2 girls who use wheelchairs, a 5 year old boy, and a baby.

Because of the combination of needs, I don't feel like I can be alone with all 4 little ones, so we're switching off. On some days, my 17 year old son and his best friend will join us. On other days, my nanny and her daughter (3) will join us. So, we're a party of 9, but only 8 will have tickets, and only 7 (6 with tickets) will be together any particular day.

My DD8 will qualify for a DAS, I have no doubt. Because of her CP she needs frequent breaks from her chair. She also gets really overwhelmed and upset in crowds.

So, my questions are:

1) When we count the six people for the DAS, does the baby count? Or is it only people with tickets who get listed?

2) Can we put all 8/9 people on one DAS, knowing that we won't all ride together? Or do we need get a new DAS each day, so that it covers just the people who are there?

3) Has anyone had experience with a tiny kid in a manual chair at Disney? DD6 is brilliant at moving around in her chair, but I'm still concerned about people tripping over her (she's small, so her chair is small), or her running over people's toes. I'd like to be able to split up into different combinations, so there may be times when there's not an adult available to help push her.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Single mom of 5 kids, planning a trip to Disney.

I have 4 little kids, 2 girls who use wheelchairs, a 5 year old boy, and a baby.

Because of the combination of needs, I don't feel like I can be alone with all 4 little ones, so we're switching off. On some days, my 17 year old son and his best friend will join us. On other days, my nanny and her daughter (3) will join us. So, we're a party of 9, but only 8 will have tickets, and only 7 (6 with tickets) will be together any particular day.

My DD8 will qualify for a DAS, I have no doubt. Because of her CP she needs frequent breaks from her chair. She also gets really overwhelmed and upset in crowds.

So, my questions are:

1) When we count the six people for the DAS, does the baby count? Or is it only people with tickets who get listed?

2) Can we put all 8/9 people on one DAS, knowing that we won't all ride together? Or do we need get a new DAS each day, so that it covers just the people who are there?

3) Has anyone had experience with a tiny kid in a manual chair at Disney? DD6 is brilliant at moving around in her chair, but I'm still concerned about people tripping over her (she's small, so her chair is small), or her running over people's toes. I'd like to be able to split up into different combinations, so there may be times when there's not an adult available to help push her.

1) I'm not 100% on this because we've never had that large of a party but my understanding is that it is possible to have more than 6 people for the DAS, but it takes supervisor approval. You need to have everyone present to add them, so on the first day your second "relief team" is in the parks, go to guest services and have them added. The baby won't really count because he/she won't have a ticket or magic band. It's the same as FP+, infants don't need their own fastpasses. They are just let in with the adult who has a FP+.
2) You should be able to have everyone covered under one DAS. The DAS will only work for rides your 8 year old is riding. The whole party doesn't have to ride together, but only those that ride at the same time as the 8 year old will benefit from the DAS. You only need to get the DAS on day one as it is valid for the length of stay, but since not everyone will be present on day 1, you will need to visit guest services a second time to add the extra people.
3) I haven't had any experience with children in wheelchairs in the parks, but I am well aware of how crowded the parks can get, especially if you are staying for fireworks. I can see definite problems with other guests not watching where they are going and/or the crowds being so thick that it would be difficult for your 6 year old to maneuver her chair without running into people or running over toes. I'd try to avoid situations where there isn't an adult to push her.

 

[gap2368]

Single mom of 5 kids, planning a trip to Disney.

I have 4 little kids, 2 girls who use wheelchairs, a 5 year old boy, and a baby.

Because of the combination of needs, I don't feel like I can be alone with all 4 little ones, so we're switching off. On some days, my 17 year old son and his best friend will join us. On other days, my nanny and her daughter (3) will join us. So, we're a party of 9, but only 8 will have tickets, and only 7 (6 with tickets) will be together any particular day.

My DD8 will qualify for a DAS, I have no doubt. Because of her CP she needs frequent breaks from her chair. She also gets really overwhelmed and upset in crowds.

So, my questions are:

1) When we count the six people for the DAS, does the baby count? Or is it only people with tickets who get listed?

2) Can we put all 8/9 people on one DAS, knowing that we won't all ride together? Or do we need get a new DAS each day, so that it covers just the people who are there?

3) Has anyone had experience with a tiny kid in a manual chair at Disney? DD6 is brilliant at moving around in her chair, but I'm still concerned about people tripping over her (she's small, so her chair is small), or her running over people's toes. I'd like to be able to split up into different combinations, so there may be times when there's not an adult available to help push her.

1 I am pretty sure the baby will not count I would think it would be the same as she dose not need a FP.

2 again I think you can do this, I think it will be at some rides if you have more then 6 you might have to break up, and one people go in the stand by line, again I think this will depend on the ride and how many adults to kids you have.


3 There will be times and places that it is way to crowded that she may not want to push her wheel chair like after fire works or. between PP and IASW

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

2 again I think you can do this, I think it will be at some rides if you have more then 6 you might have to break up, and one people go in the stand by line, again I think this will depend on the ride and how many adults to kids you have.

We will never have more than 6, if the baby doesn't count, because they're coming on different days. So, that should be easy.

Does anyone know if I can add someone to the DAS later? So, if my nanny and her daughter aren't there day 1, we can add them day 2?

3 There will be times and places that it is way to crowded that she may not want to push her wheel chair like after fire works or. between PP and IASW

There's no way we'll last till fireworks on this trip, but it's good to know about the area around IASW, because on the nanny days we'll have 2 wheelchairs, a double stroller, a walking kindergartener and 2 adults. Maybe head to IASW right at rope drop?

My biggest worry, though, is lines. How are crowded are the FP lines?

 

[wilkeliza]

1) if you are only a few over 6 all traveling together don't worry the CM will most likely let you have more on the band. Either way the infant does not count.

2) just remember the DAS only works if the 8 year old is riding. So if 8 year old can't or decides not to ride something then you'll need an alternate plan.

 

[jo-jo]

3) Has anyone had experience with a tiny kid in a manual chair at Disney? DD6 is brilliant at moving around in her chair, but I'm still concerned about people tripping over her (she's small, so her chair is small), or her running over people's toes. I'd like to be able to split up into different combinations, so there may be times when there's not an adult available to help push her.

I just wanted to add, when entering or leaving some shows it can get pretty congested. Your six yrs old might have some issues at those times too.

 

[gap2368]

We will never have more than 6, if the baby doesn't count, because they're coming on different days. So, that should be easy.

Does anyone know if I can add someone to the DAS later? So, if my nanny and her daughter aren't there day 1, we can add them day 2?



There's no way we'll last till fireworks on this trip, but it's good to know about the area around IASW, because on the nanny days we'll have 2 wheelchairs, a double stroller, a walking kindergartener and 2 adults. Maybe head to IASW right at rope drop?

My biggest worry, though, is lines. How are crowded are the FP lines?

you can add someone to your DAS latter I do this all the time the I go then my friend or family comes latter. just stop by and add the new person and have there bands

If you do find it crowded area ( and there are a few) go in a single fill line and have your DD in the middle and just tell her to follow you. This should help, but this is Disney and some people only think of them selfs. I would make sure she has your cell number and that you tell her if you get separated not to panic and to let a CM know they are beyond good at finding lost parents, hopefully you will not get separated at all but I would have a plan just incase

but I would not plan your trip to be in the IASW area first thing, depending on the day and the time of year some times it never gets too bad back there.

 

[SueM in MN]

I will add more tonight, but this should answer all your questions about DAS.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...15-digital-das-on-tickets-magicbands.3178976/

 

[lanejudy]

SueM has shared the link to information about DAS.

It sounds like you will have no more than 6+baby at any given time, so you should be ok on numbers. That equals to DAS-holder + 5 guests + baby. You can link everyone to the DAS; you'll need to go to Guest Relations again with the nanny and 3-yr-old to add them. As others have mentioned, the DAS-holder must ride. If there are rides that the DAS-holder will not be doing, you cannot use the DAS for others in the party.

You mention splitting up, and I wanted to point out that could get challenging for more than just pushing a wheelchair. Did I catch the kids' ages as baby, 5, 6, 8 plus the nanny's 3-yr-old? You'll need to be aware of attractions with height limits as well as be aware that children under age 7 (so 0-6 yrs old) must ride in the same seat as someone age 14+. If I caught the kids' ages correctly, you only have 1 old enough to not require a teen/adult seated next to them. You may need to plan seating for each ride; depending on the baby's age/size that child may not be allowed on a lap (infant in a carrier is mostly ok, toddler may be required to sit on the seat). Assuming the teen and his friend are planning to stick with the family and help with the little ones, you should be fine; if they go off on their own you might need to take that time for non-rides (meals, snack breaks, shows) as you may not be able to do some rides until they rejoin your group to help with the little ones. It could also get challenging when the nanny and her 3-yr-old join you.

It is crowded. Even adults on ECVs can have trouble maneuvering and "not being seen." I don't know how used to crowds your child is with her wheelchair. Maybe your party can be a bit of a buffer with someone in front and others beside her. You may just need to plan to go slow.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[DisneyOma]

Can either of the children transfer out of the wheelchair for attractions? Are there any attractions at WDW that have two wheelchair accessible ride vehicles, or is there only one per attraction?

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

DD8 is small enough that any of the teens or adults can pick her up, but because she has major tone issues she needs both hands and a chest to hold her against. So one can't hold her while also holding the 3 year olds hand or wearing the baby. She would need someone's full attention to keep her in a seat

DD6 only has issues with her lower body, so she can be held easily on one hip while you use the other hand to hold the 3 year's hand with the baby in a carrier. She could sit beside an adult on a seat easily.

My assumption is that we will last about 3 - 4 hours max in the park per day, and that we will try and do most of the rides on the days when the teens are there. On the days with nanny, when the ratios are worse, we'll do characters, shows, spray grounds, character meals.

We may also split up some. DD8 and DS5 are the thrill seekers while DD6 and DND3 are all about the princesses so we might send nanny with baby and the little girls to BBB while I take the other 2 to do "scary rides" like the teacups, Goofy's barnstormer or that one where you drive the fake cars, if they will work with 3 in a seat.

I haven't been to WDW since I went with DS17 when he was 8 and an only child, and am just starting to figure this out.

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

SueM has shared the link to information about DAS.

It sounds like you will have no more than 6+baby at any given time, so you should be ok on numbers. That equals to DAS-holder + 5 guests + baby. You can link everyone to the DAS; you'll need to go to Guest Relations again with the nanny and 3-yr-old to add them. As others have mentioned, the DAS-holder must ride. If there are rides that the DAS-holder will not be doing, you cannot use the DAS for others in the party.

You mention splitting up, and I wanted to point out that could get challenging for more than just pushing a wheelchair. Did I catch the kids' ages as baby, 5, 6, 8 plus the nanny's 3-yr-old? You'll need to be aware of attractions with height limits as well as be aware that children under age 7 (so 0-6 yrs old) must ride in the same seat as someone age 14+. If I caught the kids' ages correctly, you only have 1 old enough to not require a teen/adult seated next to them. You may need to plan seating for each ride; depending on the baby's age/size that child may not be allowed on a lap (infant in a carrier is mostly ok, toddler may be required to sit on the seat). Assuming the teen and his friend are planning to stick with the family and help with the little ones, you should be fine; if they go off on their own you might need to take that time for non-rides (meals, snack breaks, shows) as you may not be able to do some rides until they rejoin your group to help with the little ones. It could also get challenging when the nanny and her 3-yr-old join you.

It is crowded. Even adults on ECVs can have trouble maneuvering and "not being seen." I don't know how used to crowds your child is with her wheelchair. Maybe your party can be a bit of a buffer with someone in front and others beside her. You may just need to plan to go slow.

Enjoy your vacation!

Baby is a small infant. If I had to guess, he won't be sitting unsupported at all when we go, and certainly won't be sitting on a seat next to an adult. He would need to be in a carrier or in arms.

I am hoping that the teens can have some days to do whatever they want on their own, including heading to a water park or Universal, or whatever. We will have a large wheelchair van, and a small car, so they will be able to go off and explore. Similarly, on the days that the nanny isn't working and the boys are with me, nanny will have the car so she can take her daughter to a different park, etc . . .

Are there rides where a parent can only have 1 child with them, because of that rule? What would a single mother of 5 year old twins do?

I had assumed that on things that are "easy" like IASW, one adult could hold DD8, with DS5 sitting on the seat next to them, and one could sit between the DD6 and DND3 and wear the baby.

My mom is also coming, but won't be in the parks with us. She's got some limitations, and can't be the caregiver for DD8 or DS5 if I'm not close by, but she might be able to keep the baby back some days, and can stay in the condo with napping kids while I take a couple kids to the pool. I'm conscious, however, of making sure that all the teens and adult get a break, except maybe me, so I don't want to rely on her too much.

 

[DisneyOma]

Are there rides where a parent can only have 1 child with them, because of that rule? What would a single mother of 5 year old twins do?

The rides that only sit two to a seat have restraints (and height requirements) so those aren't ones you'd most likely go on with children who do not have enough control to support themselves. But on those attractions, one adult with two children under the age of 7 may have some trouble - some CMs allow the children to sit in front of the parent, but other CMs do not allow that to happen.

 

[SueM in MN]

Can either of the children transfer out of the wheelchair for attractions? Are there any attractions at WDW that have two wheelchair accessible ride vehicles, or is there only one per attraction?

There is information about attractions with wheelchair accessible vehicles in the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
Most attractions have only one wheelchair accessible ride vehicle running at a time. Most of the wheelchair accessible vehicles only hold one wheelchair at a time. The only exception I can think of that holds 2 wheelchairs at a time is Great Movie Ride (not all vehicles).

Most of the wheelchair accessible ride cars have space for only one companion to sit next to the wheelchair. An adult with a baby in a carrier might be OK. Exceptions that have space for more to sit in the same ride car as the wheelchair include:
MK: Small World, Jungle Cruise, Magic Carpets of Aladdin (2 adults or 1adult and 2 small children can sit in front seat)
Epcot: Living With the Land, 3 Caballeros
Studio: Great Movie Ride
AK: Kilimanjaro Safari

Shows in all the parks have wheelchair seating and at least one companion would be able to sit next to the wheelchair.

Baby is a small infant. If I had to guess, he won't be sitting unsupported at all when we go, and certainly won't be sitting on a seat next to an adult. He would need to be in a carrier or in arms.

I am hoping that the teens can have some days to do whatever they want on their own, including heading to a water park or Universal, or whatever. We will have a large wheelchair van, and a small car, so they will be able to go off and explore. Similarly, on the days that the nanny isn't working and the boys are with me, nanny will have the car so she can take her daughter to a different park, etc . . .

Are there rides where a parent can only have 1 child with them, because of that rule? What would a single mother of 5 year old twins do?

I had assumed that on things that are "easy" like IASW, one adult could hold DD8, with DS5 sitting on the seat next to them, and one could sit between the DD6 and DND3 and wear the baby.

My mom is also coming, but won't be in the parks with us. She's got some limitations, and can't be the caregiver for DD8 or DS5 if I'm not close by, but she might be able to keep the baby back some days, and can stay in the condo with napping kids while I take a couple kids to the pool. I'm conscious, however, of making sure that all the teens and adult get a break, except maybe me, so I don't want to rely on her too much.

The seats on the wheelchair accessible boat for Small World are single seats, separated by a ramp for a wheelchair to get down.
If you are not using the wheelchair boat for Small World, it can be challenging to get in. The boat is low and you need to step down.

The average guest at WDW walks between 3 and 5 miles per day. If the children in wheelchairs are not used to propelling themselves that amount per day, they will need to be pushed. My youngest daughter has been using a wheelchair at WDW since she was 3. She can propel herself in her 'usual life' at home, but WDW is way too much for her to do by herself. Even as an adult, she prefers to be pushed because the crowds can be intimidating.
So, I would not count on the children propelling their own wheelchairs.

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

The rides that only sit two to a seat have restraints (and height requirements) so those aren't ones you'd most likely go on with children who do not have enough control to support themselves. But on those attractions, one adult with two children under the age of 7 may have some trouble - some CMs allow the children to sit in front of the parent, but other CMs do not allow that to happen.

As far a height requirements,

There is information about attractions with wheelchair accessible vehicles in the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
Most attractions have only one wheelchair accessible ride vehicle running at a time. Most of the wheelchair accessible vehicles only hold one wheelchair at a time. The only exception I can think of that holds 2 wheelchairs at a time is Great Movie Ride (not all vehicles).

Most of the wheelchair accessible ride cars have space for only one companion to sit next to the wheelchair. An adult with a baby in a carrier might be OK. Exceptions that have space for more to sit in the same ride car as the wheelchair include:
MK: Small World, Jungle Cruise, Magic Carpets of Aladdin (2 adults or 1adult and 2 small children can sit in front seat)
Epcot: Living With the Land, 3 Caballeros
Studio: Great Movie Ride
AK: Kilimanjaro Safari

Shows in all the parks have wheelchair seating and at least one companion would be able to sit next to the wheelchair.

The seats on the wheelchair accessible boat for Small World are single seats, separated by a ramp for a wheelchair to get down.
If you are not using the wheelchair boat for Small World, it can be challenging to get in. The boat is low and you need to step down.

The average guest at WDW walks between 3 and 5 miles per day. If the children in wheelchairs are not used to propelling themselves that amount per day, they will need to be pushed. My youngest daughter has been using a wheelchair at WDW since she was 3. She can propel herself in her 'usual life' at home, but WDW is way too much for her to do by herself. Even as an adult, she prefers to be pushed because the crowds can be intimidating.
So, I would not count on the children propelling their own wheelchairs.

This is all so helpful. I have a few questions.

1) Height: We're not going for another few months, and I assume everyone will grow a little, but my guess would be that we'll be at (in height order)

DS5 -- 44" and a thrill seeker. I imagine we'll fit in any rides that only he can ride on days when we're with the big boys, and they'll go off and do them on their own.

DD8 -- 40" and a thrill seeker, but limited. I think she can handle some rides like Splash Mountain if he keeps both arms wrapped around her, and rides like Test Track where she can stay in her chair. Again, we'll save those things for days with the big boys.

DD6 -- might or might not hit 40" in time, but she won't ride anything "scary", so I think it's a nonissue.

DND3 -- 35" and maybe 38" rides? Again, if she wants to ride something like Goofy's Barnstormer, she'll probably do it on the days when she's alone with her mom.

So yes, on the days when our ratio is low, we'll probably stick with rides with no height requirement.

2) Companion seating. If I kept DD8 in a chair for a show, and sat next to her, I could use the companion seat have the baby on my lap right? And then we could leave DD6's chair in stroller parking, and she could sit in a regular chair/bench, and we could find 4 seats together, and relatively close by, so that another adult could sit between DD6 and DND3, with DS5 next to one of them?

Also, we can enter the show with the DAS as a party of 6 + baby, even though we'll end up sitting in 2 different rows.

So, given that it's easy to take DD6 out of a chair, we can use this strategy and be OK in any shows, even on the days when we've got 2 adults, and 5 little ones?

3) If there was a ride like IASW, and we decided that we needed to ride in groups, can we do that with the DAS? So, for example, one adult takes a few kids in a wheelchair boat, the other adult waits for the wheelchair boat to come all the way around, and then rides with the other kids, could we do that, or would whichever group doesn't have DD8 (the DAS kid)? Also, are they really saying that in that circumstance, DD5 couldn't sit in a seat by himself in the wheelchair boat (with his own mom on another seat in the same boat), or would that be an exception to needing to be in the same seat?

4) I've heard the 3 - 5 mile statistic, but I imagine this is one place where we'll be significantly below average. DD8 can, on a good day, handle about 4 hours sitting in her chair, including time in the car, which means 3 hours in a park if we're optimistic. If you figure that we'll need to stop for diaper changes and bottles, that we'll probably do more shows than rides, and that we're planning some longer things like character meals, I think we'll be walking less than the average visitor. DD6 has pushed herself on some pretty long adventures. For things like "hiking" on wheelchair trails her ability to push generally outlasts her sister's ability to sit. On the days the boys are with us, we'll probably walk more because we'll be doing more rides, but one of them can push her if need be.

 

[DisneyOma]

As far a height requirements,



DD8 -- 40" and a thrill seeker, but limited. I think she can handle some rides like Splash Mountain if he keeps both arms wrapped around her, and rides like Test Track where she can stay in her chair. Again, we'll save those things for days with the big boys.



3) If there was a ride like IASW, and we decided that we needed to ride in groups, can we do that with the DAS? So, for example, one adult takes a few kids in a wheelchair boat, the other adult waits for the wheelchair boat to come all the way around, and then rides with the other kids, could we do that, or would whichever group doesn't have DD8 (the DAS kid)? Also, are they really saying that in that circumstance, DD5 couldn't sit in a seat by himself in the wheelchair boat (with his own mom on another seat in the same boat), or would that be an exception to needing to be in the same seat?

4) I've heard the 3 - 5 mile statistic, but I imagine this is one place where we'll be significantly below average. DD8 can, on a good day, handle about 4 hours sitting in her chair, including time in the car, which means 3 hours in a park if we're optimistic. If you figure that we'll need to stop for diaper changes and bottles, that we'll probably do more shows than rides, and that we're planning some longer things like character meals, I think we'll be walking less than the average visitor. DD6 has pushed herself on some pretty long adventures. For things like "hiking" on wheelchair trails her ability to push generally outlasts her sister's ability to sit. On the days the boys are with us, we'll probably walk more because we'll be doing more rides, but one of them can push her if need be.

I think Test Track is "need to transfer".

IASW you should all fit in one boat. Why would you need to ride in groups? You can be one big group, no problem. You did say the 6 year old can transfer, right, and be held?

Also, don't forget that you can use first aid if your 8 year old needs a break from her chair. They have cots, etc.

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

Darn, I misread about Test Track. Too bad because even though she is scared of a lot, she loves speed!

Someone said that the 3 and 5 year old would have to sit with an adult, and that the wheelchair boat on IASW has all single seats, so I figured we'd have to split up. If the rule doesn't apply there then we'd sit together in the same boat.

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

I imagine that we will make heavy use of first aid, for storing gtube feeds and meds, diaper changes, and stretching out on a cot. My thought is that DD8, baby and I will head there after a couple hours for a break while the other 3 plus teens or nanny take a different type of break that involves toilets, ice cream, and either cooling off on a spray ground or racing around a playground.

Can I use first aid for the baby too? Like if we go in there for a diaper change (because DD's too big for regular changing tables) and a break for her, they'll let me change his diaper and feed him a bottle while she stretches and chills. He is technically a kid with a disability too (all my kids came to me via special needs adoption) but his disability isn't relevant because he's so young.

 

[Pridemom]

Single mom of 5 kids, planning a trip to Disney.

I have 4 little kids, 2 girls who use wheelchairs, a 5 year old boy, and a baby.

Because of the combination of needs, I don't feel like I can be alone with all 4 little ones, so we're switching off. On some days, my 17 year old son and his best friend will join us. On other days, my nanny and her daughter (3) will join us. So, we're a party of 9, but only 8 will have tickets, and only 7 (6 with tickets) will be together any particular day.

My DD8 will qualify for a DAS, I have no doubt. Because of her CP she needs frequent breaks from her chair. She also gets really overwhelmed and upset in crowds.

So, my questions are:

1) When we count the six people for the DAS, does the baby count? Or is it only people with tickets who get listed?

2) Can we put all 8/9 people on one DAS, knowing that we won't all ride together? Or do we need get a new DAS each day, so that it covers just the people who are there?

3) Has anyone had experience with a tiny kid in a manual chair at Disney? DD6 is brilliant at moving around in her chair, but I'm still concerned about people tripping over her (she's small, so her chair is small), or her running over people's toes. I'd like to be able to split up into different combinations, so there may be times when there's not an adult available to help push her.

Would you consider having your 6 year old and the baby in a double stroller? Last summer my 17yo had problems navigating the parks in a wheelchair. I would be nervous about young ones. People walk right in front of wheelchairs, stop abruptly, and just don't watch where they are walking. It would also let you have one thing to push for two kids.

 

[Mom2FiveKidz]

Would you consider having your 6 year old and the baby in a double stroller? Last summer my 17yo had problems navigating the parks in a wheelchair. I would be nervous about young ones. People walk right in front of wheelchairs, stop abruptly, and just don't watch where they are walking. It would also let you have one thing to push for two kids.

I'd have concerns about that for a few reasons. One is simply that she'd object strongly. She hates that people treat her like a baby when she's in the stroller. Also, that that spot will be taken by the 3 year old. I'm more comfortable with her in a parking lot without an adult's hand on her than I would be with the 3 year old.