Hybrid owners please tell me all about them

[Wonder05]

Just make sure when you buy look for something that will tow the GVWR of the trailer you are interested in, not the dry weight. Mine is about 25 foot and GVWR is 5995#. My Yukon XL is rated to tow 8200#, and that is as much as I would tow with it. You also have to include all the people and stuff in truck toward the towing capacity. Personally, a Pilot will be pushed to capacity if not over with most hybrids. I would look at full size SUV's like Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban or Yukon XL depending on weight of trailer interested in.

How do I figure the GVWR of the trailer when they say TBD?

And I ignore the listing of towing capacity? Cause I would have thought that was how much the vehicle can tow including people in the vehicle? Otherwise, that's just confusing.

 

[PaHunter]

Take the GVWR subtract the Curb weight. This will give remaining weight from this subtract tongue weight of trailer, approx 10 to 15 percent of trailer. Subtract 100 lbs for hitch. This is the remaining weight left for clothes, kids, and anything else you plan to take without exceeding the GVWR.

You see very quickly, you maybe able to tow a 30 ft trailer, you just may have to leave the kids and stuff at home.

 

[amcc]

I did this calculation at some point with our Suburban and while the Suburban can tow my popup no problem, we quickly reached the maximum capacity of the vehicle (can't remember the name of this). With 4 kids, plus the hitch, plus 5 bikes, plus food, clothes, fans, fridge, etc. we reach it without stuffing it full. I would absolutely err on the side of excess towing capacity as just the stuff you will take with 3 kids is ALOT.

ETA: I see that PaHunter typed what I was trying to say but using the correct words - listen to him!

 

[FortForever]

Honestly, I don't like them. Our experience with one has been terrible and went back to a pop-up.

The bunk ends leaked when closed. The bunks did not feel solid like a pop-up does. Upon further inspection, the bunks turned out to be styrofoam with a paper thin layer of wood on each side. And I do mean paper thin. You can see light through the pieces of wood that the styrofoam is sandwiched in.

Our Jayco Jayfeather had knobs that had to be turned with a T handle to lock the bunks closed. All of them semi stripped out over time. The floor also didn't feel solid. It was not spongy or damaged, just made with lightweight materials to keep the weight down, and felt very cheap.

Overall, it was a bad experience. I will say we only have experience with this one, but I am on hybrid trailer groups and there seems to be an ongoing theme of these same problems with many others. I wouldn't own one again.

I'm sorry to be negative. I just wanted to be honest with my answer. There were a lot of things we liked about the hybrid, but overall it was too much trouble.

 

[bama_ed]

Wonder 05,

I found this thread on the Hybrid forum of www.rv.net which was asking questions similar to yours this summer. What are the pros/cons of a Hybrid?

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29302432.cfm

It had over 40 replies. I didn't read it all but it might be worth going through if I were in your shoes.

Also with regards to a tow vehicle and the weight of a potential trailer, anything that tows around 5,000 pounds might be safe on paper but in reality would be borderline in my opinion. Hybrids are heavier than popups (I have owned two) and lighter that equivalent travel trailers. Most TT of any length will be pushing 4,000 pounds and that is not enough safety margin in my opinion. I started with a minivan with a factory installed tow package rated at 3,500 pounds and towed a 2,800 pound GVWR popup. The minivan was underpowered.

When you are on the interstate pulling at highway speeds, it's not the running at a constant rate (or even accelerating) that's the issue - it's how to control and stop when you are headed downhill in the rain at 65 mph at night when running bumper to bumper traffic (I75 between Lake City and Wildwood, anyone?) and some yahoo cuts in front of you and hits the brakes - that will pucker some internal organs as you think about the lives of your family in the car with you. (It happened often enough that I got a Suburban to tow my popup like amcc did and I am happy with my towing experience and cargo capacity it provides-plus having met amcc I can say she knows what she's talking about).

Your Expedition listed in a prior post has plenty of towing capacity but the Pilot and Volvo are marginal and I wouldn't drive them knowing now what I know about weights and towing capacity. I would pull my popup with them. And that's all I will say on this topic.

Bama Ed

PS - some advice will say online that you should tow at max 70-80% of the tow vehicle GVWR. And I agree with that. Plus as others said you will have the trailer and/or vehicle for years so kids grow up, they bring their friends, they all bring their bikes and bags for that two week trip, and you can be seriously overloaded. When it says TBD for a trailer's GVWR, that either means "it depends on how you equip it" or "it's so new we don't know yet". But any trailer you walk into in person is required by law to have a GVWR sticker/label in the camper and you should verify what it says. And if you get options (an extra AC unit, a slideout, the W/D), it all adds weight.

PPS - trailer salespeople have been known to lie about towing capacities also. Don't rely on their advice.

Trailer Customer: "Can I pull this 45 foot 5th wheel with my Mini Cooper?"

Sales Person: "Absolutely. It will be fine in the mountains."

 

[Wonder05]

Wonder 05,

I found this thread on the Hybrid forum of www.rv.net which was asking questions similar to yours this summer. What are the pros/cons of a Hybrid?

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29302432.cfm

It had over 40 replies. I didn't read it all but it might be worth going through if I were in your shoes.

Also with regards to a tow vehicle and the weight of a potential trailer, anything that tows around 5,000 pounds might be safe on paper but in reality would be borderline in my opinion. Hybrids are heavier than popups (I have owned two) and lighter that equivalent travel trailers. Most TT of any length will be pushing 4,000 pounds and that is not enough safety margin in my opinion. I started with a minivan with a factory installed tow package rated at 3,500 pounds and towed a 2,800 pound GVWR popup. The minivan was underpowered.

When you are on the interstate pulling at highway speeds, it's not the running at a constant rate (or even accelerating) that's the issue - it's how to control and stop when you are headed downhill in the rain at 65 mph at night when running bumper to bumper traffic (I75 between Lake City and Wildwood, anyone?) and some yahoo cuts in front of you and hits the brakes - that will pucker some internal organs as you think about the lives of your family in the car with you. (It happened often enough that I got a Suburban to tow my popup like amcc did and I am happy with my towing experience and cargo capacity it provides-plus having met amcc I can say she knows what she's talking about).

Your Expedition listed in a prior post has plenty of towing capacity but the Pilot and Volvo are marginal and I wouldn't drive them knowing now what I know about weights and towing capacity. I would pull my popup with them. And that's all I will say on this topic.

Bama Ed

PS - some advice will say online that you should tow at max 70-80% of the tow vehicle GVWR. And I agree with that. Plus as others said you will have the trailer and/or vehicle for years so kids grow up, they bring their friends, they all bring their bikes and bags for that two week trip, and you can be seriously overloaded. When it says TBD for a trailer's GVWR, that either means "it depends on how you equip it" or "it's so new we don't know yet". But any trailer you walk into in person is required by law to have a GVWR sticker/label in the camper and you should verify what it says. And if you get options (an extra AC unit, a slideout, the W/D), it all adds weight.

PPS - trailer salespeople have been known to lie about towing capacities also. Don't rely on their advice.

Trailer Customer: "Can I pull this 45 foot 5th wheel with my Mini Cooper?"

Sales Person: "Absolutely. It will be fine in the mountains."

Thanks! I'll check that link out then.

Just ran across this and it's like really? Is this true? Catch fire, improperly wired , junk????
How do you know what brands to trust? It looks like some of them were bought out. Travel trailers, and Hybrid. A Pop up is totally out for us
Suggestions ?

 

[Wonder05]

Take the GVWR subtract the Curb weight. This will give remaining weight from this subtract tongue weight of trailer, approx 10 to 15 percent of trailer. Add 100 lbs for hitch. This is the remaining weight left for clothes, kids, and anything else you plan to take without exceeding the GVWR.

You see very quickly, you maybe able to tow a 30 ft trailer, you just may have to leave the kids and stuff at home.

I must be missing something cause when I take the Ford's GVWR and subtract the Curb I get $1,484??

 

[FortForever]

I really like that camping feel of a popup but man so we feel like we need those creature comforts like our own bathroom! Really don't want to try and run a three year old to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Thanks!

Our current pop up has a full bathroom, with toilet and shower. I use our own bathroom, almost exclusively, while camping. It also has a full kitchen with 3-way fridge (plus another fridge and freezer that we added,) toaster oven, microwave, 3 burner stove, and sink. Also has an outdoor stove, outdoor shower, huge storage trunk, rooftop air conditioner, water heater, and factory wired for cable. And it's a 1999 that we can two with our Honda Odyssey van.

We still have a hybrid, but don't use it. We had to use the Suburban to tow it and have all the same amenities in our pop up. Plus, our pop up stays evenly heated and cooled. In the hybrid, all the heat/cool would stay in the middle and not the bunk ends. I have no idea why the temperature is more consistent in a pop up vs. a hybrid, but it's a fact.

Do what is best for your family, but just wanted to make sure you had all the information. Pop ups definitely have full bathrooms, just find one that does. It was priority for me, along with rooftop a/c.

 

[PaHunter]

I must be missing something cause when I take the Ford's GVWR and subtract the Curb I get $1,484??

Taking the Ford, and using the Rockwood Roo 233S as an example.
The 1484 is correct, now for the hitch, 100 lbs, so you are down to 1384, tongue weight of the trailer, is 602 lbs, so you are left with 782 lbs before you are over the GVWR. Now sometimes curb weight includes the driver, but no passengers, and usually a full tank of full.
So out of that 782, you still have to subtract the passengers weight, the kids weight. So let's say petite female, 120lbs, now that total drops to 662. Three kids, for example, 60, 40, 20lbs, total of kids=120.
Now that total remaining has dropped to 542.
So now assuming that there was nothing added to the vehicle after it left the factory, you would have 542lbs left until over GVWR. Now you add the car seats, say 15lbs a piece Down to 497.
Now the 497 lbs and we have not put suitcases in the vehicle, snacks, drinks, cooler, etc.
We also added nothing to the trailer, as this could result in added tongue weight which would reduce the 497 available even further.

So again, it will pull it. You would be close to max weight. But see how it adds up quickly.

Towing capacity for the most part means very little.

 

[Wonder05]

So what I'm hearing is NO SUV will work? And towing capacity doesn't mean the maximum of what it can tow with the driver??
What would be the point of putting that??
So I'm guessing your gonna tell me I need a Truck and that's not gonna fit my family (car seats) so we are Outta Luck to do this for our vacations. That's a week.
We also pack very light (seriously we wouldn't mess around with that. And we Wouldn't bring bikes that's just too much for us for what we want to be doing. Fort Wilderness and some local campsites. We aren't gonna go out into the boonies or anything. That's just not for us. No full time RVing or anything close to that)

And I'm
Guessing no F-150's gonna cut it?

 

[PaHunter]

So what I'm hearing is NO SUV will work? And towing capacity doesn't mean the maximum of what it can tow with the driver??
What would be the point of putting that??
So I'm guessing your gonna tell me I need a Truck and that's not gonna fit my family (car seats) so we are Outta Luck to do this for our vacations. That's a week.
We also pack very light (seriously we wouldn't mess around with that. And we Wouldn't bring bikes that's just too much for us for what we want to be doing. Fort Wilderness and some local campsites. We aren't gonna go out into the boonies or anything. That's just not for us. No full time RVing or anything close to that)

And I'm
Guessing no F-150's gonna cut it?

I am not saying that no SUV will work, many people have them, and tow with them. I was simply explaining how one can get to the GVWR quickly. That all comes down to a personal choice of what you feel safe with. And yes a 1/2 truck can do it, even vans. I had a chevy conversion van I towed my first trailer with back in the 90's, trailer was 26ft long. Our last trailer we towed with a 2003 Chevy 1500, it was a Keystone Bullet, about 7000 lbs. Didn't like towing while getting 6mpg. So we upgraded our truck to a 3500. Just recently upgraded the trailer to a fifth wheel.

Here is a picture taken during a camping trip earlier this year of a SUV with a hybrid.

 

[harriettbrawner]

My husband and I had 2 popups and in January we purchased our first hybrid. It's a KZ Escape and so far we love it. It has a fridge with a separate freezer, plus a bathroom and both the table and sofa make into beds. The only complaint is that the mattresses aren't very comfortable, but that's an easy fix with a topper or memory foam. It is true that like a popup the tent ends don't hold the cool as well as a full trailer, but we bought two solar blankets to put over them for future trips. I looked at Popup Gizmos, but they were too pricey for me and what we have will work exactly the same. A small oscillating fan will take care of keeping us cool while sleeping. Like a popup, there's not a lot of storage, but the only time that will be an issue is when we have grandkids with us. When it's just the two of us we use one of the tent ends as a closet. As far as towing goes, we have a Chevy Silverado that pulls the camper with no problems.

I recommend going to a camping show where there are examples of different brands and dealers.

 

[jeffrey1966]

I have a 2014 Jayco X23F. I love it. It has a slide out dinette, 3 tip out beds, and full bathroom. Very roomy for the size. GVWR 5995 and TV is a F350 diesel. Condensation in the canvas tip out beds can be a problem but I purchased the pop up Gizmo blankets. They really help.

 

[amcc]

So what I'm hearing is NO SUV will work? And towing capacity doesn't mean the maximum of what it can tow with the driver??
What would be the point of putting that??
So I'm guessing your gonna tell me I need a Truck and that's not gonna fit my family (car seats) so we are Outta Luck to do this for our vacations. That's a week.
We also pack very light (seriously we wouldn't mess around with that. And we Wouldn't bring bikes that's just too much for us for what we want to be doing. Fort Wilderness and some local campsites. We aren't gonna go out into the boonies or anything. That's just not for us. No full time RVing or anything close to that)

And I'm
Guessing no F-150's gonna cut it?

Don't get discouraged. Here's how the technical details work out in my head - there are 2 limits - one is what your vehicle can tow and one is what your vehicle can carry. Many vehicles can tow the camper so most of what you list would be fine. However, the camper adds to the weight the vehicle is carrying through the hitch and the tongue. My popup has minimal space to carry anything so it all goes in my Suburban - with 6 people, bikes, food, fridge, hitch, I quickly reach the capacity of what the truck can carry. I do my best to keep a mental tally of the weight. However, I know my Suburban can tow a great deal more than my popup. So, the way I see it is, load your stuff in the camper, stay under the weight carried by your vehicle, and you should be fine.

CAVEAT - This is how I've figured it in my head after reading about it when we first started and from threads here and online. I could have understood this completely wrong in which case, let me know and I will delete this erroneous information.

 

[AU Tigger]

We have had 2 hybrids, and we just love them. Wings out when the grandchildren or other family come along, wings up when it's just the 2 of us.
We have camped winter and summer and have easily been able to keep the bunks warm or cool. A small fan on the floor aimed at the bunk does wonders during the hottest times. In the winter, we use heated mattress pads and stay perfectly warm.
We also often leave the bulky bunk mats at home and replace them with more comfortable (and portable) air mattresses.

 

[SA mom]

We shopped for about 20 years before purchasing our camper. I come from a camping family with lots of varied experience. One thing everyone that had a hibrid agreed upon wast the AC can't keep up with a Texas summer.

The other thing everyone told us is the the issue with the tow weight. Salesmen with try to sell you on a camper that you really can't tow easily or comfortably. The previous posters gave some great info.

We made the mistake 3 years ago of settling on a Suburban that only tows 5000#. That really limited us on what we could pull and became the driving factor on what we bought. Most Suburbans pull 7500#. Once you put people, groceries, water, bikespecially, etc. you are pulling a lot of weight.

Don't rush into anything and have fun with shopping!

 

[Wonder05]

Thank You all!

The other day my father reminded me of a situation we had camping when I was a kid. Let's say it involved a Skunk and we slept in tents. Not a good combination lol

Anyway, my parents have decided they want in on this.
So, it might need to be a travel
Trailer or fifth wheel.
We have no qualms with them joining us and we would absolutely give them the "bedroom"
We are very close , so this isn't an issue. Maybe some bunks since we have 3 small children (5,2, and 5 months)

Anyway, We have been looking online at a used automatic F-350s and Silverado 3500 with crew can style.
This is more of a three part question.

1. I know crew cab Can you/have you get 3 car seats safely in a Tow Vehicle?
Be it an F-350 , Silverado ect..
I know the F-150s you can but didn't know about the 350s.

2. How would a V10 be vs a Diesel? Yes, I know cheaper gas better miles per gallon but more from a safety stand point
Is a V8 or V10 ok or would we be white knuckling it?
I ask cause I know Mid? 2000 diesel needs to be bulletproofed but you need to watch out cause there's no way to know if the used sitting gas?

I did find a bulletproofed truck litterly down the road from us a it's a King Ranch
2005 Ford F-350 Super Duty Lariat Crew Cab SB made
4WD with 149,284 miles
But I'm not sure what to look for.

And if I should make a new thread please let me know.

We are on the East coast and we would be only using this vehicle for our vacations. The furthest we would travel is the Fort which is like 900 some miles. No cross country road trips or anything like that.


Thanks again!

 

[PaHunter]

Number 1 answer, yes you can get 3 car seats or boosters in the back of a crew cab truck. Our friend owns an F350 and has 3 girls, they all camp. We have a Chevy 3500 and it would fit 3 across.
Number 2, if you can go diesel. You get more power from the engine, and better fuel mileage.
And if you haven't already, check out the Truck and Towing thread on the first page. There is a lot of information contained in it, pictures of tow vehicles and trailers.

 

[Teamubr]

Michele,

If you are considering a truck bigger than a 150/1500 (1/2 ton), I would strongly consider the diesel. It will be more expensive, but towing with a diesel is far nicer than a large gasser. Be warned. There is a saying, once you've gone diesel, you'll never go back.

I'm on my 3rd Ford Crewcab diesel, but the race team had 2 others. I've experienced the good, bad, and ugly of the Ford diesels since the old 7.3 Powerstrokes (up to 2002). You will have no problem getting 3 car seats across in the rear. The Ford crewcabs have some of the largest rear seat space. I get 3 large adults in mine with room to spare. The 2005 Ford diesel was the 6.0. The remaining ones should be pretty reliable. They made decent power for the time (570 lb/ft of torque)- [On a side note, diesels make power differently than a gas motor. Horsepower (HP) is what you hear in all the marketing, but torque is what you really want when towing. Think of it this way. Torque is what accelerates you. HP is what gives you maximum speed. Gas engines generally make the same amount of HP as torque. Diesels typically make twice as much torque than HP. Remember torque is what you want for towing.]

The newest Ford diesels (6.7) make 440 HP/ 925 lb ft (torque). That is best in class right now. The 6.0 in the 2005 made 325 HP/ 570 lb ft. That sounds like a huge difference, but if you aren't towing over 10,000 lbs, I don't think it would make that much difference. My 2002 7.3 diesel made 275 HP and 535 lb ft. It pulled my 7000 and 8500 lb campers with no problem and I got 11 mpg towing at 75-80. Can't do that with my 2011 making a lot more power.

The 6.0 was the last non-emission diesel too. That means no DPF (diesel particulate filter) and "regens" (process to clean the DPF by burning extra fuel. aka. worse fuel mileage) and no need for DEF (diesel emissions fluid) that gets injected into the exhaust to control emissions. I would strongly recommend staying away from the Ford 6.4 diesel (2008-2010- there's a reason they only made it for 3 years) I had a 2008. It was the first of the "emissions diesels". It made decent power and in the 30,000 miles I had it, I never had any issues, but it got HORRIBLE fuel mileage. 8.5 mpg towing the same camper that I would get 11 mpg towing faster in my 2002. I hear if you remove all the emissions stuff and "chip" them, you get great power, dependability AND good fuel mileage, but that makes them illegal in many states.

Now for the bad. The 6.0 had some serious injector issues. Many had to have the fuel injectors replaced by 75,000 miles. Quite a few in under 30,000 miles. Some trucks ended up having entire motors replaced. Our race team had a 2006 with the 6.0. It had 2 injectors go bad on the return trip from racing in Utah (from St Louis). One failed about 20 miles from the shop, the other died in the shop parking lot trying to figure out why the truck was running so bad. We replaced all 8. The general rule has been, if the truck has more than 80,000 miles on it, it either has had the injectors replaced (in which it should be fine) or they are fine and won't cause any problems.

If you aren't married to a specific brand, I would look at Dodge and GMC/Chevy too. I've always been a Ford truck person (raced Mustangs and was a Ford Racing sanctioned driver), but all 3 have their strong points. (Dodge- engines (but terrible interior and overall truck durability), GMC- transmissions- the Allison really is a nice transmission , Ford- best all around truck durability and interiors) [Not trying to incite a "truck war". Just my opinion based on driving and towing with all 3- your mileage may vary]

Have fun shopping!

j

 

[SA mom]

The other day my father reminded me of a situation we had camping when I was a kid. Let's say it involved a Skunk and we slept in tents. Not a good combination lol

That made me snort. We have a small Bunkhouse model and the kids love having their own space. Good luck on your purchase!