DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Disneychick75]

People fake documents that will put them in prison for a decade, those people would not bat an eye to fake a doctors note and risk a ban from a theme park.

I posted earlier that through DAS, applicants could receive a special and exclusive identifier that a doctor would use. The doc would have to put his state license number on the document. All of the doc's license numbers are on computers and could be checked. I just looked and found the search site for my state in 1 minute. Promise that if someone tried to scam this kind of document, the scammers would end up arrested, go to trial, and end up in prison. Doctors don't play and neither would Disney.

 

[Madteaparty001]

Can we please stop referring to all those with developmental disabilities as lacking in "mental faculties"? lanejudy said it best in acknowledging that it depends on the individual. Developmental disability does not equal intellectual disability. They are different sets of conditions and diagnoses - and while they can be co-occurring, they are not always co-occurring.

As one example, a person who is being overstimulated and overwhelmed from noise and having a meltdown - and thus unable to reason *during the moment of meltdown* - does not mean the child is incapable of reason *all the time.* it means that when that meltdown is happening, their ability to reason is shut down.

The seeming need to stereotype or cramming certain disabilities into specific little boxes is not helpful to the discussion of these changes. All it does it pit people against each other

Still not caught up on this thread (trying!), but hard agree with this. DD is high IQ and thus considered "high functioning" which I consider "high masking". She tests as advanced in science, math, and reading. She has an IEP but it's not for autism because the school tested her and didn't find her 'autistic enough' on their autism scale. Well there was an incident in class that caused a meltdown so she fled and locked herself in the bathroom. Nobody could get her out so they had to call us to get her. DH shows up and warns them that she's going to be completely out of control and just know he's got it. So he crawls under the stall and carries her out kicking and screaming, just basically shouting insane things and beating the crap out of him as he takes her to the car. They were stunned because they had never actually seen her meltdown before, he said it took everything in him not to ask them if she was autistic enough yet.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Still not caught up on this thread (trying!), but hard agree with this. DD is high IQ and thus considered "high functioning" which I consider "high masking". She tests as advanced in science, math, and reading. She has an IEP but it's not for autism because the school tested her and didn't find her 'autistic enough' on their autism scale. Well her teacher noticed her getting overstimulated while the class was taking a test one day and asked if she wanted to go to a different room where she would have less distractions. She felt singled out and embarrassed, which is something she has difficulty processing, so she fled and locked herself in the bathroom. Nobody could get her out so they had to call us to get her. DH shows up and warns them that she's going to be completely out of control and just know he's got it. So he crawls under the stall and carries her out kicking and screaming, just basically shouting insane things and beating the crap out of him as he takes her to the car. They were stunned because they had never actually seen her meltdown before, he said it took everything in him not to ask them if she was autistic enough yet.

I'm so sorry she and all of you had to experience that. It sounds like she's a twice-exceptional student. I have a lot of friends with children in similar situations, and it is its own difficult road - made more difficult because so many don't recognize it. I hope as awful as that situation was(/is), that you are able to get her better services

 

[smartlabelprint]

Every party will now do a full standby every time vs going LL to LL.

For example...

Party A DAS - 6 people

2 rides with 1 hour stand by waits (and LL waits of 15 min) - Party A makes reservation at gate at 9am

Arrives at ride 1 at 9:10am and enters LL
Rides as a full group and gets off at 9:25am
Makes reservation for next ride at 9:30am (10 minutes after they checked in to the ride) for 10:30am
Gets to 2nd ride at 10:30am and enters LL
Rides by 10:45am and exits

12 Tier 1 rides done

Party A parent swap - 6 people

Enters park at 9am
Arrives at 1st ride at 9:10am
Gets rider swap entry done by 9:15am - party of 4 enters SB line, party of 2 waits
Party of 4 out at 10:15am and now swaps with party of 2
Party of 2 now waits in LL and is out by 10:35am
Party of 6 now walks to 2nd ride and arrives at 10:45am

6 Tier 1 rides done

Rider swap vs DAS will cut lines by 50%...it always takes time vs DAS that takes no time...it is the ultimate way to accommodate while drastically reducing lines and making cheating effectively worthless. Less rides can be ridden, even if you had an extra rider with a group. It's WHY they let an older brother or sis ride twice with the baby swap (once with mom and once with dad) - they have to wait so long to move on from rides each time, so it gives them a bonus.

Our party a will work this way
Party A DAS - 6 people

2 rides with 1 hour stand by waits (and LL waits of 15 min) - Party A makes reservation at gate at 9am

Arrives at ride 1 at 9:10am and enters LL
Rides as a full group and gets off at 9:25am
Makes reservation for next ride at 9:30am (10 minutes after they checked in to the ride) for 10:30am
Go to bathroom, give snacks to try to prevent meltdowns, snack wasn’t right 10 minute meltdown and elopement attempt, end up at a quickservice. Cancel 2nd ride and try to calm everyone with a ride like Casey jr. They see dumbo so want to try that next. Another bathroom break. Hungry again quick service. Now it’s too hot to do anything. Back to hotel for a 4 hour break.

 

[nighttowll]

I wonder why Disney didn't just go the same route as Universal to get rid of the fakers. Then this would be more fairly applied.

Agree, I'm all for doctor's notes, but as others have stated if they aren't verified, they do no good. I was under the impression the 3rd party for Universal did verify them, but from comments here, maybe not.

The main thing is that there are too many differences between the two parks for Disney to simply adopt what Universal is doing, and I'm not sure it is actually any better anyway. Universal is pretty strict about passes. The 3rd party approving you really means nothing. It's a general card you get with your needs. It's good at a number of different parks, and each of those parks will interpret it and accommodate differently. You still have to interview with Universal, and it is possible they will deny you. Universal is firm on if it is a physical issue you can rent a wheelchair or scooter, no exceptions. If you can't wait, you can buy EP. That's their main recommendation by EP. You have to really convince them why you can't wait in a 5 to 15 minute EP line to get a pass. Some people have reported having to buy EP first to prove that that isn't the reason they want the pass.

So Universal is removing a huge number of guests by telling them to just buy EP, that would never work at Disney because Disney has nothing equivalent to EP. Genie & LL do not compare to a pass that is good for unlimited rides on all but one ride in both parks. Plus, they are forcing disabled people to purchase EP which again would not go over well at Disney.

 

[nighttowll]

How would tracking them do any good? I mean no matter what the needs are, most of us have good days and bad days. And sometimes tools like the DAS allows more good days than without the tools. So, if you have DAS and it makes all days of the trip good (which would be a very successful use of a DAS) and they track you, then that would be considered abuse, even though without the DAS, melt downs and bad days? You see the problem with trying to wed out the abusers? If the tools work as intended, then it should appear that the person doesn't need it because it did it's job properly.

I think the tracking being referenced is in regards to fakers who would use DAS to ride two things at the same time, being on a virtual queue for a DAS while waiting in a standby line that they said they weren't able to wait in.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Curious - why would they take the picture before your DM explained the need for DAS? If the answer had been no, then they would have the picture for no reason?

They did this for us last month too. I thought it was strange. The first thing she asked me was if we’d used it before so maybe that played a role.

 

[Disturbia]

I’m so glad I’m not a moderator. My head is spinning and can’t keep track of who said what.

 

[nighttowll]

That's only for attractions where the child is too short to ride. They are not forced to separate to experience most attractions, as so many attractions do not have a height requirement

Yes, I feel like most people who use RS for small children, use it only a few times a day. Most aren't riding every single ride without their children. Having to be separated for 1 or 2 rides a day is one thing, spending 99% of your day apart in separate lines is completely different. Why not just vacation solo at that point?

 

[nighttowll]

One thing Disney has now that they didn't have in the past is ability to 'put' things onto the guest's profile.
When it was GAC (Guest Assistance Card), different stamps were added to the physical card with different accommodations. Just off the top of my head they included:

• Wait in a shaded area when the queue is in the sun for a significant amount of time
• Avoid stairs
• Seating in the front
• Alternate entry (often the exit when the regular line wasn't accessible)
• One stamp - the green arrow stamp allowed immediate entry thru the exit (or later, Fastpass Line) - was supposed to be reserved for Make A Wish trips. But, a lot of people got that stamp anyway

The different stamps were confusing and sometimes people even had contradictory stamps. Sometimes people with vision related disabilities who needed close seating in a show also had a stamp to use the accessible entrance - which put them at the back of the theater. To avoid scenes at Guest Relations and at attractions, people often ended up with a higher level of access than they needed and attraction CMs often just treated them all the same.

BUT - blue sky thinking...
What if they used the ability to add things to personalize the disabled person's accommodations profile to match their needs. Sort of like a digital version of the GAC stamps.
Maybe one person has 'traditional DAS' that works the same as presently.
Maybe someone else gets a certain number of 'DAS entries' per day
Someone else has a Disability Rider Swap that can be arranged at every attraction - not just the ones with height requirements that are presently on the list

Multiple other things I can't think of right now because my eyes are tired from Internet reading...

Yes, this would be amazing! I always thought if GAC had just been done correctly that would have cut down on 99% of the issues, but it never seemed the cards were filled out or followed correctly.

Give people the specific accommodations they need.

 

[nighttowll]

Still not caught up on this thread (trying!), but hard agree with this. DD is high IQ and thus considered "high functioning" which I consider "high masking". She tests as advanced in science, math, and reading. She has an IEP but it's not for autism because the school tested her and didn't find her 'autistic enough' on their autism scale. Well her teacher noticed her getting overstimulated while the class was taking a test one day and asked if she wanted to go to a different room where she would have less distractions. She felt singled out and embarrassed, which is something she has difficulty processing, so she fled and locked herself in the bathroom. Nobody could get her out so they had to call us to get her. DH shows up and warns them that she's going to be completely out of control and just know he's got it. So he crawls under the stall and carries her out kicking and screaming, just basically shouting insane things and beating the crap out of him as he takes her to the car. They were stunned because they had never actually seen her meltdown before, he said it took everything in him not to ask them if she was autistic enough yet.

This is incredibly relatable. I'm like you see A spinning down the hallway every day. You see her having complete meltdowns where she can't speak or function, but she's fine. She's got As. Such a long hard journey trying to get help.

 

[Disturbia]

Anyone get the feeling that Disney deliberately let this system get totally out of hand just so it would be easier for them to justify getting rid of?

They won’t because their target market is families with young kids and they’re trying to keep them from jumping ship next year (Epic World). Limiting abuse will make things easier for those of us who actually need the service and use it as intended.

I just wish they would send an email to existing customers for awareness rather than dropping bombshells in the park or a day before when most people are traveling and with flight delays/cancellations phones get drained even with battery backups.

There should be at least a 70 day notice (before ADR day and release correct park hours by then) for any change so we can cancel or move things.

 

[PrincessDadx2]

At the end of the day it is just a money grab. Same reason they got rid of the Disney Institute for homeschooling, non expiring tickets, eliminated magic express, eliminated fast passes, etc. Disney used to be able to survive just making a few $billion but now they need to squeeze every possible dime out of the guests. Yes some people cheat and some people bring sandwiches into the park, get over it. Raise the price 10% for everyone if it really makes that much difference, but the Disney I loved would not screw over 90% of the legitimate customers because 10% cheat.

My DW uses DAS due to epilepsy and heat issues with standing in line. Guess that no longer counts? Oh, I can do an interview after my paid in full cancellation date, to see if they will call us liars or deem us worthy for "special services" to allow us to wait the same time as anyone else in the line plus the LL time when we return. If we end up at medical services then too bad, you missed the return time for the Genie+ we made you pay for, sorry it didn't work out for you. Just seems like a **** sandwich to me and I will let them know my opinion. If that is truly how it works then they will lose a customer for life along with my grandkids.

If I had a dollar for every fool in line who makes a rude comment and I offer them to take my DWs disability and our DAS pass and we'll just wait in line like normal people I would be retired now.

 

[Disturbia]

But then the question becomes why isn't this also the accommodation for developmental disabilities, as long as the party has at least 3 total guests?

Because waiting with a developmental disability guest is different and much more difficult

 

[Angel Ariel]

They won’t because their target market is families with young kids and they’re trying to keep them from jumping ship next year (Epic World). Limiting abuse will make things easier for those of us who actually need the device and use it as intended.

I just wish they would send an email to existing customers for awareness rather than dropping bombshells in the park or a day before when most people are traveling and with flight delays/cancellations phones get drained even with battery backups.

There should be at least a 70 day notice (before ADR day and release correct park hours by then) for any change so we can cancel or move things.

Having just done universal with Dd - there's very little universal could do to make us jump ship. We visited Universal Hollywood for 1 day this year, that was enough. Mostly so DD could see the Wizarding World and we could try Super Mario World.

SMW was pretty to look at, but so difficult for our DD to access - both the powerband games (Too much force required for her to do on her own and she doesn't like being helped) and the Mario kart attraction. For Mario kart, the helmet was too heavy for DD to even wear, so she got virtually nothing out of the whole ride, and while DH and I wanted to love it the VR really took away from the actual physical set designs and effects for us. We rode it twice, using their disability system (so waiting each time) trying to give it a second chance and we all left underwhelmed.
Wizarding World was great. She loved that. She was willing to let us help her with the wand motions because everyone was having to work to learn the wand motions. She could ride both attractions, loved them both. The rest of the park was ok. None of us left with a need to return. We will go to UO so she can do diagon alley, but most of IOA is not very accessible to her as coasters are a big question mark. She just did Space at DLR this year, and only because we can ride side by side in arms reach. She won't ride it at WDW for a long time yet.

The accessibility is what keeps us or makes us jump ship. We won't likely ever be huge Universal visitors because of it. If Disney makes accessibility difficult, that's what will make returns difficult - not epic universe.

 

[SueM in MN]

I posted earlier that through DAS, applicants could receive a special and exclusive identifier that a doctor would use. The doc would have to put his state license number on the document. All of the doc's license numbers are on computers and could be checked. I just looked and found the search site for my state in 1 minute. Promise that if someone tried to scam this kind of document, the scammers would end up arrested, go to trial, and end up in prison. Doctors don't play and neither would Disney.

I will just say that in some Facebook threads about Universal's process, some people were posting that they had also searched for the license numbers so they could add it to their doctor letter. So, did the doctor write the letter or the person?
Most doctors are honest, but some are not. It wouldn't help with the what I would call 'rent-a-doctors' who would write up whatever the person paid them for.
There was kind of a big Medicare Fraud case many years ago that involved commercials for wheelchairs and scooters for elderly people. The commercials promised to get elderly people a 'free' mobility device paid for by Medicare. All you had to do was answer a few questions for their 'telephone doctor' and a mobility device would be sent to you 'free of charge' (actually paid for by Medicare). At the time I was a Home Care RN and one of my patients told me he was anxiously awaiting his wife's new wheelchair so they could go out easier and she could use it in the house. When it came, it was not the portable manual wheelchair they expected. It was a scooter that they couldn't get into their house because they had several steps to get in.
They also couldn't get it in their car because it was not one that broke down for transport.
The company wouldn't take it back and they couldn't get what they actually needed from Medicare because a mobility device had already been provided by Medicare.

And, the biggest point is that Disney doesn't want to get into legal and logistical problems of obtaining and verification of medical information

Agree, I'm all for doctor's notes, but as others have stated if they aren't verified, they do no good. I was under the impression the 3rd party for Universal did verify them, but from comments here, maybe not.

The main thing is that there are too many differences between the two parks for Disney to simply adopt what Universal is doing, and I'm not sure it is actually any better anyway. Universal is pretty strict about passes. The 3rd party approving you really means nothing. It's a general card you get with your needs. It's good at a number of different parks, and each of those parks will interpret it and accommodate differently. You still have to interview with Universal, and it is possible they will deny you. Universal is firm on if it is a physical issue you can rent a wheelchair or scooter, no exceptions. If you can't wait, you can buy EP. That's their main recommendation by EP. You have to really convince them why you can't wait in a 5 to 15 minute EP line to get a pass. Some people have reported having to buy EP first to prove that that isn't the reason they want the pass.

So Universal is removing a huge number of guests by telling them to just buy EP, that would never work at Disney because Disney has nothing equivalent to EP. Genie & LL do not compare to a pass that is good for unlimited rides on all but one ride in both parks. Plus, they are forcing disabled people to purchase EP which again would not go over well at Disney.

I believe that the company Universal uses probably does some spot checks. With the information they are asking for, they give the illusion of verification, but don't actually verify many.
I have only seen one account of someone who was turned down for the card, but after sending something else, he was accepted. I have seen MANY angry accounts of people who were approved for the Access Card, but totally turned down for any accommodations by Universal.
So, the card is kind of useless

 

[OurBigTrip]

Because waiting with a developmental disability guest is different and much more difficult

Not trying to minimize anyone’s needs, but in my mind, it’s the issue of waiting outside the line in case something happens, and waiting outside the line because waiting in the line actually causes something to happen.

 

[lowlight]

Because waiting with a developmental disability guest is different and much more difficult

Shouldn’t you add “for some”? I thought we weren’t making a disability hierarchy here?

 

[RamblinWreck]

Not trying to minimize anyone’s needs, but in my mind, it’s the issue of waiting outside the line in case something happens, and waiting outside the line because waiting in the line actually causes something to happen.

I’m not so sure.

Waiting in the line may trigger something to happen for people with claustrophobia or similar anxieties. But waiting outside the line, separated from some number of party members, won’t be a big deal.

That’s a tougher ask for a lot of developmental disabilities.

 

[Jdavidm]

Not trying to minimize anyone’s needs, but in my mind, it’s the issue of waiting outside the line in case something happens, and waiting outside the line because waiting in the line actually causes something to happen.

I still feel like this is the main point of these new changes and preserving DAS for those who need to avoid queues at all times in order to have any chance of a comparably equal experience to those without a disability.

Regardless of what your disability is, if the queue itself isn’t causing the issue, they’re looking for another way to accommodate you. They did this in the past when they made lines wheelchair accessible for mobility disabilities. At one point a mobility disability DID get you exit entry but due to changes they made, that’s no longer the case.

Whether these new accommodations will work for people is still to be seen. If it’s a mess and works for no one, I imagine they will quickly realize that and adjust. However, I think an accommodation other than DAS will work for SOME people.

Also an interesting point I’ve been meaning to mention: lots of other theme parks have “levels” or “different” types of accommodations.

Universal and Six Flags, for example. Six Flags actually still has one that’s immediate boarding through the exit. Universal has one that’s immediate express entry. The opposite end is a return time system. Not everyone is getting the same type of accommodation at these parks either. The type assigned is needs based.

I’m honestly surprised Disney went so long with only one type of accommodation that applied to everyone.