Maybe it's just me...

[Davey Jones II]

I think one issue with this is that the Extra's can affect the guest experience for everyone else. For example, MNSSHP will now impact guests in Mid-August, for something pertaining to Halloween. Or Dessert party viewing may close off areas once available to anyone. These Extra's do not occur in a bubble, and are beginning to chip away at everyone else's experience.

Having countless Halloween parties means that the other three parks will be more crowded for the rest of the night, as everyone will park hop there.

 

[Lilsia]

Well I for one do think Disney should be affordable for teachers. And I do spend a lot of time working with them on their budgets and figuring out how they can take their kids. And Disney is GREEDY there is no nice way to say it. I am spending 3X's what I spent in 2006. And when we do have another economic downturn just watch how fast Disney's board convinces Iger to retire for his health as they try to figure out how to get people back to the parks. They could easily have gone down the middle raising prices on the deluxe's and adding their upcharges while keeping basic tickets and value resorts at a fairly decent value. One of the forensic accountants in my building said he thought they were working on a 30 to 35% profit margin at the least.

I don't know why you think that teachers are more or less deserving to go to WDW then anyone else. But with a little bit of research I have learned that the average teacher salary in KS is $54,000 and I am assuming that many of these have another income in the family. That is not rich, but it sure as heck is not poor. We make a little bit more then that but I manage to take 2 vacations a year to WDW. You know how I do it? I don't spend on anything I don't need. I don't go to starbucks and buy my morning coffee every day, we don't go out to eat because I cook. We don't go out with friends and spend money at a bar. I don't shop for unnecessary items like jewelry and purses and shoes, etc. If a person started to add up all of these expenses and cut back, most people would be able to afford a vacation. It is all in how you choose to spend your income. I work in a restaurant and we have a lady that works near by and comes in mon-fri. I was talking to her one day and she said she would love to take her boys to WDW but they can't afford it. I did a mental count up on how much money she spends at my restaurant a year and it came out to be around $2000. She came in for breakfast and lunch. If she packed her lunch and made coffee at home, she would save a ton of money. It's all about choice.

 

[mousehockey37]

I've also read countless posts that say something like the following: "next time, we're going to Universal", "we used to go often, but now we're taking a break from Disney", "there are other places to visit". There are other variations, but you get the idea.

And among those who grumble but say they're going back, many say they used to go more often, or that the next one will be the last for a while. For many, Disney's moves may not be deal breaker yet, but it's a bad sign that formerly very loyal visitors are now complaining and cutting back on visits. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think any business can afford to alienate its most loyal customers.

Disney seems to be getting a record number of first timers and "once in a lifetime" visitors in recent years. Confronted by long wait times and heavy crowds, how many of those will be coming back?

If you think about it, a good deal of Disney's "most loyal" are tied up with the company for decades to come... They're the ones that bought DVC. This isn't all the super loyalists, but there's a good chunk.

It’s no secret that crowds are heavier than ever. So if they only had a handful of parties, people would complain about how busy they are and how Disney is all about making money just by shoving more people in the park during the parties. I think it’s a great move by them to add more to spread it out a little.

I'll agree to disagree then. Seasonal parties are just that... an offering during the "season". When you start crossing summer season with fall season, it just looks bad. Disney sees $$$ and that's about it. I think it's super awkward to be having Halloween parties in August. Just like it's overkill to see Christmas decor being sold in stores prior to Labor Day. Corporate greed is in full swing. Btw, if Disney kept the parties to just Sept/Oct, they could raise the prices of admission even more and people will pay it. Every party would sell out at a higher price.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Thank you! I’m definitely very excited, and I think you are right about making sure our attitude is not too rigid.

Being new, I actually don’t mind the uncharges, probably because I never knew any different. To me it just seems like other options that we can choose to add on. Because my husband and I both gave health problems, we are used to paying more to get the experience that we want or need, so maybe that’s another reason that it doesn’t faze me. Paying to do the dessert parties to get a less crowded view is annoying, but to me it’s no different than us having to pay more to sit in the first class train compartment because that’s less busy - if we can’t afford to sit there then we don’t do the journey, and if we can’t afford the dessert party then we don’t see the fireworks. Having a disability is expensive, and these Disney upcharges just feel like that to me - if we want a less crowded experience then we have to pay more. I can absolutely see why it is frustrating for people though.

You'll be there for a month, so you'll definitely have time to do everything you want, and to do so at a relaxed pace. I agree with everyone else, you'll have a great time!

In our case, we always try to pack everything into 9 or 10 park days. Going for a month sounds like a dream.

 

[KenHutch]

I don't know why you think that teachers are more or less deserving to go to WDW then anyone else. But with a little bit of research I have learned that the average teacher salary in KS is $54,000 and I am assuming that many of these have another income in the family. That is not rich, but it sure as heck is not poor. We make a little bit more then that but I manage to take 2 vacations a year to WDW. You know how I do it? I don't spend on anything I don't need. I don't go to starbucks and buy my morning coffee every day, we don't go out to eat because I cook. We don't go out with friends and spend money at a bar. I don't shop for unnecessary items like jewelry and purses and shoes, etc. If a person started to add up all of these expenses and cut back, most people would be able to afford a vacation. It is all in how you choose to spend your income. I work in a restaurant and we have a lady that works near by and comes in mon-fri. I was talking to her one day and she said she would love to take her boys to WDW but they can't afford it. I did a mental count up on how much money she spends at my restaurant a year and it came out to be around $2000. She came in for breakfast and lunch. If she packed her lunch and made coffee at home, she would save a ton of money. It's all about choice.

I mentioned teachers because that's who I help the most and I would love to see that average salary paid at the school I help. The married teacher couple I am helping now do make about $65K between them and I know they end up paying for school supplies for some of their students. You are correct people can save I spend very little except on my daughter but I can remember when Disney was possible for about anyone in the middle class. Now if they stay offsite and don't eat there they can do it. Greed is greed they say its for the stockholders well I am a stockholder and I think they should make it affordable at some places for everyone (for a Marine I am a serious libertarian streak running down my back).

 

[SaintsManiac]

I mentioned teachers because that's who I help the most and I would love to see that average salary paid at the school I help. The married teacher couple I am helping now do make about $65K between them and I know they end up paying for school supplies for some of their students. You are correct people can save I spend very little except on my daughter but I can remember when Disney was possible for about anyone in the middle class. Now if they stay offsite and don't eat there they can do it. Greed is greed they say its for the stockholders well I am a stockholder and I think they should make it affordable at some places for everyone (for a Marine I am a serious libertarian streak running down my back).

We stay onsite and eat in WDW and we will have 3 trips within a year. We use our Disney Visa rewards to pay for food. We use Southwest points to fly (my husband does online surveys for points), we book with a discount, we save a big chunk of our pay. We are middle class. It can be done.

 

[michbaron]

I can see how this might frustrate some people but I don’t agree... just as perspective we live on Long Island and the big thing to do is go out east for the weekend, there are “hotels” that can barely compare to a roadside chain motel that charge $300/400 a night for a basic room with sand on everything all the time and you have to stay for a minimum of 3 nights at many of them, and if you don’t book at the end of the previous summer good luck getting a room between Memorial Day and Labor Day, I think it’s insane that people pay this money so instead we drive out early in the morning stay for the day and go home at night and don’t stay over bc we aren’t willing to pay that for that experience, basically all to say it’s not just disney, there are things people can afford and are willing to pay for and things people arent, we save to be able to go to Disney and some of the add on experiences have given us the best times there, corporate greed is real but if you don’t like it you don’t have to go, I just can’t imagine feeling so negative about a place and still going there

 

[mousehockey37]

No, I think it is a smart move. Many visitors from the North East have kids that are back in school in the beginning of September. By having a couple of parties in the last half of August, they open the parties up to an entirely new demographic. My family, over the course of the past 10 years, has only gone to the Halloween party two times, both when we returned late for the opening of school. This year, we actually will have 3 parties to chose from before the end of our trip, and we won't have to miss any school to do it.

Not everyone wins a trophy. Kids in the South start school in the beginning of August, should Disney back up the parties even earlier so they can go? Maybe they should cut the Halloween parties short and start the Christmas Parties in October? I mean, Halloween parties run til the holiday itself, the Christmas parties don't run til Christmas.

 

[Dallas_Lady]

It's not just you. We've booked a different vacation for next year instead of Disney. I still like Disney but there are other places out there to spend my money at.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

The problem with all the upsells is they’re affecting those who choose not to buy into them. Taking space away in MK that used to be open to anyone for FW viewing and charging for it, ridiculous amount of holiday parties forcing paying guests out of the park at 6:00 several nights a week (lower hours but not lower prices), charging for parking for people staying at a resort but not those using the lot so they can get to a park without paying to park, those ridiculous cabanas (I know they’re gone now) taking up space, the list goes on and on. I admit I buy many of the upsells and I understand it’s nice to have different options but they should not affect people who are paying a lot of money for their trip too. And when they’re making record money, they’re screwing over their staff and not keeping up on repairs and cleanliness. Charging more, making more, giving less to guests and CMs. This will bite them in the butt eventually, all of this blatant greed and money grabbing. Yes, Disney is a business, but they were also a business, performing well, for decades without all of this nonsense. Some people will defend Disney no matter what, and act like if you criticize it you hate it. But I love Disney as much as anyone, and I’m still able to see its flaws. I’m a new DVC member and I plan on going for many years to come, I just hope they get their act together.

 

[Magpie]

I mentioned teachers because that's who I help the most and I would love to see that average salary paid at the school I help. The married teacher couple I am helping now do make about $65K between them and I know they end up paying for school supplies for some of their students. You are correct people can save I spend very little except on my daughter but I can remember when Disney was possible for about anyone in the middle class. Now if they stay offsite and don't eat there they can do it. Greed is greed they say its for the stockholders well I am a stockholder and I think they should make it affordable at some places for everyone (for a Marine I am a serious libertarian streak running down my back).

Why should Disney be affordable at all?

It never was affordable for my single working mother when I was a child in the 70's and 80's, and that's fine. I wasn't entitled to a Disney vacation. I just had to wait until I could afford it myself, as a grownup.

As "serious libertarian" you can certainly wish for an economic crisis that forces Disney to lower prices in a way that would benefit you as an individual. However, arguing that they should reduce their own profits out of a noble impulse to be kind to teachers makes no sense at all. It's the very antithesis of libertarianism. (For the record, I also think teachers are shockingly underpaid for the work they do.)

And really, if you do get your wish and the US suffers another severe economic collapse, such that most people can't afford to visit Disney any more, you may find that the price isn't worth the reward of a cheaper vacation to a struggling theme park that has put all development on hold.

 

[DisneyFive]

I'm about to go next month for our first visit in 7 years. And while I'm confident we'll have a great time, both my DH and I have commented on how expensive it's gotten and how it must be getting out of reach for many families.

We are a family of 3 (2 adults one child) and all-in (airfare, etc.) we are dropping almost $5700 on 8 nights...and it's only that "low" because we are staying at the Dolphin on hotel points. That's right, $5700 and the hotel is all but free (still have to pay about $250 in resort fees for the stay). We are only doing 3 "add-ons", which are Memory Maker and two desert parties. Most days we're only having one table service meal a day (one of them being CRT, but still). Out of curiosity, just to see what a more basic trip would run, I ran the numbers where we ate counter service for all meals and dropped the two desert parties and it knocked about $900 off the budget, not chump change but that was still almost $4800 for a week at Disney and again - the hotel was free!

Here's the break down:

Flights from Chicago $913.20 (3 tickets)
Bag Fees (2 bags round-trip) $100.00
Hotel Resort Fees $252.00
Park Tickets -7 Day Hop $ 1,544.25 (2 adults 1 child)
Meals and parties $ 2,122.13
Town car service (for both ORD and MCO) $ 300.00
Photo/Memory Maker $169.00
Souvenirs/Misc. $ 265.00
Grand Total $5,665.58

We're a fortunate family, we have a good income and we budget/spend in our daily lives wisely. Even for us this is more of a "once every few years" kind of trip. DD is 6, I figure we'll go again when she's 8 or 9 and then a few years after that we'll do a Universal trip. And that may be it for us for theme park based week long vacations. I love Disney, but I can't justify spending that kind of cash year after year, not when there are other places in the US and abroad that we want to visit too.

We feel your pain. It's getting more and more expensive. I'm not making any excuses, but like Magpie mentions, when I price out other options like a cruise it's not any cheaper than Disney. In fact, our family cruises for the same number of days, are surprisingly close to Disney costs, and the experience is just as enjoyable (albeit different).

Dan

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Some people will never be able to afford Disney no matter what. For those that say "it can be done"...for some people it will never be done.

I was raised by a single working mother who was paid minimum wage for much of my young life. No matter how hard she tried she NEVER would've afforded Disney. Some people can barely afford to live and I'm not talking the Starbucks buying, cigarette smoking, biggest package of cable having people. I'm talking regular Joe's trying to make ends meet with no luxuries.

And that's ok!! Not everyone can and will go to Disney. It's not a necessity. Lots of people never step foot into a Disney park and they live meaningful and fulfilled lives.

 

[Lilsia]

Not everyone wins a trophy. Kids in the South start school in the beginning of August, should Disney back up the parties even earlier so they can go? Maybe they should cut the Halloween parties short and start the Christmas Parties in October? I mean, Halloween parties run til the holiday itself, the Christmas parties don't run til Christmas.

I'm all for Christmas parties to start in October. That is the time of year that I go and I would like to be able to go to MVMCP every once in a while.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Some people will never be able to afford Disney no matter what. For those that say "it can be done"...for some people it will never be done.

I was raised by a single working mother who was paid minimum wage for much of my young life. No matter how hard she tried she NEVER would've afforded Disney. Some people can barely afford to live and I'm not talking the Starbucks buying, cigarette smoking, biggest package of cable having people. I'm talking regular Joe's trying to make ends meet with no luxuries.

And that's ok!! Not everyone can and will go to Disney. It's not a necessity. Lots of people never step foot into a Disney park and they live meaningful and fulfilled lives.

Working poor and middle class are not the same, though. I've been both, so I speak from personal experience.

 

[Magpie]

The problem with all the upsells is they’re affecting those who choose not to buy into them. Taking space away in MK that used to be open to anyone for FW viewing and charging for it, ridiculous amount of holiday parties forcing paying guests out of the park at 6:00 several nights a week (lower hours but not lower prices), charging for parking for people staying at a resort but not those using the lot so they can get to a park without paying to park, those ridiculous cabanas (I know they’re gone now) taking up space, the list goes on and on. I admit I buy many of the upsells and I understand it’s nice to have different options but they should not affect people who are paying a lot of money for their trip too. And when they’re making record money, they’re screwing over their staff and not keeping up on repairs and cleanliness. Charging more, making more, giving less to guests and CMs. This will bite them in the butt eventually, all of this blatant greed and money grabbing. Yes, Disney is a business, but they were also a business, performing well, for decades without all of this nonsense. Some people will defend Disney no matter what, and act like if you criticize it you hate it. But I love Disney as much as anyone, and I’m still able to see its flaws. I’m a new DVC member and I plan on going for many years to come, I just hope they get their act together.

Actually, the Disney corporation has struggled at times.

2008/2009 were particularly brutal. Disney did not "perform well", and didn't really rebound until 2014.

That's very recent memory.

 

[Magpie]

Working poor and middle class are not the same, though. I've been both, so I speak from personal experience.

The middle class is no more entitled to an affordable Disney vacation than the working poor.

In a free market prices are set at what people will pay. If the price is too high, then people stop paying.

So far, people have not stopped paying. Maybe that day will come, maybe it won't. I have no idea. I not wishing economic ruin on Disney, however, since I currently am very much enjoying what they have to offer at the price they're offering it.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Working poor and middle class are not the same, though. I've been both, so I speak from personal experience.

I've just read it so much on this board that anyone can go to Disney and it's just not true.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Actually, the Disney corporation has struggled at times.

2008/2009 were particularly brutal. Disney did not "perform well", and didn't really rebound until 2014.

That's very recent memory.

Yup we went both years (2008/2009) with awesome deals.

 

[SaintsManiac]

The middle class is no more entitled to an affordable Disney vacation than the working poor.

In a free market prices are set at what people will pay. If the price is too high, then people stop paying.

So far, people have not stopped paying. Maybe that day will come, maybe it won't. I have no idea. I not wishing economic ruin on Disney, however, since I currently am very much enjoying what they have to offer at the price they're offering it.

I never said anyone is entitled to a Disney vacation. I said "it can be done" in response to broad generalizations that the working class cannot stay onsite or eat within the property. It snowballed from there.