"Membership extras question"

Steph01002

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
We bought a direct add-on to get discounts (and points at a second resort to get the 11 month advantage for a split stay), obviously knowing that they can take incidental benefits away at any time. But saw when we signed the "Receipt for Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement" paperwork the other week:

"The incidental benefits described in this statement are offered to prospective purchasers of the vacation ownership plan. These benefits are available for your use a period of 3 years or less after the first date that the vacation ownership plan is available for your use. The availability of the incidental benefits may or may not be renewed or extended. You should not purchase an interest in the vacation ownership plan in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of these benefits."

Has this 3 year statement always been on the DVC direct paperwork or is this new?
 
I was just reading that this morning... don't think I've seen that before (but then again, have only purchased resale in past). Also, my guide said to be on the lookout around March for a nice Membership Extra announcement. Not sure if that was "bus driver" territory, but I'd already given them my money so no reason to fib ;)
 
I can't speak to that specific language, but I can address it more generally. What they're essentially saying is that you should not buy for specific perks, as they may go away. However, if they offer perks, you would be eligible. Hope that helps.
 
Fl Stat § 721.075 (2) Each purchaser shall execute a separate acknowledgment and disclosure statement with respect to all incidental benefits, which statement shall include the following information:

...

(d) The following disclosure in conspicuous type immediately above the space for the purchaser’s signature:
The incidental benefit described in this statement is [are] offered to prospective purchasers of the timeshare plan [or other permitted reference pursuant to s. 721.11(5)(a)]. This [These] benefit is [are] available for your use for [some period 3 years or less] after the first date that the timeshare plan is available for your use. The availability of the incidental benefit may or may not be renewed or extended. You should not purchase an interest in the timeshare plan in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of this [these] benefit.



https://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2016/title-xl/chapter-721/part-i/section-721.075
 
Fl Stat § 721.075 (2) Each purchaser shall execute a separate acknowledgment and disclosure statement with respect to all incidental benefits, which statement shall include the following information:

...

(d) The following disclosure in conspicuous type immediately above the space for the purchaser’s signature:




https://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2016/title-xl/chapter-721/part-i/section-721.075

that statement is so weird though -- "three years or less" -- why even have to include it? Usually these laws are made for public policy in protecting consumers -- but this law has zero benefit to a consumer.
 
that statement is so weird though -- "three years or less" -- why even have to include it? Usually these laws are made for public policy in protecting consumers -- but this law has zero benefit to a consumer.

I take it as a binding grace period for the buyer. Otherwise, 5 seconds a contract is sold, the developer could immediately rescind all the perks they used to close the sale. So yes, they can--and most likely will--be taken away at some point, but at least you get them for that period of time. DVD seems to be on a 5 year cycle right now, with the current membership cards being issued at the beginning of 2016 and expiring at the end of 2021. I'll be interested to see if those of us who only bought resale (pre-4/4/2016) still get a membership card in 2022.
 
I take it as a binding grace period for the buyer. Otherwise, 5 seconds a contract is sold, the developer could immediately rescind all the perks they used to close the sale. So yes, they can--and most likely will--be taken away at some point, but at least you get them for that period of time. DVD seems to be on a 5 year cycle right now, with the current membership cards being issued at the beginning of 2016 and expiring at the end of 2021. I'll be interested to see if those of us who only bought resale (pre-4/4/2016) still get a membership card in 2022.

If it said, 3 years or less, "whichever is greater"....then I'd agree. But even then, that language wouldn't make any sense. To be interpreted as you suggest, it would have to say "for a minimum of 3 years."

I'm certainly no expert in timeshare laws -- but as an attorney, if I saw that language, there's not much I could argue. You agreed to the term of "3 years or less." That clearly only means Disney only is obligated to offer a maximum of 3 years...but even then, they could take it away whenever they wanted. It's very strange wording to be included in a statute that is aimed at buyer protection.

reminds me of advertising claims of "up to 90% better efficiency." Which essentially only means that anything under 90% improvement technically fits the ad...so even if it performs worse, that technically still fits the bill.
 
I take it not as a guarantee of minimum years of availability but as a warning that, 5 seconds after you sign, it can be taken away.

As long as DVC is selling new points, they’ll offer perks.

Some perks are easy to provide. AP discounts come at a cost but those costs are offset by increased purchase of APs and spending in park that comes with it. FL residents get discounts for the same reason; it makes economical sense to encourage frequent fliers to spend more.

DVD is trying to create a gap between direct and resale. Perks is their prime driver for that. If anything, going forward they’re going to make that gap larger, not eliminate it.
 
DVD is trying to create a gap between direct and resale. Perks is their prime driver for that. If anything, going forward they’re going to make that gap larger, not eliminate it.

I made that same point a while ago on these boards. That's actually good news for everyone* b/c it means that the perks should get even better going forward.

*yes -- post 4/4/16 resale don't get the benefits, but those purchasers (of which I am one) can always buy the 25 points direct if the perks make sense for them.
 
DVD doesn't give you perks to be nice, they give you perks to help sell new contracts. Some direct buyers and grandfathered owners love the perks but resale buyers are getting screwed. If they will screw them, they might screw us. The current perks are the brain child of the current SVP. He can offer any perks that his budget will pay for, he can take them away, the next SVP, may have a whole different way of doing business, the last two did.

:earsboy: Bill

 
DVD doesn't give you perks to be nice, they give you perks to help sell new contracts. Some direct buyers and grandfathered owners love the perks but resale buyers are getting screwed. If they will screw them, they might screw us. The current perks are the brain child of the current SVP. He can offer any perks that his budget will pay for, he can take them away, the next SVP, may have a whole different way of doing business, the last two did.

:earsboy: Bill
I agree with your first sentence 100%. However, I do not share your opinion that resale buyers are getting screwed. Those who purchase resale after 4/4/16 get exactly what they pay for by contract (which expressly states that Membership Extras are not included).

IMO, it's like buying a laptop vs a laptop "bundle". The bundles cost more than the laptop by itself and might include extras such as an extended warranty, tech support, a printer, docking station, larger monitor, etc. The laptop itself is the same product no natter which purchase option you choose. Buyer chooses according to what he/she values more.

If we want access to Membership Extras, then we need to purchase the option that includes them. At purchase we must acknowledge that we do not have the right to transfer access to ME if/when we resell the contract, and that ME are not contractually guaranteed and could change or be discontinued. I do not see that as "getting screwed". I see it as full disclosure by DVD (who offers & pays for ME).
 
I agree with your first sentence 100%. However, I do not share your opinion that resale buyers are getting screwed. Those who purchase resale after 4/4/16 get exactly what they pay for by contract (which expressly states that Membership Extras are not included).

IMO, it's like buying a laptop vs a laptop "bundle". The bundles cost more than the laptop by itself and might include extras such as an extended warranty, tech support, a printer, docking station, larger monitor, etc. The laptop itself is the same product no natter which purchase option you choose. Buyer chooses according to what he/she values more.

If we want access to Membership Extras, then we need to purchase the option that includes them. At purchase we must acknowledge that we do not have the right to transfer access to ME if/when we resell the contract, and that ME are not contractually guaranteed and could change or be discontinued. I do not see that as "getting screwed". I see it as full disclosure by DVD (who offers & pays for ME).
While I agree that resale buyers are getting what they contractually agreed to buy, I think the restrictions are unnecesssry and bad business.

First, the perks themselves. Many of them just don’t cost that much more to offer to everyone and to the extent that they do, are standard offerings to frequent guests.

AP and dining/merch discounts. Similar deals are made with FL residents and similar discounts are offered to pass holders. It’s just good business practice to offer some discounts to your frequent/best customers. When you get out of the DVC silo, resale buyers will be some of Disney’s best customers.

Events/Lounges. With the exception of a few more soda station refills, what’s the extra cost of allowing everybody? Many of the events are limited capacity so DVC is already selling the opportunity to attend and not guaranteed access.

DVD might be paying for these perks, but they are perks that Disney would either routinely offer frequent guests anyway, or do not cost significantly more to open up to everyone.

The purpose of restricting the perks is to create a stigma in favor of buying direct.

And that’s just unnecessary.

1. Many direct buyers don’t know the first thing about resale so the argument that there’s a class difference between resale and direct would serve little more than to educate a buyer about the existence of resale.

2. Disney has access to more people to pitch their wares than any timeshare on the planet. If they even attempted to maximize that, they’d have all the timeshare business they could build.

3. Disney vastly undervalued DVC in the beginning. Starting after the 9/11/01 effect on the parks, DVC went on a decade long quest to find the top end of their market. They found it at $160/point. At $176, DVC was selling about 80K/points per month. When they started offering discounts to bring the effective price back down to around $160, sales doubled.

4. DVC advertises as a club. It’s in their name. And club means something very different, very special, and very distinctive to Disney. M-I-C...K-E-Y. To create tiers is so very unnecessary. Even resale buyers are committing to spending 10s of thousands of dollars at Disney. And those selling their points are doing so because for whatever reason, financial or enjoyment, their ability to come spend a ton of cash has died. So they’re selling to new owners highly motivated to come spend a ton of cash. Resale churn of customers is phenomenal business for Disney.

5. To me, what makes DVC special is that they could always afford to not be just another timeshare. They turned the industry on its head with their points system. They don’t nickel and dime to death. You don’t have to beg them for a parking pass without first commiting to go to an “owners update” sales pitch. DVC used to be an innovator. They were something special and they knew it. They could and still can afford to be. To see them go down the road of being ‘just another timeshare’ is sad to me.

Yes. “All timeshares do it.” That used to be heretical thinking at DVC. Sad to see it’s now their MO.
 
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It may be bad business - but I'm not so sure that it really is, because it seems to be working. I'm basing that on the number of resale purchasers who are reporting also buying 25 points direct.

Since it's my belief that most resale purchasers were never going to buy direct anyway, this is a win for Disney. Since those purchasers already have contracts, it's not going to cost more to administer the small add-on contracts, either. It's a win for many DVC members as well, because it should encourage DVD to continue to offer perks members want.

My point in the previous post was just that if there is full upfront disclosure, people can make informed decisions. If there s full disclosure than claims of "getting screwed" are not valid.
 
It may be bad business - but I'm not so sure that it really is, because it seems to be working. I'm basing that on the number of resale purchasers who are reporting also buying 25 points direct.

Since it's my belief that most resale purchasers were never going to buy direct anyway, this is a win for Disney. Since those purchasers already have contracts, it's not going to cost more to administer the small add-on contracts, either. It's a win for many DVC members as well, because it should encourage DVD to continue to offer perks members want.

My point in the previous post was just that if there is full upfront disclosure, people can make informed decisions. If there s full disclosure than claims of "getting screwed" are not valid.

1. I agree that full disclosure = not being directly screwed because you know what you bought. I think the restrictions are screwy in and of themselves.

2. My best guess is that DVC isn’t looking at the 25 point add ons as great business. The very people they want to impress with their restrictions are the people aware of resales. You don’t have to research resales for very long without finding the 25 point advice. My guess is DVC sees the 25 point add on as a loophole that it will soon close.

3. Offering perks that traditionally line up with other frequent flyer bonuses should be something DVC is interested in doing regardless of the impact on resale/direct buyers. It’s a tool that can bring new buyers to the direct purchase table just as effectively whether how it impacts resale buyers is mentioned at all.

The idea that there must be a distinction between resale and direct is silo thinking. And it goes against the stated nature of the deal. It’s a club, but some of us have a special secret handshake and it’s blue instead of white. That might not violate the terms of the contract, but in my opinion, it does great damage to the spirit of the deal.

It takes away some of the pixie dust that Disney is pushing all around its DVC component.
 
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It may be bad business - but I'm not so sure that it really is, because it seems to be working. I'm basing that on the number of resale purchasers who are reporting also buying 25 points direct.

My wife and I just did a direct 30 point add on because we needed more points, and not for the membership extras. We did it because it was cheaper and easier than trying to buy 25 on the resale market! For whatever reasons, those small 25 to 50 point contracts now carry a huge premium, and higher closing costs, that, in many cases, push them beyond the price asked by Disney direct. So, not every 25 point contract is being done for access for membership extras.
 
If we are pretty much in agreement that "extras" are offered in order to sell new contracts, what would prevent DVD from discontinuing the extras being offered to anyone after a certain number of years, whether resale or direct? They could decide that after 3 years, our extras expire and unless we purchase an additional new contract, we end up outside looking in. I'm not saying this is likely to happen, but I don't see it at odds with a more aggressive future sales policy either. And since we've all been signing the full disclosure statements, we'd have very little recourse, except for the usual howls here on the DIS.

But hold the howls, as I said I don't think it's likely. Just possible.
 
If we are pretty much in agreement that "extras" are offered in order to sell new contracts, what would prevent DVD from discontinuing the extras being offered to anyone after a certain number of years, whether resale or direct? They could decide that after 3 years, our extras expire and unless we purchase an additional new contract, we end up outside looking in. I'm not saying this is likely to happen, but I don't see it at odds with a more aggressive future sales policy either. And since we've all been signing the full disclosure statements, we'd have very little recourse, except for the usual howls here on the DIS.

But hold the howls, as I said I don't think it's likely. Just possible.

Because there would be no distinction between resale and direct, which however misguided, is currently DVC’s intent.

3 years of a 50 year contract is negligible. If in 3 short years a direct buyer is going to be in the same boat as a resale buyer, then why bother paying direct prices?

I think time-limiting perks to direct buyers would have the opposite effect: it would drive buyers to resale. If I’m going to be treated like a resale owner, I should at least pay those prices.

Perks are a good selling point irrespective of direct/resale. Frequent fliers should get perks, irrespective of direct/resale.

They aren’t going to time limit them unless they do away with them altogether. And cost to benefit, that’s not going to happen, either.

It would make no more sense to get rid of a DVC AP discount than it would to get rid of a Florida resident AP discount. DVC members, who’ll be back soon enough, have little incentive over time to be park commandos. But the parks are where many of the shops and restaurants are. Incentivizing going into the parks for people who have a choice about it is just good business sense.
 
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I would think that DVD would want all owners to get discounted AP's because that insures that you make at least 2 trips in a year to make it worth buying an AP in the first place, thus you need to buy enough points to go twice in a year.
 

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