If the new gondola, Skyliner, is successful, will they create more lines?

[Roxyfire]

What it does is completely and permanently kill the moderate income affordability.

Caribbean and all stars were built WITH PURPOSE. It wasn't to be "faux deluxe" later.

So it brings deluxes back down to "more reasonable" in comparison...but knocks the lowers tiers completely out of it.

Yeah that'll be a really unfortunate situation. I don't know, for now, that All Stars will be anything beyond the lowest tier. Especially with barely supervised pre-teens running around most of the year. But Caribbean, and perhaps Coronado, are going to be shifted upwards that's for sure.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah that'll be a really unfortunate situation. I don't know, for now, that All Stars will be anything beyond the lowest tier. Especially with barely supervised pre-teens running around most of the year. But Caribbean, and perhaps Coronado, are going to be shifted upwards that's for sure.

I picked caribbean and all star sports because they were the first of the class.

Swap pop for all stars and the analogy is better.

 

[Roxyfire]

I picked caribbean and all star sports because they were the first of the class.

Swap pop for all stars and the analogy is better.

Makes sense. People are gonna have to be on their trip advisor game, or else buyer's remorse will be very real.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Makes sense. People are gonna have to be on their trip advisor game, or else buyer's remorse will be very real.

There's gonna be a "lost generation"...that never get to Disney world. On property hotels is a minor thing...but the cost of tickets and food are enough to have eliminated many of the traditional demographic already. $8000 a week for travel is too much for many already and it's gonna get worse.

 

[jknezek]

There's gonna be a "lost generation"...that never get to Disney world. On property hotels is a minor thing...but the cost of tickets and food are enough to have eliminated many of the traditional demographic already. $8000 a week for travel is too much for many already and it's gonna get worse.

This is a problem. I know I've seen surveys of families where one adult went as a kid, both adults went as a kid, and no adults went as a kid. The difference in return visiting is incredible. I'll have to look around for them. They weren't done by Disney, but some university research. I know my wife never went as a kid and, despite my enthusiasm and love, is fine with going, but she isn't gung ho. I tend to find that attitude a lot more in people who didn't go as kids. Of course there are plenty that start to love it as adults, but the research showed if you didn't have the childhood memories, you were unlikely to take your own family.

 

[Roxyfire]

There's gonna be a "lost generation"...that never get to Disney world. On property hotels is a minor thing...but the cost of tickets and food are enough to have eliminated many of the traditional demographic already. $8000 a week for travel is too much for many already and it's gonna get worse.

I agree, we were just talking about this at work. A younger coworker (well under 30) was saying he wanted to take his wife Disney World and Universal. Those of us who have been recently were basically telling him the majority of the cost is tied up in the tickets. They're young, no kids, so they could probably get away with staying at a value or airbnb. But once we laid out the whole cost, he was a lot more apprehensive.

This is a problem. I know I've seen surveys of families where one adult went as a kid, both adults went as a kid, and no adults went as a kid. The difference in return visiting is incredible. I'll have to look around for them. They weren't done by Disney, but some university research. I know my wife never went as a kid and, despite my enthusiasm and love, is fine with going, but she isn't gung ho. I tend to find that attitude a lot more in people who didn't go as kids. Of course there are plenty that start to love it as adults, but the research showed if you didn't have the childhood memories, you were unlikely to take your own family.

I think that's very true, which is why I've been bringing my son a lot the last couple years. We did miss out on the early years when it's really "magical" but I think that he will still enjoy it later on and hopefully want to continue that down the line. That is, if it's not so incredibly overpriced. I think it's true for a lot of things too. If you grow up going to a lot of sporting events like football games and baseball games you are more likely to take your kids to that kind of stuff, and so on.

 

[jade1]

Just a thought, but if the Skyliner gondola line is successful, more cost effective and efficient with moving people than buses, is this just the beginning? Years from now will we see more gondola lines all over property? Will we one day, be able to hop on a gondola from Epcot resorts to Animal Kingdom? or to the water parks?

Man I hope not. At AK now and seems super busy, was EMH so bout wrapped up luckily. Pandora is just incredible.

Hoping WDW reduces crowds somehow, certainly not increase them anyway.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

There's gonna be a "lost generation"...that never get to Disney world. On property hotels is a minor thing...but the cost of tickets and food are enough to have eliminated many of the traditional demographic already. $8000 a week for travel is too much for many already and it's gonna get worse.

see, I don't think the tickets are that out of wack - a full days entertainment when you compare to a Broadway show ticket or a sporting event (the average ticket price to a NY Knicks game is $125/ticket - and they stink!) ... and food, you can bring food, or share quick service ... there are ways to do it on a budget. And sty off site at great accommodations for the same price as a value

There are ways to do Disney and not spend $8,000 - it just might not be the traditional package of onsite at a moderate resort and dining package, etc.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yeah that'll be a really unfortunate situation. I don't know, for now, that All Stars will be anything beyond the lowest tier. Especially with barely supervised pre-teens running around most of the year. But Caribbean, and perhaps Coronado, are going to be shifted upwards that's for sure.

you already see that with Pop generally being much preferred that the All Stars and AoA even more so ... so I think they move to now with the Gondola they can "justify" charging quite a bit more for Pop/AoA than the All Starts. All Start for $110/night vs $140 a night for Pop or $160 night for Pop/AoA with Gondola ... and see what people will pay for that

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This is a problem. I know I've seen surveys of families where one adult went as a kid, both adults went as a kid, and no adults went as a kid. The difference in return visiting is incredible. I'll have to look around for them. They weren't done by Disney, but some university research. I know my wife never went as a kid and, despite my enthusiasm and love, is fine with going, but she isn't gung ho. I tend to find that attitude a lot more in people who didn't go as kids. Of course there are plenty that start to love it as adults, but the research showed if you didn't have the childhood memories, you were unlikely to take your own family.

I don't disagree - though as a kid we only went every 3 years or so and my wife only went once ... yet we get there almost every year. I think a lot of times when people look at the cost of Disney vacation and how it has gone up (and it certainly has) they take it as part of the annual income - but a lot of people aren't going every year, it will be something they save up for over a few years (and then do cheaper vacations in between). So that is why I think ensuring the experience is top notch is more important than the cost factor ... get people there that once but it is absolutely the best trip they ever took and showed how Disney is better than everyone else, etc I think goes further than watching costs so people can go more often but is only a B+ experience vs A+

 

[lockedoutlogic]

see, I don't think the tickets are that out of wack - a full days entertainment when you compare to a Broadway show ticket or a sporting event (the average ticket price to a NY Knicks game is $125/ticket - and they stink!) ... and food, you can bring food, or share quick service ... there are ways to do it on a budget. And sty off site at great accommodations for the same price as a value

There are ways to do Disney and not spend $8,000 - it just might not be the traditional package of onsite at a moderate resort and dining package, etc.

New York pricing is not "normal"...

An annual pass to one of 16 six flags were on sale over Labor Day for $75 ish bucks...

That's more "heartland"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't disagree - though as a kid we only went every 3 years or so and my wife only went once ... yet we get there almost every year. I think a lot of times when people look at the cost of Disney vacation and how it has gone up (and it certainly has) they take it as part of the annual income - but a lot of people aren't going every year, it will be something they save up for over a few years (and then do cheaper vacations in between). So that is why I think ensuring the experience is top notch is more important than the cost factor ... get people there that once but it is absolutely the best trip they ever took and showed how Disney is better than everyone else, etc I think goes further than watching costs so people can go more often but is only a B+ experience vs A+

The cost of disney - a completely disposable good - is 200% of its pre Great Recession (an oxymoron there) price...

Income adjusted to inflation is flat or declining for the majority of Americans, Canadian, and Western Europeans...

So while "they just go every third year now" may be the plan...you used to get 21 days and now you get 10 or 7...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

you already see that with Pop generally being much preferred that the All Stars and AoA even more so ... so I think they move to now with the Gondola they can "justify" charging quite a bit more for Pop/AoA than the All Starts. All Start for $110/night vs $140 a night for Pop or $160 night for Pop/AoA with Gondola ... and see what people will pay for that

Pop will be at least $200 starting a night after gondola..I'm not really risking much with that prediction.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Man I hope not. At AK now and seems super busy, was EMH so bout wrapped up luckily. Pandora is just incredible.

Hoping WDW reduces crowds somehow, certainly not increase them anyway.

Disney's goal is to pack the place to make stock dividends...not to keep you comfy...

...so don't hold your breath.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The cost of disney - a completely disposable good - is 200% of its pre Great Recession (an oxymoron there) price...

Income adjusted to inflation is flat or declining for the majority of Americans, Canadian, and Western Europeans...

So while "they just go every third year now" may be the plan...you used to get 21 days and now you get 10 or 7...

I don't disagree with the total increase which is a lot more than inflation ... I wasn't necessarily arguing now vs then, more just in general when these studies are done comparing a Disney trip to a certain % of total income that people allocate to vacations, my point was just that it isn't one years worth of income to compare it to if you are only going every few years

 

[DBDiz]

There's gonna be a "lost generation"...that never get to Disney world. On property hotels is a minor thing...but the cost of tickets and food are enough to have eliminated many of the traditional demographic already. $8000 a week for travel is too much for many already and it's gonna get worse.

Where are you getting the $8k for a moderate stay? I've priced out values and moderates the last three years and never once come up with a figure over $5k, and that's with hoppers, dining plan, memory maker, and airfare.

 

[DBDiz]

Pop will be at least $200 starting a night after gondola..I'm not really risking much with that prediction.

This makes me sad. I was hoping it's stay in the $170-180 range. But I wouldn't be surprised for $200/night.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This makes me sad. I was hoping it's stay in the $170-180 range. But I wouldn't be surprised for $200/night.

Personally I think it will depend on time of year. I definitely think at peak times it will be over $200 but I think slower times it will be in the range you site ... but I guess we shall see

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Where are you getting the $8k for a moderate stay? I've priced out values and moderates the last three years and never once come up with a figure over $5k, and that's with hoppers, dining plan, memory maker, and airfare.

What's your math come from?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Personally I think it will depend on time of year. I definitely think at peak times it will be over $200 but I think slower times it will be in the range you site ... but I guess we shall see

It's already dangerously close now and they have bills to pay.

I think it's gonna be laughably shocking in 2019...just a hunch