Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

momincolorado

Earning My Ears
Joined
May 25, 2018
I think the travel credit idea is precisely to curb cc chargebacks! But the question is, how much will the travel credit be worth if David's goes bankrupt? How difficult will it be to rebook the renters? The renters will have expiring tickets or APs (yes, I know disney will extend APs for the parks' closure duration) so you would need to fit that resort reservation within that window.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I’ll leave the legal interpretation to those with law degrees. Lacking any concrete language that defines what happens when actions occur outside of the control of both renter and owner, the onus appears to fall on the party that drafted the agreement(s).

Whether you’re on the hook for 0%, 30% or 100% of what David’s collected on your behalf continues to be debatable.
It’s why I used the word I would be on the hook, not owners on the hook because it is how I interpret the contract I agreed to,

Yes, it’s on David’s, but if they determine they have a right to hold it back...and since reports are they are and I can’t believe they didn’t seek legal advice before doing that...an owner is out of luck, regardless of their own interpretation without filing a suit to get it.
 
  • McCrae

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2009
    i wonder how many people are impacted by this and what the total value we are talking about?
     

    tallguy001

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 1, 2012
    i wonder how many people are impacted by this and what the total value we are talking about?
    ‘Good question. Seems like David is, to be generous, struggling with this batch of closures. The shoe is going to drop soon on another closure of a minimum of 9 days (based on local curfews).
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    i wonder how many people are impacted by this and what the total value we are talking about?
    I wonder too, April is a big Spring break time. I think they are assuming that most of those are in jeopardy so it was a good proactive way to get a jump on this before it’s officially announced,

    Less angry renters, I would love to know from owners who this impacts to see if there is a change in the release of 30% if an owner can’t or won’t reschedule or rent the points again.
     

    McCrae

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2009
    I wonder too, April is a big Spring break time. I think they are assuming that most of those are in jeopardy so it was a good proactive way to get a jump on this before it’s officially announced,

    Less angry renters, I would love to know from owners who this impacts to see if there is a change in the release of 30% if an owner can’t or won’t reschedule or rent the points again.
    I am an owner with a reservation due over Easter. My thoughts are to offer to rebook or offer a return of the final payment due at check in. Although I don’t think I am obligated to, I would like to help if I can.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I am an owner with a reservation due over Easter. My thoughts are to offer to rebook or offer a return of the final payment due at check in. Although I don’t think I am obligated to, I would like to help if I can.
    Keep us posted to what his solution in all of this is for you as an owners, I have read elsewhere that owners have been told they are not getting the 30% and then being asked to either send back the 70% or offer the points for rental again.

    So, given this new option to renters, I wonder what the stance will be nowGranted , he has no way of doing anything other than not releasing the 30%..which is going to cause an issue of trust with owners down the road
     

    Dracula

    Not so scary
    DVC Premium
    Joined
    Jul 19, 2010
    I can't see David's not refunding. How can they ask the member to refund and not refund their portion?
    Because he may have used those proceeds to pay his staff?
    Would be surprised if David is not, at this very moment, dipping into the 30% payments retained for owners to compensate renters. Would that make his business a pyramid scheme?
     
    Last edited:

    MICKIMINI

    Love the Mouse!
    Joined
    Sep 6, 2003
    Because he may have used those proceed to pay his staff?
    Would be surprised if David is not, at this very moment, dipping into the 30% payments retained for owners to compensate renters. Would that make his business a pyramid scheme?
    Like the 30% In am expecting from my October and January rentals? I would say most likely. I'm just sick about even having pending rentals coming up and there is nothing I can do as an owner except wait and see...I can't refund even if it would make me feel better.
     

    tallguy001

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 1, 2012
    Guessing most of this will be figured out by a bankruptcy trustee. Long-term resort closures are the one thing he never counted on in putting together these contracts. He is in trouble from both sides. The upcoming second wave of closures will be brutal for him.

    This then puts into doubt any future contracts, when everything is back up and running, where he is unable to pay the 30% to owners upon check-in.
     

    Dracula

    Not so scary
    DVC Premium
    Joined
    Jul 19, 2010
    Like the 30% In am expecting from my October and January rentals? I would say most likely. I'm just sick about even having pending rentals coming up and there is nothing I can do as an owner except wait and see...I can't refund even if it would make me feel better.
    So, assume hypothetically that you do not get the 30% for the first rental in October. At this point David's is in default, and all your other contracts with him should be reviewed. Would you consider taking any action for the January rentals to limit your losses there? After all, the January renter should have the option to charge back
     

    MICKIMINI

    Love the Mouse!
    Joined
    Sep 6, 2003
    Oh dear, I just don't want the conflict as I paid the broker so I would not have any. Not getting paid for October would certainly give me leverage for January, so I believe I could collect the 30%. Now as far as January goes, there is no leverage as I won't be renting points again. so nothing in the pipeline. I have supplied six rentals in the past year, so not paying me 30% for January would be biting the hand that feeds him. That said, if that is all I lose out of this mess, oh well it would be totally unfair but we don't need the balance to eat, but it won't be without a diplomatic phone call with the broker personally. I would also make a phone call to the renter after check in so they know what is going on - I would expect a call if it were me and no I would not ask for anything financially.
     

    Lewisc

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 23, 2000
    With all due respect to David, he cannot unilaterally determine that a contract is not valid.
    David's, presumably with the assistance of counsel, drafted the agreement. As such I give David's interpretation, as well as common sense reading of the context, a lot more credibility then random, anonymous, posters on an internet forum.

    Regardless renters will undoubtedly first be seeking resolution from David's. Assuming David's wants to stay in business they'll have to work with owners subject to the limitations of their contracts. David's concern is how many members rented expiring points and what action, if any, Disney will be taking to assist owners with expiring points.
     

    tallguy001

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 1, 2012
    The latest update:
    “We have no plan but desperately need to post something and stop the bleeding. We surely have no way to make this math work with a finite # of DVC points available. We haven’t even written the plan yet because it is impossible to pull off. We’ll reach out in several days/months with maybe something. Terms and conditions will apply meaning you can only book Saratoga Springs standard rooms during the 2 weeks after New Years. Thanks for not suing us! Love, David”
     

    CraigInPA

    Since June 1974
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2012
    David's, presumably with the assistance of counsel, drafted the agreement. As such I give David's interpretation, as well as common sense reading of the context, a lot more credibility then random, anonymous, posters on an internet forum.
    If David used an attorney to draft that contract, I'd be VERY surprised. It's clear that Force Majeure is vital part of the contract, and it's missing. History has previous closures of DVC resorts through Hurricanes, so it's not a surprise that a resort could close. If he actually did use an attorney, he may be able to sue the attorney for errors and omissions. Attorneys (at least here in Pennsylvania) have to have an error and omissions policy in order to practice. Allow it to lapse, and you'll be in front of the local bar facing disciplinary action.
     

    CraigInPA

    Since June 1974
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2012
    Because he may have used those proceeds to pay his staff?
    Would be surprised if David is not, at this very moment, dipping into the 30% payments retained for owners to compensate renters. Would that make his business a pyramid scheme?
    Not a pyramid scheme, but clearly a desperate measure which relies upon future income to pay debts from today. A lot of businesses operate this way, relying upon their creditors to practice forbearance in getting paid in a timely manner. The challenge here is that such a scheme will require David's to earmark a portion of future proceeds to clean up the accumulated liability of this, which may jeopardize his ability to pay staff and other bills. The other issue here is that it relies upon DVC members to believe that he is financially solvent and that future rentals will be paid on time and in full. If that confidence is broken, the whole thing will collapse like a house of cards.
     

    DGsAtBLT

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 10, 2017
    “We have no plan but desperately need to post something and stop the bleeding. We surely have no way to make this math work with a finite # of DVC points available. We haven’t even written the plan yet because it is impossible to pull off. We’ll reach out in several days/months with maybe something. Terms and conditions will apply meaning you can only book Saratoga Springs standard rooms during the 2 weeks after New Years. Thanks for not suing us! Love, David”
    Lots of people seem quite happy with that in the comments. Better for those of us who aren’t I guess.
     

    tallguy001

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 1, 2012
    Lots of people seem quite happy with that in the comments. Better for those of us who aren’t I guess.
    I’ve noticed that as well. I doubt they realize the difficult threading of the needle any plan like this would take or the realities of the points system. DVC can’t create points of out midair. David is looking for some breathing room. The post seems to have calmed people down, but the underlying issues still remain.
     

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