Favreau Enters Negotiations for Lucasfilm President

[BrianL]

There are plenty of reports she was active in oversight of the movies from a creative standpoint.

Yeah, but it's unlikely that she heavily influenced details, more like approved them. She may have given some general direction notes, but she didn't write anything. She did put the team in place who did and to some that means they should blame her for everything. For me, it means I should thank her for a great job.

 

[YesterDark]

You're just baiting me now.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

I so hope this is true! If not, I'm happy that we'll soon be rid of Kennedy. Her trilogy was a un-cohesive, confusing, hot mess. It really wasn't even a trilogy, but two directors bumping into each other in the hall, scattering their stuff everywhere.

 

[coaster32]

Box office receipts would disagree. And at the end of the day, thats really what matters to company’s. I agree its time for a change in leadership, but she did what she was asked to do. Make Disney a ton of money

You could have Yoda cutting the cheese and make $500m on a Star Wars film, so please lets not use box office as a measuring stick! With the exception of Rogue One, all of the latest round of SW films have been mediocre to above average at best......none memorable.....unfortunately...

 

[ElyseInWonderland]

"Yoda cutting the cheese"- I LOL'ed.
'Farted, I have..."

But seriously, it's time for Kathleen Kennedy to move on. I respect that she's done her best, but I'm ready to see someone else's take on the franchise. They struck gold with the creative team of The Mandalorian- let's have more of that!

 

[BrianL]

I still can't really understand what's so incohesive about it. Episode VIII picked up on threads from VII and IX picked up on threads from VIII.

The Force Awakens
The resistance is searching for Luke who has gone into hiding after his failed Jedi academy was lost.
Rey & Finn form a friendship, as do Finn & Poe (maybe slightly oddly not Rey & Poe).
The First Order decimates the New Republic leaving only the small Resistance to fight them.
Kylo Ren is shown to be prone to fits of rage and solidifies his ties to the Dark Side by murdering his father and letting go of the past.
Rey goes to Luke in exile.

The Last Jedi
Luke is reluctant to train another student after his failure with Ben Solo (as established in the previous).
The Resistance is on the run and Poe is being brash with their limited resources.
Kylo Ren destroys his helmet in a fit of rage (as established in the previous).
The Finn & Rose mission does improtatn character work and isn't really incnsistent, but perhaps a little bit of a meander.
Kylo Ren connects to Rey (mysteriously) and tries to convince her to see his side - to let go of the past which has become an important philosophy for him (as established in the previous).
Kylo Ren kills Snoke and assumes control of the First Order but Rey resists his offer to rule by his side.
Rey is told that her parents were "nobody" as he was told by Snoke, but she doesn't necessarily believe that it is true (the tone is duplicitous). The theme is that we create our own destiny.
Luke realizes that he has been wrong and must step forward to help, which he does by buying time for the Resistance to escape by playing on Kylo Ren's (established) rage.

The Rise of Skywalker
Supreme Leader Ren is in charge of the First Order (as established in the previous)
It turns out Palpatine was behind everything (a bit out of left field but it works), including Snoke, and is who connected Rey and Kylo Ren (as established in the previous).
Kylo's repair of his helmet is symbolic of his reconnection to The Sith proper (this was always just about showing Adam Driver's face - don't hide the money maker, right?)
The quest to find Exegol leads Rey to another vision of a dark future for her if she follows this path (as shown previously).
Rey leanrs that her parents really were "nobody" as they were in hiding because her father descended from Palpatine - a clever twist (but not inconsistent, intentional or not)
Rey runs to exile, as is pretty much par for the course for the Jedi (as established in the OT).
Luke's spirit approaches Rey and says that he was wrong to be afraid to train her (as established in the previous). Luke had already learned this which is why he helped on Crait.
Kylo Ren faces what he did through a vision of his father and is finally rejects the Dark Side completely.
Palpatine manipulated everythign to draw Rey to him but she defeats him by embracing her true nature as a Jedi.


Now it's totally fair to criticise the story points, the narrative, the execution, but to me it seems like "inconsistent" is just an argument made as shorthand for "I don't like it" because "if I didn't like it how could it possible have been done well?" By the same measuring stick the OT was incohesive.

A New Hope
Luke is sweet on Leia and there is a love triangle.
Darth Vader is not Luke's father.
The Emperor is not mentioned.

The Empire Strikes Back
Luke kisses Leia and seems pretty proud of himself
Suddenly Darth Vader has a boss
Darth Vader is Luke's Father

Return of the Jedi
Luke has a sister and it is Leia

Lucas didn't have a full plan either, BUT - everything totally works of course, "form a certain point of view." That's why I just can't understand the harping on the Sequel Trilogy over this stuff. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled Kathleen Kennedy bashing....

 

[The Pho]

A New Hope
Luke is sweet on Leia and there is a love triangle.
Darth Vader is not Luke's father.
The Emporer is not mentioned.

The Empire Strikes Back
Luke kisses Leia and seems pretty proud of himself
Suddenly Darth Vader has a boss
Darth Vader is Luke's Father

The Emperor is mentioned by Tarkin in A New Hope about 35 minutes into the film.

“The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.”

Even without that, Tarkin already acts like Vader’s equal/superior at times. We’re never really lead to believe Vader is in charge of everything.

Palpatine/The Emperor does have some presence in all nine films. His voice is in Force Awakens, and Luke mentions him in Last Jedi. Had those been tweaked somewhat, his jarring revival could actually have fit.

 

[BrianL]

The Emperor is mentioned by Tarkin in A New Hope about 35 minutes into the film.

“The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.”

Even without that, Tarkin already acts like Vader’s equal/superior at times. We’re never really lead to believe Vader is in charge of everything.

Palpatine/The Emperor does have some presence in all nine films. His voice is in Force Awakens, and Luke mentions him in Last Jedi. Had those been tweaked somewhat, his jarring revival could actually have fit.

True, you're right, the Emperor was mentioned. I never really thought of Tarkin as Vader's boss, though he was the Death Star's boss. Vader exists outside of the military command structure entirely.

I can agree that the Sequels could use just a tad more fleshing out in some areas. There are parts that kind of rely on extraneous Star Wars knowledge or something from a book a little too much. I don't think that makes it inconsistent though, just slightly clunky. Maybe one day they will do new Special Editions of all 9 films.

 

[MickeyBalloons]

He also talked during one of the Star Wars Nights, he's so thoughtful, every little and large detail in the land has a purpose, either blatant, like the falcon or small like the pottery inside the RotR queue. It's all pretty amazing when you take the time but of course, not everyone will do that and that's fine. I've always said the land is like an onion. Anyways i had a lovely 5 minute convo with him and got one of my most prized pics

Great photo! that must have been out of this world.

 

[TommyJK]

True, you're right, the Emperor was mentioned. I never really thought of Tarkin as Vader's boss, though he was the Death Star's boss. Vader exists outside of the military command structure entirely.

I can agree that the Sequels could use just a tad more fleshing out in some areas. There are parts that kind of rely on extraneous Star Wars knowledge or something from a book a little too much. I don't think that makes it inconsistent though, just slightly clunky. Maybe one day they will do new Special Editions of all 9 films.

"A tad more fleshing out in some areas" is a massive understatement and ultimately what made the sequel series' constant 180's a mess. If the swerves brought up in TLJ that were "shocking" but unique (Snoke getting overthrown for Ren to take over, Rey being revealed that her parents were nobody special - the strong seeds planted that people could randomly be strong with the force etc.) and ran with it in the new direction they paved, then perhaps the last film that was supposed to bring this decades long saga to a satisfactory close would have made the whole 3 film arc more coherent.

Instead they listened to the vocal minority of whiners from TLJ and did another full 180 to try an appease them and brought back Palpatine with no real explanation of how he survived, who all of these throngs of followers were, how they managed to rebuild a rediculously large fleet of planet destroying star destroyers out in the middle of nowhere (with what resources and from where that not even The First Order knew about it?). They also decided to 180 Ray's parents so it's now Palpatine, again with no explanation on how he managed that. And let's make the majority of the movie a red herring video game-esque fetch quest of "Find item A, so we can then find item B, so we can then figure out C, but in the end it didn't matter because they just hijacked Ren's ship for the same purpose. Down further just to other senseless switcheroos like Chewy's emotional death (oh he was just on another ship we didn't see), or C-3PO's emotional sacrifice (oh we have a backup!)......

IMO it's well beyond "just slightly clunky".

 

[BrianL]

"A tad more fleshing out in some areas" is a massive understatement and ultimately what made the sequel series' constant 180's a mess. If the swerves brought up in TLJ that were "shocking" but unique (Snoke getting overthrown for Ren to take over, Rey being revealed that her parents were nobody special - the strong seeds planted that people could randomly be strong with the force etc.) and ran with it in the new direction they paved, then perhaps the last film that was supposed to bring this decades long saga to a satisfactory close would have made the whole 3 film arc more coherent.

Instead they listened to the vocal minority of whiners from TLJ and did another full 180 to try an appease them and brought back Palpatine with no real explanation of how he survived, who all of these throngs of followers were, how they managed to rebuild a rediculously large fleet of planet destroying star destroyers out in the middle of nowhere (with what resources and from where that not even The First Order knew about it?). And instead decided to 180 Ray's parents so it's now Palpatine, again with no explanation on how he managed that. And let's make the majority of the movie a red herring video game-esque fetch quest of "Find item A, so we can then find item B, so we can then figure out C, but in the end it didn't matter because they just hijacked Ren's ship for the same purpose. Down further just to other senseless switcheroos like Chewy's emotional death (oh he was just on another ship we didn't see), or C-3PO's emotional sacrifice (oh we have a backup!)......

IMO it's well beyond "just slightly clunky".

I don't really see it as 180s - I think it's just a rollercoaster ride. I've already explained how I see it, regardless of whether it was planned or not it worked for me. It's not inconsistent, but I do agree the backstory could have used just a bit more fleshing out. The idea that any random person can be strong with the force was already well established before the TLJ so I really don't know why that rankles some fans so much. I think it's clear that Ren was being misleading about Rey's parents, or as it turns out he was misled himself. It never rang true to begin with so the revelation that it wasn't true wasn't much of a shock. Movies are full of that kind of stuff.

Your other criticisms on TROS are totally fair, though they don't bother me. I rather enjoyed it myself and loved seeing Palps no matter what.

 

[TommyJK]

I don't really see it as 180s - I think it's just a rollercoaster ride. I've already explained how I see it, regardless of whether it was planned or not it worked for me. It's not inconsistent, but I do agree the backstory could have used just a bit more fleshing out. The idea that any random person can be strong with the force was already well established before the TLJ so I really don't know why that rankles some fans so much. I think it's clear that Ren was being misleading about Rey's parents, or as it turns out he was misled himself. It never rang true to begin with so the revelation that it wasn't true wasn't much of a shock. Movies are full of that kind of stuff.

Your other criticisms on TROS are totally fair, though they don't bother me. I rather enjoyed it myself and loved seeing Palps no matter what.

I agree that the idea that anyone could be strong with the force has always been there, but they pushed it as a key narrative in TLJ both with Rey's supposed parentage as well as the sub story of the stable boy at the end. To then retcon it back to Rey being Palpatine's grand daughter after they pushed the opposite in TLJ to me is a complete 180. Ren taking the reigns of power for himself by turning on his master Snoke and setting him up to be the ultimate antagonist of the series, only to then bring back Palpatine into the narrative out of nowhere to be the key antagonist to me is again a complete 180 from what they setup.

Whether or not that's the direction they had planned from the start, or changed entirely on the fly from movie to movie (the latter of which I believe to be the case), massively hurt the trilogy as a whole IMO.

 

[BrianL]

I agree that the idea that anyone could be strong with the force has always been there, but they pushed it as a key narrative in TLJ both with Rey's supposed parentage as well as the sub story of the stable boy at the end. To then retcon it back to Rey being Palpatine's grand daughter after they pushed the opposite in TLJ to me is a complete 180. Ren taking the reigns of power for himself by turning on his master Snoke and setting him up to be the ultimate antagonist of the series, only to then bring back Palpatine into the narrative out of nowhere to be the key antagonist to me is again a complete 180 from what they setup.

Whether or not that's the direction they had planned from the start, or changed entirely on the fly from movie to movie (the latter of which I believe to be the case), massively hurt the trilogy as a whole IMO.

Fair enough - I just don't see it that way. It always seemed to me that Kylo was lying (or lied to) and I thought the way they explained that worked well. Kylo always had to turn back to the light, so him bieng the big-bad would never had worked. I suspected Snoke was still alive somehow anyway, but it turned out to be Palps. Any excuse to hear Ian McDiarmid cackle maniacally works for me!

 

[LizzyS]

There are certainly legitimate criticisms of the way the sequel trilogy was handled. I for one, wish they had met during development and come up with a cohesive story from the beginning instead of making it up as they went along. However, Star Wars as a franchise has done very well under the Disney umbrella with Kathy at the helm. I don’t see them firing her unless she becomes the center of some huge scandal. I do believe she will move on at the end of her contract, but as someone else mentioned there is quite some time before that happens.

This is it right here. I love the ST, but TROS was a disappointment for me overall because the basic story threads were not laid out since TFA nor followed from TLJ, at least. I even feel like TROS would have been a better movie if they'd spent another year making it, even with the same people at the helm/writing.

Lucas didn't know he'd get to make a trilogy when he was making ANH. If you *know* you're making a trilogy from the jump, I'd think the basic story would be set from the beginning (or at least it should be and I want to see less "seat of the pants"-type stuff).

 

[LizzyS]

Fair enoug - I just don't see it that way. It always seemed to me that Kylo was lying (or lied to) and I though the way they explained that worked well. Kylo always had to turn back to the light, so him bieng the big-bad would never had worked. I suspected Snoke was still alive somehow anyway, but it turned out to be Palps. Any excuse to hear Ian McDiarmid cackle maniacally works for me!

I honestly have to admit I hate "Your parents were nobody because they had to be".

 

[BrianL]

I honestly have to admit I hate "Your parents were nobody because they had to be".

Well, I liked it. I thought it was clever. Also, I'm really noit sure why "planned out" automatically makes it better - sometimes shifts are made during the process for better or worse. Lucas even pivoted away from Jar JAr in the prequels - would you have rather had more Jar Jar? I mean, I would've, but I love that goofy Gungan!

 

[YesterDark]

I still can't really understand what's so incohesive about it. Episode VIII picked up on threads from VII and IX picked up on threads from VIII.

The Force Awakens
The resistance is searching for Luke who has gone into hiding after his failed Jedi academy was lost.
Rey & Finn form a friendship, as do Finn & Poe (maybe slightly oddly not Rey & Poe).
The First Order decimates the New Republic leaving only the small Resistance to fight them.
Kylo Ren is shown to be prone to fits of rage and solidifies his ties to the Dark Side by murdering his father and letting go of the past.
Rey goes to Luke in exile.

The Last Jedi
Luke is reluctant to train another student after his failure with Ben Solo (as established in the previous).
The Resistance is on the run and Poe is being brash with their limited resources.
Kylo Ren destroys his helmet in a fit of rage (as established in the previous).
The Finn & Rose mission does improtatn character work and isn't really incnsistent, but perhaps a little bit of a meander.
Kylo Ren connects to Rey (mysteriously) and tries to convince her to see his side - to let go of the past which has become an important philosophy for him (as established in the previous).
Kylo Ren kills Snoke and assumes control of the First Order but Rey resists his offer to rule by his side.
Rey is told that her parents were "nobody" as he was told by Snoke, but she doesn't necessarily believe that it is true (the tone is duplicitous). The theme is that we create our own destiny.
Luke realizes that he has been wrong and must step forward to help, which he does by buying time for the Resistance to escape by playing on Kylo Ren's (established) rage.

The Rise of Skywalker
Supreme Leader Ren is in charge of the First Order (as established in the previous)
It turns out Palpatine was behind everything (a bit out of left field but it works), including Snoke, and is who connected Rey and Kylo Ren (as established in the previous).
Kylo's repair of his helmet is symbolic of his reconnection to The Sith proper (this was always just about showing Adam Driver's face - don't hide the money maker, right?)
The quest to find Exegol leads Rey to another vision of a dark future for her if she follows this path (as shown previously).
Rey leanrs that her parents really were "nobody" as they were in hiding because her father descended from Palpatine - a clever twist (but not inconsistent, intentional or not)
Rey runs to exile, as is pretty much par for the course for the Jedi (as established in the OT).
Luke's spirit approaches Rey and says that he was wrong to be afraid to train her (as established in the previous). Luke had already learned this which is why he helped on Crait.
Kylo Ren faces what he did through a vision of his father and is finally rejects the Dark Side completely.
Palpatine manipulated everythign to draw Rey to him but she defeats him by embracing her true nature as a Jedi.


Now it's totally fair to criticise the story points, the narrative, the execution, but to me it seems like "inconsistent" is just an argument made as shorthand for "I don't like it" because "if I didn't like it how could it possible have been done well?" By the same measuring stick the OT was incohesive.

A New Hope
Luke is sweet on Leia and there is a love triangle.
Darth Vader is not Luke's father.
The Emperor is not mentioned.

The Empire Strikes Back
Luke kisses Leia and seems pretty proud of himself
Suddenly Darth Vader has a boss
Darth Vader is Luke's Father

Return of the Jedi
Luke has a sister and it is Leia

Lucas didn't have a full plan either, BUT - everything totally works of course, "form a certain point of view." That's why I just can't understand the harping on the Sequel Trilogy over this stuff. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled Kathleen Kennedy bashing....

I would love to respond point for point on why the sequels were poorly written but it's a long discussion and I wouldn't do it proper justice. If you're really interested watch this video and perhaps some of the other videos referenced in it:

It's a 2 hour video, but over half of it covers a "what I would do if I were making the sequels" which is somewhat interesting with a bad ending. If you want to understand the inconsistencies and plot holes listen to the first half hour or so. It does a pretty good job laying out the argument better than I could on a message board.

 

[BrianL]

I would love to respond point for point on why the sequels were poorly written but it's a long discussion and I wouldn't do it proper justice. If you're really interested watch this video and perhaps some of the other videos referenced in it:

It's a 2 hour video, but over half of it covers a "what I would do if I were making the sequels" which is somewhat interesting with a bad ending. If you want to understand the inconsistencies and plot holes listen to the first half hour or so. It does a pretty good job laying out the argument better than I could on a message board.

I've heard the argument - I just don't agree with it. People like to equate "I didn't like it" with "plot holes." It's 100% fair to say "I didn't enjoy it because of how they sidelined Luke and made him a recluse" or whatever. That's just an opinion. However to say that "it doesn't make any sense for Luke to have run away to become a recluse" doesn't hold true. The movies explain WHY - some poeple just didn't like the reason. That doesn't make it inconsistent within the narrative of the movie or the saga. It is very consistent with the OT (maybe a little too consistent for my tastes). Of course if everyone who trashes the sequels didn't hold up the OT as some kind of absolute paragon of perfection that might not quite rankle me so.

 

[LizzyS]

Well, I liked it. I thought it was clever. Also, I'm really noit sure why "planned out" automatically makes it better - sometimes shifts are made during the process for better or worse. Lucas even pivoted away from Jar JAr in the prequels - would you have rather had more Jar Jar? I mean, I would've, but I love that goofy Gungan!

And that's fine. Let me be clear and say that I really wish that I loved TROS and am envious of anyone who did. I was primed to love it, but I don't feel like they did a good job telling the story they decided to tell and that's heartbreaking considering they billed it as the finale to the Skywalker Saga. I disliked TROS because I love, love, love the ST's first two installments so much.

 

[TommyJK]

And that's fine. Let me be clear and say that I really wish that I loved TROS and am envious of anyone who did. I was primed to love it, but I don't feel like they did a good job telling the story they decided to tell and that's heartbreaking considering they billed it as the finale to the Skywalker Saga. I disliked TROS because I love, love, love the ST's first two installments so much.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. While maybe not as much love as you for TFA and TLJ, but I thoroughly enjoyed them.