Reflections: A Disney Lakeside Resort

[PortMickey]

Permits are cheap. Could be for the stables or some infrastructure. If Rivera DVC really has an abundance of inventory to sell, why would they spend all that money on a resort to add more inventory? Especially right now with the limited income. Unless Rivera is selling better then expected.

 

[rteetz]

Permits are cheap. Could be for the stables or some infrastructure. If Rivera DVC really has an abundance of inventory to sell, why would they spend all that money on a resort to add more inventory? Especially right now with the limited income. Unless Rivera is selling better then expected.

Rivera is not selling well.

 

[RivShore]

Rivera is not selling well.

Actually pre-covid it was selling better than the last few DVC resorts.

The Direct Sales thread has some some good info including comparisons to VGF and CCV, showing Riviera was outselling them over the first 12 months of sales.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/direct-dvc-sales-statistics.3806398/page-8

 

[CastAStone]

Actually pre-covid it was selling better than the last few DVC resorts.

The Direct Sales thread has some some good info including comparisons to VGF and CCV, showing Riviera was outselling them over the first 12 months of sales.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/direct-dvc-sales-statistics.3806398/page-8

I agree. The rap on Riviera is a little overplayed here by people who don’t like the resale restrictions and desperately want it to be selling poorly, but as best as I can figure it’s selling okay. Not great, not like Poly or BLT, but basically fine. Disney is probably happier with Riviera sales than they were with say Saratoga Springs or Animal Kingdom Villas.

The other thing with Riviera is that it’s a large resort. They are coming off selling 3 straight smaller resorts. This one is around the same size as AKV. It will not sell out in a few years like VGF and Poly and CCV did, but that doesn’t mean it’s a failed project like Aulani or Vero Beach have been.

 

[CastAStone]

I agree. The rap on Riviera is a little overplayed here by people who don’t like the resale restrictions and desperately want it to be selling poorly, but as best as I can figure it’s selling okay. Not great, not like Poly or BLT, but basically fine. Disney is probably happier with Riviera sales than they were with say Saratoga Springs or Animal Kingdom Villas.

The other thing with Riviera is that it’s a large resort. They are coming off selling 3 straight smaller resorts. This one is around the same size as AKV. It will not sell out in a few years like VGF and Poly and CCV did, but that doesn’t mean it’s a failed project like Aulani or Vero Beach have been.

That said though if you combine say a 15% miss vs expectations with basically a lost year of DVC sales (DVC sales have been at about 65% of normal the last 2 months but if you dig into the details it’s mostly existing members adding on, often at sold out resorts), and 2022 starts to look far too soon for the next WDW DVC, especially with Disneyland DVC looming. DVD won’t want to be selling four projects at once again (Riviera Aulani Reflections and Disneyland). I know Reflectoons is dead but I’d also not expect to see another WDW DVC until Riviera is 80% sold or more.

 

[mamaofsix]

I know many firmly assert that Reflections has been cancelled for good, but . . . given that it's still being named as a future resort in recent DVC sales documents - it keeps that spark of hope alive for me!

https://dvcfan.com/2020/09/30/verbi...arding-future-of-riviera-resale-restrictions/

 

[rteetz]

I know many firmly assert that Reflections has been cancelled for good, but . . . given that it's still being named as a future resort in recent DVC sales documents - it keeps that spark of hope alive for me!

https://dvcfan.com/2020/09/30/verbi...arding-future-of-riviera-resale-restrictions/

Which is strange considering Disney removed it from parks blog material.

 

[CastAStone]

I know many firmly assert that Reflections has been cancelled for good, but . . . given that it's still being named as a future resort in recent DVC sales documents - it keeps that spark of hope alive for me!

https://dvcfan.com/2020/09/30/verbi...arding-future-of-riviera-resale-restrictions/

I have the opposite reaction - the fact that Reflections is cancelled is one of the things that makes me think the way this change is worded was a clerical error from a poorly-informed, working-from-home, overworked-and-underpaid clerk. IMO what happened was that they were trying to change the document to no longer discuss Riviera as a future resort, but instead as a current resort, and they accidentally lumped it in with the other resorts instead of setting it up as a separate category.

 

[StormyCA]

Meh, I just think Disney is hedging its bets regarding interested potential owners by mentioning Reflections.

Like Yogi Berra said "It ain't over til it's over" and I think that although Reflections may have been shelved for the time being Disney will keep their options open for somewhere down the line. Until they use that property for something else (like more campsites) it'll always be a possibility.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Meh, I just think Disney is hedging its bets regarding interested potential owners by mentioning Reflections.

Like Yogi Berra said "It ain't over til it's over" and I think that although Reflections may have been shelved for the time being Disney will keep their options open for somewhere down the line. Until they use that property for something else (like more campsites) it'll always be a possibility.

Oh lord. Campsites with a water view will cost more than a night at a moderate!(Id still book one!)

 

[Robert O.]

I would love to stay there. Hope they don’t cancel the project.

 

[CastAStone]

Meh, I just think Disney is hedging its bets regarding interested potential owners by mentioning Reflections.

Like Yogi Berra said "It ain't over til it's over" and I think that although Reflections may have been shelved for the time being Disney will keep their options open for somewhere down the line. Until they use that property for something else (like more campsites) it'll always be a possibility.

But it is over. Multiple insiders on both this board and WDWMagic have confirmed that the project has been cancelled, not shelved. They’ve re-seeded the land and removed all the work they’d done. And they’ve removed every trace of it from disneyworld.com

Someday they will build something there. Perhaps it will be rooms with a lazy river. Theres just not enough buildable land in the area to leave it to sit forever, and it’s too small to do much else with. But it won’t be the building or the project they announced at D23.

 

[Phicinfan]

But it is over. Multiple insiders on both this board and WDWMagic have confirmed that the project has been cancelled, not shelved. They’ve re-seeded the land and removed all the work they’d done. And they’ve removed every trace of it from disneyworld.com

Someday they will build something there. Perhaps it will be rooms with a lazy river. Theres just not enough buildable land in the area to leave it to sit forever, and it’s too small to do much else with. But it won’t be the building or the project they announced at D23.

Not that I don't agree, but plans change. What was starting today(theater) will be dead tomorrow. There are times the opposite happens as well. I don' disagree that many very reliable insiders say it is dead. What they or we may not know is the current concept is dead, and something else may come later.

Disney is in flux now, due to the huge gaping wound this virus has been. With all the redo on plans for Epcot and other things cancelled, who knows if they have re-prioritized what they can and will spend?

I would bet dollars to donuts, that if anything is ever built where Reflections was going, it will be 5 or more years out. Until covid is done, and folks start taking vacations and traveling more free, building more resort space makes no sense.

 

[StormyCA]

Oh lord. Campsites with a water view will cost more than a night at a moderate!(Id still book one!)

Totally agree. I don't know if I'd book one though, we're rope drop to closing people and honestly don't spend all that much time lounging around the campsite. No point in spending the money for a water view just to wave it good morning and good night.

If they want to go with DVC, they could (as has been suggested here before) make it a 'super premium' DVC area.

 

[StormyCA]

But it is over. Multiple insiders on both this board and WDWMagic have confirmed that the project has been cancelled, not shelved. They’ve re-seeded the land and removed all the work they’d done. And they’ve removed every trace of it from disneyworld.com

Someday they will build something there. Perhaps it will be rooms with a lazy river. Theres just not enough buildable land in the area to leave it to sit forever, and it’s too small to do much else with. But it won’t be the building or the project they announced at D23.

Reflections as it was designed may be dead, but the idea of a DVC in that area isn't. I'd bet my Mickey ears it's not. The 'ground work' (water/environmental studies, some utility work, blueprints) has already been done. And it takes very little to undo what they've done and re-clear the land. When 'good times come again' I think we'll see the idea raise it's ugly head.

My caveat is, of course, how the DVC market goes. If Riviera doesn't sell out, if people dump their contracts and/or there's a general sales slump then of course they won't build at the Fort.

 

[CastAStone]

Reflections as it was designed may be dead, but the idea of a DVC in that area isn't. I'd bet my Mickey ears it's not. The 'ground work' (water/environmental studies, some utility work, blueprints) has already been done. And it takes very little to undo what they've done and re-clear the land. When 'good times come again' I think we'll see the idea raise it's ugly head.

My caveat is, of course, how the DVC market goes. If Riviera doesn't sell out, if people dump their contracts and/or there's a general sales slump then of course they won't build at the Fort.

I agree.

However, I would be shocked if they build another DVC-Hotel combo though while anyone in a leadership position now remains at the company - the sheer quantity of DVC-Hotel combos caused a plethora of issues during this whole shutdown/reopening. And while this is a 1 in 100 year event (which is still not that rare), other things happen like terror attacks and hurricanes and who knows what that will cause them to regret having these combo properties. So I think instead of the combo property they had planned, when they do build, it will be either DVC or a hotel.

I wouldn't be surprised actually to see them pivot DVC to full conversions of existing hotels instead of building new properties. We'll see.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Reflections as it was designed may be dead, but the idea of a DVC in that area isn't. I'd bet my Mickey ears it's not. The 'ground work' (water/environmental studies, some utility work, blueprints) has already been done. And it takes very little to undo what they've done and re-clear the land. When 'good times come again' I think we'll see the idea raise it's ugly head.

My caveat is, of course, how the DVC market goes. If Riviera doesn't sell out, if people dump their contracts and/or there's a general sales slump then of course they won't build at the Fort.

Yeah there is 100% guarantee there will be another WDW based DVC resort at sometime in the future. When is the question. It may take a decade for the economy to be bubbling enough to justify it again, but the time will definitely come. I agree a pre-prepped piece of land just waiting for a resort to be built on it would be very appealing to me if I was Disney.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Reflections as it was designed may be dead, but the idea of a DVC in that area isn't. I'd bet my Mickey ears it's not. The 'ground work' (water/environmental studies, some utility work, blueprints) has already been done. And it takes very little to undo what they've done and re-clear the land. When 'good times come again' I think we'll see the idea raise it's ugly head.

My caveat is, of course, how the DVC market goes. If Riviera doesn't sell out, if people dump their contracts and/or there's a general sales slump then of course they won't build at the Fort.

IF they get a deal with CA on ever opening again the best potential property to sell out is gonna be the Disneyland Hotel DVC Tower. Demand is incredibly high for GCV during normal times, and it sold fast- imho it’s the one that will turn profit the fastest so I think it’s the next DVC to start construction. The vacant lot at WDW could become a home to sunning gators for some time.

 

[gottalovepluto]

But it is over. Multiple insiders on both this board and WDWMagic have confirmed that the project has been cancelled, not shelved. They’ve re-seeded the land and removed all the work they’d done. And they’ve removed every trace of it from disneyworld.com

Someday they will build something there. Perhaps it will be rooms with a lazy river. Theres just not enough buildable land in the area to leave it to sit forever, and it’s too small to do much else with. But it won’t be the building or the project they announced at D23.

Step off my balcony into the water like I’m in the Maldives? (Into a man-made body of water that I can clearly see has no gators) TWIST MY ARM

ETA: Realizing I can’t afford to stay there at WDW. Even in my daydreams

 

[KenKantner]

It seems the Reflections development is fenced off and has been left as-is from what I have seen from video within the last week. Would anyone know if they will restart the project when the appropriate time is among the DVC budget?