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skyblue17

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
It's almost incredible how horribly this entire Astros thing has been bungled. It's going to stretch into the regular season now that players are speaking out against Astros players and Manfred has stated that pitchers cannot retaliate (note: I do not approve physical retaliation, but I don't blame guys who feel the need to take things into their own hands in this case). It's going to affect the strike zone, pitchers will be punished more seriously than any of the Astros players have been for what they've participated in and the whole thing is just so mismanaged from a PR perspective. What a mess.
 
It boggles my mind how the players involved are not being punished (unless I'm missing something). Pete Rose has recently tried to get his lifetime ban removed and after hearing his logic vs. the Astros, he makes sense.

You're right about the strike zone vs. Astro players and that actually should result in the Astros hitters having yet another advantage.
 
Not only are they not being punished, they're trying to act like having to answers question about it and people being pissed at them is a sufficient punishment.
 
What a horrible message to send to our youth. You can cheat, don't get caught, and even if you do get caught the manager/coach will pay the price, not you. My father (former MLB scout for >30 years) would be livid about this debacle if he was still alive.

I do think that in opposing stadiums those Astro players involved will be severely heckled (and rightly so).
 


The Trashstos should have had their title stripped. Period. They will be heavily booed and heckled in every ballpark outside of Minute Maid (and rightly so). I also won't be surprised to see quite a few players get hit. Ranger fans have known for years that the Lastros are cheating trash.
 
It boggles my mind how the players involved are not being punished (unless I'm missing something). Pete Rose has recently tried to get his lifetime ban removed and after hearing his logic vs. the Astros, he makes sense.

You're right about the strike zone vs. Astro players and that actually should result in the Astros hitters having yet another advantage.
With Rose, it's a gambling issue vs cheating issue, so I can't really equate the two. His deal probably has more in common with the Black Sox scandal.

The Trashstos should have had their title stripped. Period. They will be heavily booed and heckled in every ballpark outside of Minute Maid (and rightly so). I also won't be surprised to see quite a few players get hit. Ranger fans have known for years that the Lastros are cheating trash.
They haven't exactly done well in the past with preventing pitchers from intentionally hitting players, so it will be interesting to see how many balls "get away from" the pitcher.

The problem with stripping the title is that it's already won, they've had their parade and players have gotten paid based on that victory, so you're really just removing a milestone. Given that they've already taken away draft picks, I'd ban the Astros and Red Sox from the playoffs. But don't tell them yet - do it in September.
 
I heard this morning that they are going to increase penalties for hitting batters. Apparently they are anticipating it now. I can't even.
 


I heard this morning that they are going to increase penalties for hitting batters. Apparently they are anticipating it now. I can't even.
The thing is, when you look at the big picture, MLB has to do this. They don't want an escalating war where Astros hitters get plunked and the Astros pitchers feel like they need to retaliate. And this is something they should've have done years ago, so while the timing is dubious, I can't argue with it.

But as I mentioned, the enforcement of intentionally hitting a batter has not been good in the past, and I suspect it will be similar so long as a pitcher can make a reasonable case of a ball "getting away from them". So it's likely that you're going to stand a better chance of ejection for looking at Angel Hernandez funny for a bad call than for hitting a batter.
 
The thing is, when you look at the big picture, MLB has to do this. They don't want an escalating war where Astros hitters get plunked and the Astros pitchers feel like they need to retaliate. And this is something they should've have done years ago, so while the timing is dubious, I can't argue with it.

But as I mentioned, the enforcement of intentionally hitting a batter has not been good in the past, and I suspect it will be similar so long as a pitcher can make a reasonable case of a ball "getting away from them". So it's likely that you're going to stand a better chance of ejection for looking at Angel Hernandez funny for a bad call than for hitting a batter.
Oh, I get that they have to. My "I can't even" is just with the entire situation.
 
That and we've seen teams get warned for pitching up and in and whatnot. Teams facing the Astros are essentially going in with a disadvantage because any potential HBP will get someone tossed.
 
It boggles my mind how the players involved are not being punished (unless I'm missing something). Pete Rose has recently tried to get his lifetime ban removed and after hearing his logic vs. the Astros, he makes sense.

You're right about the strike zone vs. Astro players and that actually should result in the Astros hitters having yet another advantage.

Pete Rose's situation is a travesty.

With Rose, it's a gambling issue vs cheating issue, so I can't really equate the two. His deal probably has more in common with the Black Sox scandal.


They haven't exactly done well in the past with preventing pitchers from intentionally hitting players, so it will be interesting to see how many balls "get away from" the pitcher.

The problem with stripping the title is that it's already won, they've had their parade and players have gotten paid based on that victory, so you're really just removing a milestone. Given that they've already taken away draft picks, I'd ban the Astros and Red Sox from the playoffs. But don't tell them yet - do it in September.

I agree you can't really equate the two situations. Pete never bet against his team. It's impossible for one player in baseball (that isn't a pitcher or maybe a catcher) to fix a game. If they did, they could only contribute to a loss not guarantee a win. He's being punished for having faith in his teammates. That's ridiculous. What the Astros did is much worse.
 
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I agree you can't really equate the two situations. Pete never bet against his team. It's impossible for one player in baseball (that isn't a pitcher or maybe a catcher) to fix a game. If they did, they could only contribute to a loss not guarantee a win. He's being punished for having faith in his teammates. That's ridiculous. What the Astros did is much worse.
It wasn't a punishment for having faith in his teammates. It was a clear cut violation of the rules with a clear cut punishment.

With the Astros, I think it's less clear what the punishment should be, but it seems pretty obvious that they got off light. I think that, unofficially, Cora and Beltran and Hinch won't be getting any MLB jobs again, but there needed to be a tougher stance. Again, banning the Astros and Red Sox from the playoffs (but not telling them until September) would seem to be a just punishment.
 
It's also shaping up to be a union issue, because you have some guys vocally very upset and then you have guys on the Astros.
 
Pete Rose's induction into the Hall of Fame can be considered after his death. Until then, he needs to abide by the lifetime ban...to which he agreed.

This is one of the problems with professional athletes. The rules seemingly never apply to them, only to everyone else. Their situation is, of course, unique. 🙄
 
I'm aghast at how this was handled. This was systematic cheating in at least two organizations. The penalties they've put in place so far are pitiful and will not prevent similar cheating in the future. They should force the owners to sell the teams and ban every manager, coach, and player on each team. I know that is an extreme response but I'm of the opinion that you set a "death penalty" example for such things or you're welcoming similar cheating. Maybe there's a strict but less extreme penalty but it needs to hit top to bottom - from the owner down to the manager and coaches and to the players.
 
Pete Rose's situation is a travesty.



I agree you can't really equate the two situations. Pete never bet against his team. It's impossible for one player in baseball (that isn't a pitcher or maybe a catcher) to fix a game. If they did, they could only contribute to a loss not guarantee a win. He's being punished for having faith in his teammates. That's ridiculous. What the Astros did is much worse.
First it was I didn't bet on baseball. That was a lie.
Then it was I never bet on games involving my team. That was a lie
Then it was I only bet as a manager, not as a player. That was proven a lie once the Bertolini notebook was released.
Then it evolved into I never bet against my team. Even if all he did was bet on his team, he most certainly could fix games. He could change his rotation and players so as to maximize his chances of the games he bet on. Every baseball player knows that there is one rule you just don't break. For baseball, it's well known. And Pete Rose broke it.
 
From what I understand, MLB is not the Baseball Hall of Fame. Rose's ban does not apply to the HOF. Is this wrong?
 
First it was I didn't bet on baseball. That was a lie.
Then it was I never bet on games involving my team. That was a lie
Then it was I only bet as a manager, not as a player. That was proven a lie once the Bertolini notebook was released.
Then it evolved into I never bet against my team. Even if all he did was bet on his team, he most certainly could fix games. He could change his rotation and players so as to maximize his chances of the games he bet on. Every baseball player knows that there is one rule you just don't break. For baseball, it's well known. And Pete Rose broke it.

Yes, it's a rule, but I think it ridiculous that a player can't bet on their own team in baseball. We're not talking about a sport where one player can single handedly dictate the outcome. As far as him betting on his team as a manager, I agree it would be possible for a manager to throw a game. A manager guaranteeing a win is a very different story. It's every manager's job to establish a rotation that gives them the best chance to win, but it's impossible for them to guarantee it. If they could truly control the game based on the lineup, they would never lose. In the end, they're coaching humans that can be very unpredictable. I still say what Pete Rose did is benign compared to what the Astros did & his punishment is much worse.
 
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