need your opinion on my points rental situation

g-dub

Earning My Ears
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Am I unreasonable for being upset about this situation?

I rented points through David's for a 1BR at OKW over New Year's Eve. Rented a few months ago, my situation has changed and now I won't be able to go.

I completely understand that this is a nonrefundable reservation, and David's is well within their rights to say use it or lose it.

However I emailed and called David's, and they did say they would make an "exception." They are willing to try to resell the reservation, but in order to do so, require a $4/pt fee.

My stay was 226 points, so to NOT go on my trip will cost me $904. Even if I found a friend or family to take over the same reservation, there is a $3/pt fee.

Obviously, if they can't find anyone to take the points or reservation - then I'm out all of the money. I totally get that, I took the rental knowing it was nonrefundable.

I get it, they don't have to do anything. I guess I should be grateful they are willing to do anything. But to be honest, I am really annoyed by how steep this fee is. In my mind, if they are willing to work with a customer then the terms should be reasonable. I am perfectly willing to accept a fee that would cover their cost of finding a new renter. But almost a thousand dollars seems excessive to me, and to be honest, like a blatant money grab. This is a high demand period where I'm sure there will be no availability, and finding a renter to take it over will not be challenging.

I don't have trip insurance, and it likely wouldn't cover this anyway as this is just us deciding we can't make this trip, not because of any event or significant issue.

I'm stewing over this, and I've contacted David's several times, they are completely unwilling to budge.

Does anyone else find this excessive, or am I being unreasonable?
 
That's about what they charge an owner to rent their points as well. The spread between pay-per-point and rental intake by David's is $3, generally. It is not out of the range of the market.

You also have a very specific reservation that will not be extendable for other nights. It's not actually perfectly easy to get people into confirmed reservations.

Because you have a contract, and have to go to David's to have an owner make any changes to the booking, you either need to suck up and pay, or suck up and take the loss.

You're dealing with a DVC booking, and these are the general rules and conditions.
 
Yep definitely going to have to just pay the fee, I suppose.

I guess my complaint is that they have already collected their $3/pt for this reservation - and now if this goes through they will collect a total of $7/pt for the same points. That's what I think is excessive. If they wanted to charge $1-$1.50 for their time in transferring the reservation, I would get that.
 
I think you are being unreasonable. You are aware you have a contract where you could lose everything if you don't go. This is giving you an opportunity to recover a large portion of your cost and not lose thousands of dollars. They could just take all your money and be well within their rights.
 


As aurora said, that's the going fee to rent points out through David. It wouldn't exactly be fair if he charged you less to rent out "your" points than he charges everyone else.

There is no less work for David and his team to rent that reservation the second time than there was the first time. And if I were the owner on the other end, I'd be looking for a cut, because my contract with David says no changes on the primary name. So its possible that David isn't getting the full $3.
 
Am I unreasonable for being upset about this situation?

I rented points through David's for a 1BR at OKW over New Year's Eve. Rented a few months ago, my situation has changed and now I won't be able to go.

I completely understand that this is a nonrefundable reservation, and David's is well within their rights to say use it or lose it.

However I emailed and called David's, and they did say they would make an "exception." They are willing to try to resell the reservation, but in order to do so, require a $4/pt fee.

My stay was 226 points, so to NOT go on my trip will cost me $904. Even if I found a friend or family to take over the same reservation, there is a $3/pt fee.

Obviously, if they can't find anyone to take the points or reservation - then I'm out all of the money. I totally get that, I took the rental knowing it was nonrefundable.

I get it, they don't have to do anything. I guess I should be grateful they are willing to do anything. But to be honest, I am really annoyed by how steep this fee is. In my mind, if they are willing to work with a customer then the terms should be reasonable. I am perfectly willing to accept a fee that would cover their cost of finding a new renter. But almost a thousand dollars seems excessive to me, and to be honest, like a blatant money grab. This is a high demand period where I'm sure there will be no availability, and finding a renter to take it over will not be challenging.

I don't have trip insurance, and it likely wouldn't cover this anyway as this is just us deciding we can't make this trip, not because of any event or significant issue.

I'm stewing over this, and I've contacted David's several times, they are completely unwilling to budge.

Does anyone else find this excessive, or am I being unreasonable?
I guess maybe you would garner more sympathy from a group of renters instead of crying to a bunch of owners.

David's doesn't just have a contract with you. They also have a contract with the owner. The owner fulfilled their obligation by securing the reservation and putting it in your name. They deserve to be paid. David's did what they are contractually obligated to do - they matched you with an owner, securely collected your payment and held a portion of it in escrow to ensure that they don't cheat you out of your villa. Now, you want them to find a new renter (something that they don't have to do), have the owner make all of the necessary changes (that reservation is linked to your MDE, I'm not sure how this will work), and you're complaining that you're not being given a big enough break.

Is David's fee for finding a new renter excessive? Possibly. But it's there to deter people from doing exactly what you're doing.

Do I think that you are being unreasonable? Yes.
 
You say that you are just choosing not to go. To me, unless otherwise indicated, that means you COULD still go, but just have other plans or are backing out.

Who do YOU think should lose the money at this point? David's, who did what they were supposed to? Or the owner who made your reservation and anything else you needed?
 


You are very lucky that David's is willing to do anything for you. By trying to find another renter for your reservation, David's has to do twice the work. As does the owner.

If I were the owner of your points, I would not be pleased with this situation. You violated the contract and are upset with how everyone is trying to help you.

Either pay David's the fee he wants for renting the reservation and only be out $904 or cancel and be out the whole rental.

Renting points isn't for everyone. You have just found out one of the drawbacks.
 
You are very lucky that David's is willing to do anything for you. By trying to find another renter for your reservation, David's has to do twice the work. As does the owner.

If I were the owner of your points, I would not be pleased with this situation. You violated the contract and are upset with how everyone is trying to help you.

Either pay David's the fee he wants for renting the reservation and only be out $904 or cancel and be out the whole rental.

Renting points isn't for everyone. You have just found out one of the drawbacks.

Completely agree with this, in my opinion, you are being unreasonable.
 
I do see the OPs point. I think a flat fee or something would be fairer. Or stick to the terms and don't allow any changes, but the fee seems excessive especially since the "owner" won't get anything. (And twice the work? Really, it's twice the work for me to call Disney and say "change name a to name b?" If it's that much work why are spec reservations so popular?)

Plus $3 per point to change a name?? ? Sounds like we are dealing with an airline here LOL!

If I were renting the points I would probably tell the OP he/she was stuck but I would be willing to change the name on the reservation for free if they could find someone to take it.
 
I do see the OPs point. I think a flat fee or something would be fairer. Or stick to the terms and don't allow any changes, but the fee seems excessive especially since the "owner" won't get anything. (And twice the work? Really, it's twice the work for me to call Disney and say "change name a to name b?" If it's that much work why are spec reservations so popular?)

Plus $3 per point to change a name?? ? Sounds like we are dealing with an airline here LOL!

If I were renting the points I would probably tell the OP he/she was stuck but I would be willing to change the name on the reservation for free if they could find someone to take it.
But this wouldn't be just a case of changing a name. David's would have to find a new renter for the OP's exact dates. They may have to take a lower $/pt. amount because of that. They have to process a refund to the OP and collect payment from the new renter. A new agreement with the owner would have to be generated. The owner would have to be in agreement with the new terms. There's basically the same amount of work for the staff at David's to re-rent that reservation as it took to make the first rental agreement. In fact, possibly more work as they field a plethora of questions from potential renters who would like to change the dates, shorten the stay, have a larger or smaller villa or offer less $/pt in the hopes of getting a bargain.
 
$4/pt isn't bad. That's around 25%, right? If you'd rented from an owner, I'd think you'd have put 50% down, and if you cancelled and had a compelling reason, you could probably talk them into giving you half of that back. But, those people tied up their points for 3 months and now miss the opportunity to book Xmas/New Years at 11 mo, so you should have to pay something. On the other hand, this was a missed opportunity by David's to earn a customer for life. The options they gave you are going to leave you soured with them so they lose a future customer forever by not being more amenable. If you'd rented from me I'd do everything I could to work it out including let you change the party or move it to future dates. For a full cancel, I think 25% is pretty fair and I can't see someone going much below that for having tied up the points thru the most valuable months.
 
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Thanks everyone for your feedback and opinions. This is why I posted, to get others opinions. I had considered posting negative feedback for David's but wasn't sure that was fair, and I think after reading some of these replied I am convinced to keep my opinions to myself.

In all fairness, the owners of these points are not involved with this at all - as far as they know their points are rented - even if David's does process a refund for me that is ONLY if another renter is found - if no renter is found, I'm 100% out of luck and the owner keeps their money. That's what I would expect, as I knew it was nonrefundable. The owner has to do nothing, as far as I understand, other than call and change the name of David's finds a new renter. So the owner here is out nothing and has no risk (as it should be).

I think a 25% fee would be quite reasonable if truly I was just canceling and getting my money back, potentially causing inconvenience to the owners, but that's not what this would be.

But this wouldn't be just a case of changing a name. David's would have to find a new renter for the OP's exact dates. They may have to take a lower $/pt. amount because of that. They have to process a refund to the OP and collect payment from the new renter. A new agreement with the owner would have to be generated. The owner would have to be in agreement with the new terms. There's basically the same amount of work for the staff at David's to re-rent that reservation as it took to make the first rental agreement. In fact, possibly more work as they field a plethora of questions from potential renters who would like to change the dates, shorten the stay, have a larger or smaller villa or offer less $/pt in the hopes of getting a bargain.

I doubt they would take a lower $/pt as this is over New Years and all of the dedicated reservations for rent on their site are $16-17/pt during slower times, and I rented at $15.

I do agree with you however about the the fact that Davids would have to process a refund, collect new payment, post the reservation, generate a new agreeement and answer my and others various questions. No doubt there is more work here. I would be quite suprised, however, if all of that work is more than 5 hours, say, which is probably a generous estimate? At $904 that is $180/hr? Seems steep...

I don't mean to be "crying" to owners - truly and legitimately looking for honest feedback. As someone mentioned above, I'm just disappointed. I have used David's twice before and it was great! I am soured now...
 
In all fairness, the owners of these points are not involved with this at all - as far as they know their points are rented - even if David's does process a refund for me that is ONLY if another renter is found - if no renter is found, I'm 100% out of luck and the owner keeps their money. That's what I would expect, as I knew it was nonrefundable. The owner has to do nothing, as far as I understand, other than call and change the name of David's finds a new renter. So the owner here is out nothing and has no risk (as it should be)
The owner still has to make that call. Regardless of the little amount of work you feel it is, it is still time spent waiting in a telephone queue to take care of something that they had considered to be a done deal. I wouldn't be happy if I were the owner on the other end of this deal.

And while the owner gets to keep their money, they also gave up their points in exchange for that cash. In all likelihood, they won't see anything extra for sitting on hold with MS so that the new renter can be placed on the reservation.

So let's review here. The owner upheld their part of the agreement. David's kept to their part of the agreement. YOU want to renege on the agreement. Who should pay the price? You can be upset over losing a hefty chunk of change but you're lucky that David's even offered to try to work something out so that you're not losing everything. You knew that the money was nonrefundable. Be upset with yourself.
 
In all fairness, the owners of these points are not involved with this at all - as far as they know their points are rented - even if David's does process a refund for me that is ONLY if another renter is found - if no renter is found, I'm 100% out of luck and the owner keeps their money. That's what I would expect, as I knew it was nonrefundable. The owner has to do nothing, as far as I understand, other than call and change the name of David's finds a new renter. So the owner here is out nothing and has no risk (as it should be).
.

As an owner who just rented out a bunch of points with David's, I can tell you that the owner will be involved. They will have to call DVC to change the names. They also may have to call DVC to add the new renter's magical express. They may have to call to add the dining plan. They may have to add room requests. They may have to add or delete members of the new travel party.

I know this because I just had to do all these things plus some for a renter. The owner has already done all this for you and will have to repeat the process for a new renter who may need many more things than you did.

I hope the owner will be compensated for all the additional work.
 
I don't see why everyone is saying the $4/point is just to David's. You don't know what the payout to the owner is. And the owner will be jumping through more hoops.
 
I had considered posting negative feedback for David's but wasn't sure that was fair, and I think after reading some of these replied I am convinced to keep my opinions to myself.

It's not fair. Why would you post negative feedback when you are getting a substantial amount of your money back when according to the terms you agreed to, you could be getting nothing back? I'm sorry but I just don't understand being upset at David's. Upset at being out money, yes. But I would be grateful to the company for the fact that I'm not out the entire amount.

Why is your opinion of what is reasonable any more legitimate than the rental company's opinion?

Let me ask this-would you feel better if they had simply said, sorry, you agreed to this and we will not give you an opportunity to get any of your money back.
 
Did you get travel insurance? I know for a fact that while David's does not sell it, they make a big deal of making sure you check into it.... For this very reason. That you are soured by a transaction you entered into knowing full well the limitations is a negative reflection on you...not David's. Sorry to be so blunt.
 
Name one item of the current scenario which is in violation or conflict with the contract you signed with David's?

Do you think the contract is unfair? I suppose that could be feedback, but the reason why most points rental transactions are considered final when made -- whether through a broker or a private party - is because of the mechanics of the owner-timeshare contract. While the owner behind your rental wasn't using premium points or paid home resort premium (OKW 1BR), we have no visibility to their UY. The points have been tied up for a while. If the owner were to cancel the reservation, the points might not be easily re-rented (depending on UY, bank/borrow status, etc.) within the needed timeline for the owner.

There is a cost to "I saved so much with DVC rental points!" You're encountering the cost right now: It is not flexible. You're accessing a non-flexible system. It's not the agency or the owner making it inflexible; it's the system's nature.
 

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