Projected DVC Maintenance Fees

[CastAStone]

I do think part of future dues is predictable based on the inherent attributes of the property.

I have assumed SSR (and to a extent, OKW) dues are low per room night because they were built in a 3 story condo style format, which is by far the most cost efficient format for maintenance and upkeep. There’s a reason that Super 8 and Motel 6 and similar hotels are most often three stories tall. Not to mention the all stars and the moderates.

SSR also has outdoor-ish hallways that don’t require heating and less intense cleaning. Less common area equals lower dues.

As @i<3riviera pointed out, Poly and VGF are low in part because the points per room are so high. As I showed in the below, the dues per room night for these resorts are actually on the higher side.

Annual Average Dues per Night, Sorted by Price

This is based on the average dues per night one would pay if you had exactly enough points to stay every night in that room style for a year.

Resort	Room Type	View	Average Dues per Room Night
AKV	Deluxe Studio	Value	$ 81.31
SSR	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 98.03
BWV	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 102.95
OKW	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 107.63
AKV	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 111.54
SSR	Deluxe Studio	Preferred	$ 113.17
BLT	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 117.54
BCV	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 122.81
CCV	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 128.74
RVA	Tower	Standard	$ 130.15
BWV	Deluxe Studio	Boardwalk/Pool	$ 130.65
BLT	Deluxe Studio	Lake	$ 133.38
BRV	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 135.34
AKV	Deluxe Studio	Savannah	$ 139.61
VGF	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 141.53
Poly	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 147.43
BLT	Deluxe Studio	MK	$ 161.00
RVA	Deluxe Studio	Standard	$ 161.22
VGF	Deluxe Studio	Lake	$ 165.82
AKV	One-Bedroom	Value	$ 172.53
AKV	Deluxe Studio	Club	$ 174.88
Poly	Deluxe Studio	Lake	$ 175.64
RVA	Deluxe Studio	Preferred	$ 199.56
SSR	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 203.17
BWV	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 208.14
AKV	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 221.86
OKW	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 222.40
BLT	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 227.69
AKV	Two-Bedroom	Value	$ 230.92
SSR	One-Bedroom	Preferred	$ 232.38
BCV	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 247.92
SSR	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 257.37
BLT	One-Bedroom	Lake	$ 257.82
BWV	One-Bedroom	Boardwalk/Pool	$ 261.35
CCV	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 263.55
AKV	One-Bedroom	Savannah	$ 270.46
BRV	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 275.40
BWV	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 286.33
VGF	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 287.18
AKV	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 287.22
OKW	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 301.84
BLT	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 305.37
SSR	Two-Bedroom	Preferred	$ 307.98
BLT	One-Bedroom	MK	$ 310.61
SSR	Treehouse	Standard	$ 322.09
BCV	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 323.95
RVA	One-Bedroom	Standard	$ 334.95
BLT	Two-Bedroom	Lake	$ 336.63
BWV	Two-Bedroom	Boardwalk/Pool	$ 339.52
CCV	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 341.24
VGF	One-Bedroom	Lake	$ 345.66
BRV	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 356.25
AKV	One-Bedroom	Club	$ 361.13
AKV	Two-Bedroom	Savannah	$ 366.47
VGF	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 395.48
BLT	Two-Bedroom	MK	$ 410.55
RVA	One-Bedroom	Preferred	$ 417.41
RVA	Two-Bedroom	Standard	$ 438.74
VGF	Two-Bedroom	Lake	$ 468.28
OKW	Grand Villa	Standard	$ 476.49
AKV	Two-Bedroom	Club	$ 486.58
RVA	Two-Bedroom	Preferred	$ 531.88
SSR	Grand Villa	Standard	$ 565.50
SSR	Grand Villa	Preferred	$ 646.79
AKV	Grand Villa	Standard	$ 669.47
BLT	Grand Villa	Lake	$ 715.67
BWV	Grand Villa	Boardwalk/Pool	$ 725.79
AKV	Grand Villa	Savannah	$ 732.54
CCV	Cabin	Standard	$ 852.11
BLT	Grand Villa	MK	$ 860.94
CCV	Grand Villa	Standard	$ 899.26
VGF	Grand Villa	Lake	$ 948.74
Poly	Bungalow	Lake	$ 998.03
RVA	Grand Villa	Standard	$ 1,088.10

VB and HHI Will always be higher than all of the other resorts for intrinsic reasons around insurance costs and damage. For these reasons, they will also almost certainly increase at rates higher than all of the other resorts, in perpetuity.

@i<3riviera posted some links in another thread on timeshare economics yesterday, and one of the things I noticed in one of the documents was that across the industry, the ocean resorts have the highest dues rate increases, Hawaii being the worst.

I wonder if in the long run, the bungalows may have some of these same issues. As Doctor Who said, water always wins.

So to answer Your question @Pluto777, I don’t think it’s unpredictable, I think buying those resorts is going to give you ever increasing annual dues, and in the long run you will regret buying there, unless you’re buying there to stay there. If you want cheap, buy at Saratoga Springs.

 

[CarolynFH]

Resurrecting this old/new thread because there’s food for thought in this article from Redweek: https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek/covid-special-assessment-fees

 

[Dean]

Resurrecting this old/new thread because there’s food for thought in this article from Redweek: https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek/covid-special-assessment-fees

The bottom line is that owners have to pay for the costs of the resorts they own just like it was a condo. This is true in this environment and even if not able to use it. One needs to understand these risks going in.

 

[CarolMN]

The bottom line is that owners have to pay for the costs of the resorts they own just like it was a condo. This is true in this environment and even if not able to use it. One needs to understand these risks going in.

Estimated operating costs (and thus dues) may go up for 2021 due to more cleaning requirements, but doesn't Disney have to pay for budget overruns in 2020 due to the guarantee they receive in turn for not paying dues on the points they own? If so, there shouldn't be any special assessments for 2020, right?

 

[Dean]

Estimated operating costs (and thus dues) may go up for 2021 due to more cleaning requirements, but doesn't Disney have to pay for budget overruns in 2020 due to the guarantee they receive in turn for not paying dues on the points they own? If so, there shouldn't be any special assessments for 2020, right?

Has Disney even had a special assessment? I know VB came close a few years ago but I'm thinking they didn't have one. While it's true they have to cover any overages in a given year, I'm thinking this would be after reserves are completed and then they'd have to build back the reserves. Plus if there are additional costs, and less offsets such as rentals, they will simply project higher costs going forward so higher dues. I do not see the requirement of them covering overages as a protection just like I don't see the limit on reallocation or fee increase a protection. Certainly there are savings and costs for the current time and anticipated costs in the future which must be budgeted.

 

[Sandisw]

Has Disney even had a special assessment? I know VB came close a few years ago but I'm thinking they didn't have one. While it's true they have to cover any overages in a given year, I'm thinking this would be after reserves are completed and then they'd have to build back the reserves. Plus if there are additional costs, and less offsets such as rentals, they will simply project higher costs going forward so higher dues. I do not see the requirement of them covering overages as a protection just like I don't see the limit on reallocation or fee increase a protection. Certainly there are savings and costs for the current time and anticipated costs in the future which must be budgeted.

I wonder if this is why we have seen things like furlough, etc. it is there way of keeping costs down to avoid a shortfall,

It would still be interesting to know how costs are being split at places like BWV, Poly, etc. when hotel side is closed.

 

[Dean]

I wonder if this is why we have seen things like furlough, etc. it is there way of keeping costs down to avoid a shortfall,

It would still be interesting to know how costs are being split at places like BWV, Poly, etc. when hotel side is closed.

Since each resort has to pay it's own way, I assume those who own at those resorts will directly pay for the direct and applicable costs including front desk, bell, housekeeping, etc. Any staff working in the non DVC portion should be covered otherwise. I suspect that certain normally shared positions that would have to be functioning even when all closed such as security and certain upper level management would still be a shared cost. This extends to transportation costs. It would be a fair question of DVCMC as to how this is shaking down.

 

[drusba]

Estimated operating costs (and thus dues) may go up for 2021 due to more cleaning requirements, but doesn't Disney have to pay for budget overruns in 2020 due to the guarantee they receive in turn for not paying dues on the points they own? If so, there shouldn't be any special assessments for 2020, right?

As to DVD's guarantee to cover any expenses incurred in excess of dues collected for the year, there is a stated exception (see annual budget for any resort usually note 2) :

"Any Common Expenses incurred during the guarantee period resulting from a natural disaster or act of God, which are not covered by insurance proceeds from the insurance maintained by the Association, will be assessed against all owners owning ownership interests on the date of such natural disaster or act of God, or their successors or assigns."

It is questionable that the associations had insurance. Property insurance policies in general provide coverage for any such disasters or acts God to the extent they cause actual physical injury to property, which has not literally occurred with Covid, although arguments are likely to made otherwise. A number of nsurers actually have special endorsements that one can purchase to cover pandemic costs but, at least before Covid, few were purchasing those endorsements.

Thus, there is at least some possibility of a special assessment, although I sense that it is doubtful. DVC is still collecting all the same annual dues as originally estimated at the beginning of the year. Though there are likely new covid-related costs not contemplated in late 2019 when the budget was issued, there has been some savings in costs during the closing of the resorts and even now because of the lack of full operations.

 

[lexxus379]

Any chance RR doesnt increase as much as others since it’s already on the high end of MF’s?

 

[Sandisw]

Any chance RR doesnt increase as much as others since it’s already on the high end of MF’s?

Anything is possible. Since the resort opened just before 2020 and no actual year when these dues were calculated, I think there is a good chance.

 

[AvidDisReader]

On newly opened Resorts, there is usually not an increase after the first full year of offering, costs are anticipated so that the first increase in RR case would be in 2022. My prediction is a slight increase across the board on all DVC's for next year, most due to the labor contract that increases the minimum pay rate. As mentioned above, any increase in cleaning and Covid related precautions should be offset by the resorts being shut down for approx 3 months with related furloughs.

 

[The Jackal]

I do think part of future dues is predictable based on the inherent attributes of the property.

I have assumed SSR (and to a extent, OKW) dues are low per room night because they were built in a 3 story condo style format, which is by far the most cost efficient format for maintenance and upkeep. There’s a reason that Super 8 and Motel 6 and similar hotels are most often three stories tall. Not to mention the all stars and the moderates.

SSR also has outdoor-ish hallways that don’t require heating and less intense cleaning. Less common area equals lower dues.

As @i<3riviera pointed out, Poly and VGF are low in part because the points per room are so high. As I showed in the below, the dues per room night for these resorts are actually on the higher side.


VB and HHI Will always be higher than all of the other resorts for intrinsic reasons around insurance costs and damage. For these reasons, they will also almost certainly increase at rates higher than all of the other resorts, in perpetuity.

@i<3riviera posted some links in another thread on timeshare economics yesterday, and one of the things I noticed in one of the documents was that across the industry, the ocean resorts have the highest dues rate increases, Hawaii being the worst.

I wonder if in the long run, the bungalows may have some of these same issues. As Doctor Who said, water always wins.

So to answer Your question @Pluto777, I don’t think it’s unpredictable, I think buying those resorts is going to give you ever increasing annual dues, and in the long run you will regret buying there, unless you’re buying there to stay there. If you want cheap, buy at Saratoga Springs.

Aren’t SSR buildings are 4 stories tall not 3.

Yes VGF and PVB And even BLT have low maintenance fees, but with the high points per night makes fees per room high. At RIV both the MF’s and points per night are sky high. Making it a double whammy and an outlier.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I do not think DVC will be hit as hard as other timeshares because DVC is still running at almost full capacity.