DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Evita_W]

We all know people who cope better than others who have the same, general challenges in life. some people are more stoic & others not the squeaky wheel sorts. Should they be the ones who are denied out of hand?

The other issue here is there are those who cope better some days than other days as well, which makes detecting abuse all that much harder.

 

[Evita_W]

Advocating for themselves is important, no question. But there is a fine line between advocacy and demanding, and in the end, Disney will most likely offer non-DAS accommodations to many current DAS users. Whether the guest chooses to use those accommodations will be up to them.

But you can bet that Disney has been working with not only various disability communities but also their lawyers and their data team. When they’re sued (and I have no doubt they will be), they’ll have terabytes of data to show how the DAS, as it is currently distributed, is disruptive to their business model and unsustainable.

Yes, but they also need to make sure that other accommodations work for all.

 

[OurBigTrip]

ECVs can go through the standard queue at Racers, there is an area with stairs that you will bypass though. But you end up waiting longer than other guests, but often the CMs will let you ride twice as a result (depending on how many wheelchair parties are waiting). The must transfer is saying you have to transfer at the ride vehicle in this case, although the wording makes this hard to understand. The separate loading area is to accommodate the transfers, but you still wait through the standard queue or LL queue as applicable, even with an ECV.

And once again, CMs emerge as part of the problem.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes, but they also need to make sure that other accommodations work for all.

Work as in need, not want.

 

[mcall12]

Yes, but they also need to make sure that other accommodations work for all.

I think this is a sticking point, in that there are guests who probably had DAS previously for a variety of reasons (CM not well trained, CM felt pressured and caved) that were not necessarily the guests fault, but for whom this accommodation may no longer apply. It can be hard to accept an alternative, especially if you feel it’s “less” than what you got before. What “works” and what someone perceives to work for them are two different things. And the arbitration of that is where the rubber will meet the road here.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I remember back when Radiator Springs Racers was the hot new E-ticket, and Disney was whining about how disabled people were ruining it for everybody by clogging up the Fastpass queue. And then I read that the standby queue wasn't even wheelchair accessible. In the 21st century, KNOWING how many guests a day used the GAC, they CHOSE to build an inaccessible queue and then blamed disabled people for not being able to use it.

DCA was built WC accessible, queues included. However, RSR opened under GAC, not DAS. My suspicion is GAC was the issue, not the queue. GAC was being issued for mobility issues back then, and the easiest way to fake your way into a GAC was to put a member of your party in a wc. Saw lots of groups in that last year or two playing who wants to sit in the wc now? heck, once we even saw teens trading off a fake leg cast. At DL WC lines/GAC lines were beyond clogged with wc's at popular attractions by the time GAC died so I think one of the things we learned in the GAC to DAS transition was if Disney identifies a particularly abused area, they will take action against it as DAS 1.0 started the policy that mobility issues would specifically not be accommodated.

 

[PrincessV]

Honestly thought, I would expect someone that has been going for many years and tried lots of different things to help with managing lines would know how to explain their issues pretty well. Those folks should have nothing to worry about.

I think some have misinterpreted my comments, so let me clarify that this ^ is exactly what I’m saying I hope will be the case. That each person applying for whatever is the new program will be able to explain what they’ve tried on their own - whether at WDW or elsewhere - what has and has not worked for them and why, and that the CMs fielding calls are empowered and trained to take that into consideration vs. applying a rigid flow chart of accommodations to each applicant and telling them they have to try things that have already been tried and failed before. I’m purposely being vague about what those things could be to avoid writing any kind of script, but my experience so far has been that providing those real-life examples to the CMs has been very helpful for them and has made the whole process more efficient for us both.

I’m not necessarily advocating for DAS specifically to remain or not: I have no idea what alternatives Disney may be cooking up and maybe the new options will be even better at meeting individual needs.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I think this is a sticking point, in that there are guests who probably had DAS previously for a variety of reasons (CM not well trained, CM felt pressured and caved) that were not necessarily the guests fault, but for whom this accommodation may no longer apply. It can be hard to accept an alternative, especially if you feel it’s “less” than what you got before. What “works” and what someone perceives to work for them are two different things. And the arbitration of that is where the rubber will meet the road here.

One big reason for the application process being moved to video calls only is probably that it is much easier for a specially trained DAS CM sitting in a remote office on the other end of a video call to deliver a polite but firm “no” than for a regular CM at City Hall, to whom it has constantly been drummed in that guest satisfaction is paramount, when faced with a guest aggressively demanding DAS and threatening to cause a public scene.

 

[mcall12]

One big reason for the application process being moved to video calls only is probably that it is much easier for a specially trained DAS CM sitting in a remote office on the other end of a video call to deliver a polite but firm “no” than for a regular CM at City Hall, to whom it has constantly been drummed in that guest satisfaction is paramount, when faced with a guest aggressively demanding DAS and threatening to cause a public scene.

I absolutely agree. I think it’s a good change to move this to a specific team with consistent training, and hopefully regular oversight and refresher training.

I think part of the problem and how this exploded was the YMMV approach up to this point. My sister registered one of her kids for the last two trips she took them on and while the child received the DAS both times, her experience was wildly different from the 1st to the 2nd time.

 

[SueM in MN]

There's a lot Disney could do to make a regular day in the parks more accessible for everybody, so that fewer people needed accommodations. No, they're not required to do so, but knowing how many guests with disabilities come through their gates every day it seems short-sighted to not even consider that option.

If the standby queues were designed better, and if they were willing to hire enough staff to keep the people in standby from turning into a tightly-packed unruly mob, fewer people would have trouble going through them. I know it wouldn't make them accessible for EVERYBODY, but it would certainly help.

I know people who went during the social distancing period, who said that the standby queues were the most bearable they'd ever experienced. Designing or retrofitting queues without steps, with better lighting, without so many tight switchbacks or uneven flooring, with fewer narrow, closed-in spaces, could help a lot, along with having CMs in queues to keep guests from running around and pushing and crowding each other, and helping people who needed to get out quickly.

I remember back when Radiator Springs Racers was the hot new E-ticket, and Disney was whining about how disabled people were ruining it for everybody by clogging up the Fastpass queue. And then I read that the standby queue wasn't even wheelchair accessible. In the 21st century, KNOWING how many guests a day used the GAC, they CHOSE to build an inaccessible queue and then blamed disabled people for not being able to use it.

This is the symbol used for Radiator Springs Racer. It means the line is accessible to wheelchairs and ECVs, but all guests must transfer to the ride vehicle.


This is the symbol that is used to indicate guests need to transfer from an ECV to a wheelchair.




GAC (Guest Assistance Card) had 2 stamps that were especially coveted.
One was the Alternate Entry stamp, which in some cases allowed use of the Fastpass Line without waiting. The other was the green arrow stamp; it was meant to allow expedited access for children on Make a Wish trips.

The news stories about GAC ABUSE soon after Radiator Springs opened had to do with people with disabilities who had one of those 2 stamps. A relatively small number of guests were noted to be entering the Fastpass Line, riding and going right back into the Fastpass Line again to ride over and over.
The result was a small number of guests were using 80% of the Fastpass slots for that attraction.
That was what led to GAC changing to DAS. One of the most important changes was that DAS required guests to obtain a DAS Return Time and wait a time similar to the posted wait time.

Same. I think it’s the ECVs that can’t go into the standard queue? This is the info from the Disneyland website for accessibility of this attraction.

View attachment 855943

That symbol means the line is both ECV and wheelchair accessible, but guests need to transfer to a ride vehicle. There may be some oversized ECVs that won't fit, but most ECVs will have no problem.

 

[Kerr84]

And once again, CMs emerge as part of the problem.

In this situation, the CMs are just kind of pixie dusting. We used the wheel chair loading on our last trip. My autistic daughter (who was 3 on our last DL trip and had her hurt leg so bad that we had her stroller tagged as a wheelchair) threw a fit getting off of RSR because she loved it so much. The CM asked what was wrong and did she not like it? I said no she loved it and doesn’t want to leave! And so he said, jump back in. It was so nice of him and made my daughter so happy. (Not that fits should be rewarded. We are working very hard on waiting our turn and sharing in therapy.) Letting us ride again didn’t negatively affect anyone. The cars for wheel chair loading are in a separate area and just sit there if someone isn’t waiting to ride.

 

[Evita_W]

In this situation, the CMs are just kind of pixie dusting. We used the wheel chair loading on our last trip. My autistic daughter (who was 3 on our last DL trip and had her hurt leg so bad that we had her stroller tagged as a wheelchair) threw a fit getting off of RSR because she loved it so much. The CM asked what was wrong and did she not like it? I said no she loved it and doesn’t want to leave! And so he said, jump back in. It was so nice of him and made my daughter so happy. (Not that fits should be rewarded. We are working very hard on waiting our turn and sharing in therapy.) Letting us ride again didn’t negatively affect anyone. The cars for wheel chair loading are in a separate area and just sit there if someone isn’t waiting to ride.

Exactly, we have had it happen at Web Slingers, Toy Story, Grizzly River Run, small world, Haunted Mansion, Little Mermaid, Indiana Jones (that one was usually due to operational concerns to get us back to the side without stairs when the elevator wasn't working), splash mountain, test track, bug thunder at Disney World. There have been other cases, sometimes when there is no line for anyone of course. An odd one was at Haunted Mansion at Disney World, we loaded at the exit due to our needs, when we got back they asked us if we would be willing to stay on to help with training a new CM. DH found out later that they wanted to show the CM how to handle bringing more than one mobility device to the ride vehicles and needed extra time to prepare the new CM, so they wanted us to ride a second time. We didn't need them brought up to the ride vehicle, but it didn't hurt us either and they were grateful to us.

There have also been attractions where they have told us when boarding that we will ride twice before getting off.

We never ask, and sometimes even say no when they offer due to our needs, etc. but sometimes operational concerns make it a necessity as well, although they have found ways to fix a lot of that over the past few years, but sometimes the CMs do indeed offer as pixie dust. But honestly this isn't something anyone should ever expect or demand.

 

[Evita_W]

In this situation, the CMs are just kind of pixie dusting. We used the wheel chair loading on our last trip. My autistic daughter (who was 3 on our last DL trip and had her hurt leg so bad that we had her stroller tagged as a wheelchair) threw a fit getting off of RSR because she loved it so much. The CM asked what was wrong and did she not like it? I said no she loved it and doesn’t want to leave! And so he said, jump back in. It was so nice of him and made my daughter so happy. (Not that fits should be rewarded. We are working very hard on waiting our turn and sharing in therapy.) Letting us ride again didn’t negatively affect anyone. The cars for wheel chair loading are in a separate area and just sit there if someone isn’t waiting to ride.

Also,.this was a way to diffuse a melt down that could have potentially impacted operations, the CM made a judgement call in the moment.

 

[smartlabelprint]

In this situation, the CMs are just kind of pixie dusting. We used the wheel chair loading on our last trip. My autistic daughter (who was 3 on our last DL trip and had her hurt leg so bad that we had her stroller tagged as a wheelchair) threw a fit getting off of RSR because she loved it so much. The CM asked what was wrong and did she not like it? I said no she loved it and doesn’t want to leave! And so he said, jump back in. It was so nice of him and made my daughter so happy. (Not that fits should be rewarded. We are working very hard on waiting our turn and sharing in therapy.) Letting us ride again didn’t negatively affect anyone. The cars for wheel chair loading are in a separate area and just sit there if someone isn’t waiting to ride.

We had a similar situation at a ride when my oldest was 2. They even offered to let him ride a 3rd time because he was still struggling. We made the call to leave. I think they try to mitigate issues with disabled kids when possible. I’d like to share another experience from tonight but it leaves room for scammers to abuse. But I’ll just say the CM helped us avoid a total explosion. After the crappy trip we’ve had it would have been the last straw so I was grateful.

 

[Jaay]

I'm sure many people have asked (I'm sorry to add more) but I've had to dip out of this chat for a bit because checking it every day was genuinely affecting my mental health - are there any updates of the new process yet? I saw a few messages that say it's not actually happening/updating for DAS requests until 20th May; not people doing it in advance leading up to this date for trips for after 20th May?
Thank you in advance

 

[Unity]

I'm sure many people have asked (I'm sorry to add more) but I've had to dip out of this chat for a bit because checking it every day was genuinely affecting my mental health - are there any updates of the new process yet? I saw a few messages that say it's not actually happening/updating for DAS requests until 20th May; not people doing it in advance leading up to this date for trips for after 20th May?
Thank you in advance

Don't be sorry for asking [and putting your mental health first is always good <3].

From what we know the new process isn't kicking in until requests made May 20th or later. Right now those who are getting DAS report that the ten minute rule is in affect, and that they are being told the new changes will be coming - but yes, until May 20th we probably won't know how things besides the four person limit and no DAS pre-selections will be handled

I think that is the gist of it, but if I'm wrong someone will correct me I'm sure!

 

[Unity]

In this situation, the CMs are just kind of pixie dusting. We used the wheel chair loading on our last trip. My autistic daughter (who was 3 on our last DL trip and had her hurt leg so bad that we had her stroller tagged as a wheelchair) threw a fit getting off of RSR because she loved it so much. The CM asked what was wrong and did she not like it? I said no she loved it and doesn’t want to leave! And so he said, jump back in. It was so nice of him and made my daughter so happy. (Not that fits should be rewarded. We are working very hard on waiting our turn and sharing in therapy.) Letting us ride again didn’t negatively affect anyone. The cars for wheel chair loading are in a separate area and just sit there if someone isn’t waiting to ride.

Yeah, I definitely see these sorts of situations as 'pixie dusting' - and I'll point out it's not necessarily something that just happens to DAS users / those in wheelchairs or ECVS.

When I was four years old [my first trip when everything and all was magical!] my parents happened to catch on recording a CM letting me 'steer' the Jungle Cruise ship. And they let us ride it twice because the CM was sweet. Now, I didn't really think my neurodivergence behavior was on display [or was even known in the least] at the time and didn't seem to affect the situation.

That was obviously a long time ago now. And I'm not sure how many can report of such pixie-dusting in the present day. But it at least says that it isn't a disabled thing only.