Guests Stuck on Monorail When Doors Fail to Open

[mshanson3121]

Why are you being so aggressive? He has his opinion and you have yours.

The monorails need replacing and the CM(s) hold some responsibility in this incident.

And let's be honest, a stuck door is not exactly extreme malfunctioning. Happens every single day on the El lines in Chicago.

I didn't say it was. I'm referring to other incidents.

 

[umichigan10]

I understand. I disagree there is clear neglect. Disney has in fact been working on such but these investments take time and when working with a third party some aspects are not in their control. In this instance Bombardier is not the easiest company to work this.

Disney is still investing in these existing trains. Most of them have gotten refurbishments over the last few years and the ones which haven’t will be getting them soon. Anytime there is an issue that monorail is immediately taken out of service and inspected and fixed. If Disney didn’t care at all they wouldn’t fix them or refurb them.

I am completely with everyone here saying they need to be replaced because they do. These trains are past their life span but it’s not too much different from any other mode of transportation. The older something gets the more issues it has and you fix them until you can replace it.

I think this issue isn’t as blatant in regard to their neglect. The one that sticks out to me is earlier this year when a piece fell off and nearly hit someone in the Epcot parking lot. For me that raised the red flag big time. And when the door got stuck open and an alarm wasn’t triggered flaked me out as well.

Obviously with a mass transit system this big and with this volume will have some issues. But it’s frustrating when we talk about Disney and their record profits every quarter that they haven’t invested the capital for new trains. Even if it was a a couple of new ones here and there, it’d show more that they understand that this generation needs to be retired and that they’re working on it

 

[rteetz]

It is and you are.

Let's change the scenario:

Your child dies in a plane crash because the plane was aging and had not been well maintained. The company knew the fleet was aging, that it needed to be replaced, but it just kept trying to patch things up for the sake of the almighty dollar.

You think you'll still be saying: "If the planes were truly unsafe they wouldn't run them. Malfunctions and safety concerns can and will happen with any mode of transportation brand." Insert a careless shoulder shrug here.

No. You're going to be angry as heck at a company that was arguably criminally negligent.

Extreme? Perhaps. But Disney has known the system is aging for a long time and has done nothing but try and patch things up enough to get by. In recent years they have had malfunctions that could have resulted in serious or death. They've thankfully gotten lucky. Just because everything malfunctions, doesn't make this okay. Which yes, is what your comment comes across as implying.

I’m done with this argument.

 

[rteetz]

I think this issue isn’t as blatant in regard to their neglect. The one that sticks out to me is earlier this year when a piece fell off and nearly hit someone in the Epcot parking lot. For me that raised the red flag big time. And when the door got stuck open and an alarm wasn’t triggered flaked me out as well.

Obviously with a mass transit system this big and with this volume will have some issues. But it’s frustrating when we talk about Disney and their record profits every quarter that they haven’t invested the capital for new trains. Even if it was a a couple of new ones here and there, it’d show more that they understand that this generation needs to be retired and that they’re working on it

I don’t disagree by any means. Due to the nature of the upgrade they can’t really do a one at a time upgrade because new trains would be different. Disney needs to upgrade the infrastructure with new trains as well. It is frustrating but unfortunately this is something that isn’t going to change overnight.

 

[umichigan10]

I don’t disagree by any means. Due to the nature of the upgrade they can’t really do a one at a time upgrade because new trains would be different. Disney needs to upgrade the infrastructure with new trains as well. It is frustrating but unfortunately this is something that isn’t going to change overnight.

That’s true I hadn’t even considered that. I’m just hoping that there is something in the works, as was alluded to earlier this year but has kinda simmered off

 

[rteetz]

That’s true I hadn’t even considered that. I’m just hoping that there is something in the works, as was alluded to earlier this year but has kinda simmered off

They are still working on things but as I said before Bombardier isn’t quick and often delays projects.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Why are you being so aggressive? He has his opinion and you have yours.

The monorails need replacing and the CM(s) hold some responsibility in this incident.

And let's be honest, a stuck door is not exactly extreme malfunctioning. Happens every single day on the El lines in Chicago.

During otherwise normal operation, no, a stuck door is no big deal.The fact that guests couldn't get any help is a HUGE deal.

During an emergency, say an electrical fire due to deteriorating wiring on an old, malfunctioning train- that stuck door will cose people their lives.

 

[rteetz]

During otherwise normal operation, no, a stuck door is no big deal.The fact that guests couldn't get any help is a HUGE deal.

During an emergency, say an electrical fire due to deteriorating wiring on an old, malfunctioning train- that stuck door will cose people their lives.

Which goes back to the CM error I was talking about.

I think my biggest problem with this argument here is all the speculation or what if this or what if that. Yes there are certainly issues but I think things are being over exaggerated a bit. We are unfortunately stuck with these monorails for at least a few more years.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Which goes back to the CM error I was talking about.

I think my biggest problem with this argument here is all the speculation or what if this or what if that. Yes there are certainly issues but I think things are being over exaggerated a bit. We are unfortunately stuck with these monorails for at least a few more years.

You can brush off the speculation all you want, but with a place as massive as Disney, with as many guests as they have, they have to be proactive in preventing those scenarios. The doors failed during normal operation, how will they perform under emergency conditions? Bad things happen, and odds are that something bad will eventually happen at Disney. They need to keep their equipment performing at its best in order to prevent tragedy. I maintain that they should have prevented this by ordering a new fleet years ago.

 

[rteetz]

You can brush off the speculation all you want, but with a place as massive as Disney, with as many guests as they have, they have to be proactive in preventing those scenarios. The doors failed during normal operation, how will they perform under emergency conditions? Bad things happen, and odds are that something bad will eventually happen at Disney. They need to keep their equipment performing at its best in order to prevent tragedy. I maintain that they should have prevented this by ordering a new fleet years ago.

Years ago they likely didn’t feel the fleet was needing replacement as issues weren’t as prevalent. Disney as a business doesn’t just buy/build something because they should.

 

[mshanson3121]

I maintain that they should have prevented this by ordering a new fleet years ago.

Not to mention the money they would have saved on the repairs, shut downs etc...

 

[umichigan10]

Years ago they likely didn’t feel the fleet was needing replacement as issues weren’t as prevalent. Disney as a business doesn’t just buy/build something because they should.

The precedent seems to be 20 years or so with the wdw monorails. The current trains came on line in the early 90s, so 2011 or so would’ve been prime time to make these changes. Seems like they’re going for 50% or more lifespan on these trains than the previous incarnations, which I think is a bit over ambitious imo. But I’m also not working in the monorail shop so I couldn’t tell ya

 

[rteetz]

Not to mention the money they would have saved on the repairs, shut downs etc...

I don’t think repairs = cost of new trains...

 

[jknezek]

The precedent seems to be 20 years or so with the wdw monorails. The current trains came on line in the early 90s, so 2011 or so would’ve been prime time to make these changes. Seems like they’re going for 50% or more lifespan on these trains than the previous incarnations, which I think is a bit over ambitious imo. But I’m also not working in the monorail shop so I couldn’t tell ya

Well... there are some reasons for why they extended the life on this series. Primarily it's because they were doing all the automation work. I'm sure they didn't want to order the new trains until the automation experiment successfully finished and they could incorporate it properly into new trains instead of it being add on extras. Second, they were able to cannibalize the crashed train for parts, which definitely extended the life of this generation. And finally, as has been pointed out on other threads, there is no off the shelf solution. The beams are the wrong size and, I believe, draw the wrong current, for any modern replacement.

So while I agree that these trains are well past their sell by date, there is good reason why Disney has tried so hard to keep them in "good enough" running condition.

 

[rteetz]

Well... there are some reasons for why they extended the life on this series. Primarily it's because they were doing all the automation work. I'm sure they didn't want to order the new trains until the automation experiment successfully finished and they could incorporate it properly into new trains instead of it being add on extras. Second, they were able to cannibalize the crashed train for parts, which definitely extended the life of this generation. And finally, as has been pointed out on other threads, there is no off the shelf solution. The beams are the wrong size and, I believe, draw the wrong current, for any modern replacement.

So while I agree that these trains are well past their sell by date, there is good reason why Disney has tried so hard to keep them in "good enough" running condition.

Yep.

The closest off the shelf model is the Innovia 200 from Bombardier.

 

[mshanson3121]

I don’t think repairs = cost of new trains...

Common sense Rteez. The new trains are an expense they were going to have regardless.

So, they could have spent the money a few years ago and avoided the extra costs of increased maintenence and repairs. They chose to wait. So now they are still buying them and they've been paying out the extra.

I understand their reasoning for waiting, but again, some foresight instead of merely focusing on the dollars, would have served them well here.

 

[umichigan10]

Well... there are some reasons for why they extended the life on this series. Primarily it's because they were doing all the automation work. I'm sure they didn't want to order the new trains until the automation experiment successfully finished and they could incorporate it properly into new trains instead of it being add on extras. Second, they were able to cannibalize the crashed train for parts, which definitely extended the life of this generation. And finally, as has been pointed out on other threads, there is no off the shelf solution. The beams are the wrong size and, I believe, draw the wrong current, for any modern replacement.

So while I agree that these trains are well past their sell by date, there is good reason why Disney has tried so hard to keep them in "good enough" running condition.

Yep.

The closest off the shelf model is the Innovia 200 from Bombardier.

Yeah what sucks about it is that it’s a fully customizable system which obviously complicates things. I also hadn’t thought about the automation factor in the equation. It never made sense to me to do it with the existing fleet when they’ve seen better days but I can see using them to work out the kinks for future trains. All in all good points raised here

 

[jknezek]

Yep.

The closest off the shelf model is the Innovia 200 from Bombardier.

Yes. And I think we are much more likely to see what Disneyland has done in the past. Refurbish the running gear and put new cabins on, rather than completely new trains. That would mean no need to change the beams, build a custom solution, or change the electrical work. It would also mean a slower process, as only certain trains could be pulled from service at a time.

 

[jknezek]

Common sense Rteez. The new trains are an expense they were going to have regardless.

So, they could have spent the money a few years ago and avoided the extra costs of increased maintenence and repairs. They chose to wait. So now they are still buying them and they've been paying out the extra.

The interest earned on a couple hundred million dollar capital expenditure can pay for a lot of repairs. It's hardly as straightforward an equation as your common sense comment implies.

 

[mshanson3121]

The interest earned on a couple hundred million dollar capital expenditure can pay for a lot of repairs. It's hardly as straightforward an equation as your common sense comment implies.

Oh, I'm well aware. Essentially, it was a gamble. Because in the meantime, what will the payout be on a lawsuit when someone gets injured the next time a chunk falls off? Or a door gets stuck open again and someone falls out? Or a door comes unhinged and actually falls off this time? A lot of ifs, sure, ones that I hope never come to fruition. But also very possible scenarios given circumstances. As rteez keeps saying, we're stuck with this system for several more years.