Ready For a New MLB Commissioner

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Yes, it's a rule, but I think it ridiculous that a player can't bet on their own team in baseball. We're not talking about a sport where one player can single handedly dictate the outcome. As far as him betting on his team as a manager, I agree it would be possible for a manager to throw a game. A manager guaranteeing a win is a very different story. It's every manager's job to establish a rotation that gives them the best chance to win, but it's impossible for them to guarantee it. If they could truly control the game based on the lineup, they would never lose. In the end, they're coaching humans that can be very unpredictable. I still say what Pete Rose did is benign compared to what the Astros did & his punishment is much worse.

You don't have to singlehandedly dictate the outcome. Not even casinos do that. And in fact if they did, they'd be in deep do do. A player knows he has a bet on Saturday's game. After a long plane flight on thursday, he asks out of the lineup friday so as to be nice and fresh on Saturday. Now, the odds that the sportsbooks set for two games are now off. So everyone that bets that team's Friday game based upon the odds at the time just got hosed. It's for the same reason that point shaving gets a player banned from basketball. The point shaver didn't singlehandedly dictate the outcome. In fact, most of the time the way it works, his team still wins. Yet, everyone that bet for that team to beat the spread is hosed because of deliberate manipulation.

 

[MillauFr]

I wonder how many other teams are employing similar methods. You know it isn't just the Astros. They are probably the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Disneypro1]

The best hitter ever has a lifetime ban. And these guys get nothing from what happened with the Astros. BS. Pete Must get reinstated now. He was the best. End of story.

 

[starvenger]

The best hitter ever has a lifetime ban. And these guys get nothing from what happened with the Astros. BS. Pete Must get reinstated now. He was the best. End of story.

When did Ichiro get banned?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Pete Rose's induction into the Hall of Fame can be considered after his death. Until then, he needs to abide by the lifetime ban...to which he agreed.

This is one of the problems with professional athletes. The rules seemingly never apply to them, only to everyone else. Their situation is, of course, unique.

To me, there's no reason to bother, after his death. The person it would mean the most to will be gone.

You don't have to singlehandedly dictate the outcome. Not even casinos do that. And in fact if they did, they'd be in deep do do. A player knows he has a bet on Saturday's game. After a long plane flight on thursday, he asks out of the lineup friday so as to be nice and fresh on Saturday. Now, the odds that the sportsbooks set for two games are now off. So everyone that bets that team's Friday game based upon the odds at the time just got hosed. It's for the same reason that point shaving gets a player banned from basketball. The point shaver didn't singlehandedly dictate the outcome. In fact, most of the time the way it works, his team still wins. Yet, everyone that bet for that team to beat the spread is hosed because of deliberate manipulation.

I see point shaving as being different from what Pete Rose did. I'd feel differently, if he was betting against his team. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Kennywood]

To me, there's no reason to bother, after his death. The person it would mean the most to will be gone.

That's sort of the point of the punishment. And Rose agreed to the lifetime ban. He had to know that IF he were ever inducted, he'd not be alive to see it.

And there have been 110 people that were posthumously inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame, so it's hardly unprecedented.

https://baseballhall.org/discover-m...er-facts/hall-of-famers-inducted-posthumously

 

[starvenger]

One last year in fact - the great Roy Halladay.

Rose would obviously be a veteran's committee decision.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

That's sort of the point of the punishment. And Rose agreed to the lifetime ban. He had to know that IF he were ever inducted, he'd not be alive to see it.

And there have been 110 people that were posthumously inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame, so it's hardly unprecedented.

https://baseballhall.org/discover-m...er-facts/hall-of-famers-inducted-posthumously

I agree that it's definitely not unprecedented. I just don't see the point for someone in Rose's position.

 

[Dead2009]

It wasn't a punishment for having faith in his teammates. It was a clear cut violation of the rules with a clear cut punishment.

With the Astros, I think it's less clear what the punishment should be, but it seems pretty obvious that they got off light. I think that, unofficially, Cora and Beltran and Hinch won't be getting any MLB jobs again, but there needed to be a tougher stance. Again, banning the Astros and Red Sox from the playoffs (but not telling them until September) would seem to be a just punishment.

Yeah it's not college sports where schools can be flat out told they can't compete in the post season even if they're the best team in the entire league.

 

[Dead2009]

I'm aghast at how this was handled. This was systematic cheating in at least two organizations. The penalties they've put in place so far are pitiful and will not prevent similar cheating in the future. They should force the owners to sell the teams and ban every manager, coach, and player on each team. I know that is an extreme response but I'm of the opinion that you set a "death penalty" example for such things or you're welcoming similar cheating. Maybe there's a strict but less extreme penalty but it needs to hit top to bottom - from the owner down to the manager and coaches and to the players.

1. You can't force an owner to sell off their team. No commissioner has that kind of power and the only way a sale could be approved anyway is by the other 29 owners, so guess what...even if this was in the slightest bit of conversation....the other owners have that say so.

2. You can't ban every single employee that's on the team, especially the ones that weren't there when this happened. The player's union would step in and squash that right off the bat.

Lastly, I laughed at the notion that the Dodgers should be the champions because of this....in the Red Sox series alone they only managed to score 5 or more runs once and that still ended up being a loss. But then again they couldn't stop the Nationals in this past post season either so what's the excuse there?

 

[starvenger]

1. You can't force an owner to sell off their team. No commissioner has that kind of power and the only way a sale could be approved anyway is by the other 29 owners, so guess what...even if this was in the slightest bit of conversation....the other owners have that say so.

See: Sterling, Donald.

2. You can't ban every single employee that's on the team, especially the ones that weren't there when this happened. The player's union would step in and squash that right off the bat.

Pretty much, unless the union declared the Astros players persona non grata, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Dead2009]

See: Sterling, Donald.

In that instance, the owner of the Clippers was banned from the league due to his racist remarks which impacted the league and team sponsors. The other owners also had to vote to approve said move, so no, a commissioner still can not take a team away from their owner unless the other team owners are in the majority.

 

[Disneypro1]

When did Ichiro get banned?

Half of his hits was from a subpar league. I’m not saying he isn’t great. But he can’t touch the hitting talent Pete had. ️️

 

[Disneypro1]

I don’t care what Pete did. You got guys on steroids in the Hall. He deserves to go in for what he did on the field. It’s not a Hall of Fame when the best isn’t in it. Imagine Going to the NBA hall of fame and they didn’t let Jordan in it. It would be an insignificant award as you aren’t among the best. When the beat isnt in it.
Even Mike Schmidt said something to that affect. It’s kinda a joke award without Pete a member.

 

[starvenger]

In that instance, the owner of the Clippers was banned from the league due to his racist remarks which impacted the league and team sponsors. The other owners also had to vote to approve said move, so no, a commissioner still can not take a team away from their owner unless the other team owners are in the majority.

Right. The commissioner works in the best interests of the owners, but he cannot unilaterally remove an owner from the league. But he can start the movement towards said removal. Sterling is an example of that, and I think Marge Schott as well.

Half of his hits was from a subpar league. I’m not saying he isn’t great. But he can’t touch the hitting talent Pete had.

To be honest, the fact that he went from a "subpar league" (probably a little above Quad A if we're being honest) and continued hitting at a very high level says to me that he could touch, if not surpass Rose's hitting talent.

Debate for another day I think, and we could probably combine that with Jordan/LeBron, and whether Gretzky or Ovechkin will be the greatest hockey goal scorer of all time.

I don’t care what Pete did. You got guys on steroids in the Hall. He deserves to go in for what he did on the field. It’s not a Hall of Fame when the best isn’t in it. Imagine Going to the NBA hall of fame and they didn’t let Jordan in it. It would be an insignificant award as you aren’t among the best. When the beat isnt in it.

The only current member of the hall with any real suspicions of steroid use is Jeff Bagwell, and he wasn't even named in the Mitchell report. But likely Clemens and Bonds will get in.

There will be a point in time when Rose gets in. Probably after he's passed on.

 

[Malyficent]

See: Sterling, Donald.

Also: McCourt, Frank

 

[AP1209]

I'm biased because I'm and Astros fan but baseball is notorious for cheating going all the way back to 1919. Pine tar, steroids, doctoring the ball, gambling, sign stealing I could go on and on. What the Astros did was wrong but we all know they were not the only team doing it. The union negotiated immunity for the players because MLB didn't have enough proof without the players testifying. It is what it is. The best way to get back at the Astros is the beat them on the field and to stop crying about it.

 

[EveDallas]

I'm biased because I'm and Astros fan but baseball is notorious for cheating going all the way back to 1919. Pine tar, steroids, doctoring the ball, gambling, sign stealing I could go on and on. What the Astros did was wrong but we all know they were not the only team doing it. The union negotiated immunity for the players because MLB didn't have enough proof without the players testifying. It is what it is. The best way to get back at the Astros is the beat them on the field and to stop crying about it.

Ah, the old "everyone cheats so it wasn't that bad" defense.

 

[starvenger]

I'm biased because I'm and Astros fan but baseball is notorious for cheating going all the way back to 1919. Pine tar, steroids, doctoring the ball, gambling, sign stealing I could go on and on. What the Astros did was wrong but we all know they were not the only team doing it. The union negotiated immunity for the players because MLB didn't have enough proof without the players testifying. It is what it is. The best way to get back at the Astros is the beat them on the field and to stop crying about it.

We know the Red Sox were doing something similar, and I don't even think they've handed out punishment there yet, and it might be worse. The Yankees were warned/sent a sternly worded letter about electronic sign stealing at the same time as the Sox. But only the Sox and Astros are caught up in this, so while you are not wrong, we can't say for sure what, if anything, other teams were doing to steal signs electronically.

I don't agree with granting player immunity, but given that we now know that the Astros management never communicated the memo/warning/sternly worded letter to the players. The MLBPA is incompetent, but not so bad that they'd lose grievances over suspensions.

The last statement is more than a bit partisan, but it's also what I'd say if it were my team getting all this heat.

 

[skyblue17]

How did this thread become about Pete Rose?! Hah. I am one who thinks that people make their own bed. If Rose wanted respect and dignity from his sport, he should have considered what his actions were going to do that possibility while he was doing it. No one is perfect, but he knew what he was doing.

As for the Astros not being the only ones doing it, they are the only ones SO FAR that have been investigated this thoroughly and have had such findings. A lot of MLB guys are really pissed at the Astros players, who in turn are acting like victims as if being cheaters makes them a protected class. It's very bizarre. I think the whole tone of the entire thing would be completely different if just one Astros player had some accountability and genuine remorse. Since they don't, I take it to mean they are actually fine with it, and that makes me think a lot less of them.