Should DVC eliminate walking?

mort1331

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Disney has heard you all and has answered. Actually they answered with Poly. They are called Fixed Weeks. It s the fair solution. All others are the same and everyone is aable to participate . If you do or not is up to you.
 
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10CJ

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 10, 2015
I am not a fan that makes changing a reservation more complicated or charges a fee.

I am not sure how many times I changed our ressie for the Galaxy’s Edge opening. We were not planning to go until we heard the dates. I change resorts at least once, maybe twice. Our start and end dates also fluctuated a bit as we got it figured out.
 

stuartsong

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Every owners points at each home resort are equal and have the same opportunity to book whatever dates. The people who complain about not having availability have the same opportunity as other owners to book the same dates. If you missed out, then you did not put the same effort as the other owner. That's on you, no the rules of the DVC. Don't try to change the rules to suit your needs.
 
  • KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    Going back to the original booking method would eliminate walking, and is the most fair way to book.
    Some don’t like day by day booking, but like walking, there is no requirement to do it. The option is there if you want a hard reservation bad enough, and iis 100% fair for everyone.
    I know a few were very endeared to that but day by day booking was never what was suppose to be done either. Because owners were doing it was the reason for the change happened. Owners were supposed to book their trip backwards from their date of check out not a day at a time. It was a mess and people were even booking SSR day by day from the fear of day by day booking and then needing those days combined. Holes in reservations with people ending up forced into o move a couple of times because on one day they had been slower than others to book the concierge room for that day. At least now if there are holes in a reservation it’s because an owner has chosen to take a chance at getting a missing night vs it based on the speed of the internet or their prowess at booking.

    Both boil down to the same thing - there are a few small categories that are popular and do not have enough quantity on them for the demand. That means there’s always going to be some owners who are disappointed.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    But... love or hate the old system, it eliminates walking and is 100% fair.
    Again, there was no need to book day by day if you didn’t think it necessary, just as there is no need to walk with today’s system.
    Not sure what havoc it raised, but with on line booking I don’t see that as a show stopper.
    I agree that it created havoc. Fair is also a little questionable since if someone followed the written rules of booking they were out of luck because of the day by day bookings. It also was a work around of the booking system too.

    I'm curious when it was that you sold your points? Did you own for much time after the implementation of the new booking rules to have a good comparison between the two? Neither are 100% perfect but for me the current one creates much less stress and higher satisfaction. I had to change what I was booking more under the old system because of holes in reservation. Now I know on day 1 if I have all my days or not. It might be more of an issue for us west coast owners too - getting up at 5 am once vs 5 am for a week or whatever the length of stay? I'll take 1 morning.
     

    bobbiwoz

    I'm happy to dance with you!
    Joined
    Aug 26, 2003
    I do think walking should be eliminated, and I have told MS this many times. Walkers effectively circumvent the 11 month booking idea by holding a room even 12 months out or more from what they want.
     

    Philsfan77

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2019
    In reading this...a few things stand out...it's clear some people don't truly understand how walking works.

    Suggestions to limit changing reservations to 3 times or 5 times, will not stop walking...it might shorten the walk, but one could still in theory move their reservation roughly 3 weeks (3 changes) and over a month (5 changes). The current system also does not favor someone with more points as someone else stated. Yes it is true, someone could book 7 days, and the person with only enough points to book 3 days, can only book those 3 days, but this doesn't impact them getting in for their reservation or walking it forward. Hypothetically, lets say the person who books for 3 days, has room 3331. That room is blocked from booking for anyone else during their reservation, no one can take their room to start a booking or extend a booking for any of the days that they own, thus as long as they modify and move their reservation forward by their 3rd day, they can continue to walk. The only impact for someone with a shorter reservation, that can come up and does come up at times, is if a room gets pulled from circulation during the 11 month booking window (this actually happened if any of the CCV owners were paying attention on December 10th at CCV). The 10th was gone from booking on the 9th and the 9th was still available, and the 11th was still available.

    Personally, I've yet to hear a good reason for why people don't like walking or think it's "unfair". The main reason everyone states is that it blocks someone else from booking dates they actually want (walkers are selfish/circumventing 11 month booking window being the argument)...in theory I get this, but at the same time, the walkers pass by those dates that someone actually wanted, and if you follow behind, you will still get your dates (this is assuming as many people are actually walking as some seem to think). Personally I think it's overstated about people walking, and it's really quite possible (in fact extremely possible) that people just want those same actual dates (Holidays, Marathon Weeks, first 2 weeks of December).

    The logical fix DVC will try to make if people keep getting their panties in a bunch about something like this and complaining, is to charge fees like other timeshares do for changes. Personally, I don't want DVC to be like other timeshares...it's uniqueness, and flexibility and user friendly attributes are part of what helps it maintain value. The further we go down the rabbit hole of being like every other timeshare, the value will diminish IMO.
     
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    Airb330

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2006
    A bit off topic, but to touch on the time the booking window opens, some seem to think the east coast has an advantage at 8AM. I would argue it is actually a disadvantage. I, like probably most east coasters, am actually in the middle of my morning commute already at 8AM. Not so easy to book a room online when you are driving. I would actually much prefer to book at 6AM when I am getting up anyway. Luckily, I take the bus to work so I can easily book from my phone and it doesn't really affect me 🙂. Of course, 6AM on the east would mean 3AM in the west, so that's not helpful to anyone.....or maybe it is and I'll have less west coast competition this way while they are sleeping 🤔
    That's true. 8AM typically is when I leave for the train and my husband is already driving. Luckily I have found the mobile website (in iOS safari) to be very good anymore. Otherwise, yeah, I sit at home at 8AM and go into work late. However, I's still rather do that then be up at 5AM! FP+ are 4AM out there :(
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    I know a few were very endeared to that but day by day booking was never what was suppose to be done either. Because owners were doing it was the reason for the change happened. Owners were supposed to book their trip backwards from their date of check out not a day at a time. It was a mess and people were even booking SSR day by day from the fear of day by day booking and then needing those days combined. Holes in reservations with people ending up forced into o move a couple of times because on one day they had been slower than others to book the concierge room for that day. At least now if there are holes in a reservation it’s because an owner has chosen to take a chance at getting a missing night vs it based on the speed of the internet or their prowess at booking.

    Both boil down to the same thing - there are a few small categories that are popular and do not have enough quantity on them for the demand. That means there’s always going to be some owners who are disappointed.
    I agree that it created havoc. Fair is also a little questionable since if someone followed the written rules of booking they were out of luck because of the day by day bookings. It also was a work around of the booking system too.

    I'm curious when it was that you sold your points? Did you own for much time after the implementation of the new booking rules to have a good comparison between the two? Neither are 100% perfect but for me the current one creates much less stress and higher satisfaction. I had to change what I was booking more under the old system because of holes in reservation. Now I know on day 1 if I have all my days or not. It might be more of an issue for us west coast owners too - getting up at 5 am once vs 5 am for a week or whatever the length of stay? I'll take 1 morning.
    I agree day by day was not the intended way of booking, and many abused it. That said, walking is also not the intended method of booking.
    BUT... it was fair because everyone had the exact same chance to get that room.
    I also think a lot of the havoc would be relieved with on line booking.
    I don’t understand these “holes” you are referring to. If there was a hole it was the Member’s fault, not the systems fault. Plus if those dates were not open due to late booking under the old system, than they wouldn’t be available with the current system either.

    Yes, I booked under both systems, but longer under the old system. I was angry when they switched. Of course now it’s irrelevant to me.
    I just bring it up to possibly enlighten the newer folks here, and point out that there was once a booking system where walking was non existent.
     

    minthorne

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2008
    That is not correct.
    You can book 2 nights 11 months out just like the other person. You now have that room BLOCKED from being booked on new years eve, because day 1 of the window (for that specific room) is not available. You just have to call more often.
    Lets say you want 12/30 and 12/31.
    You can book that at 1/30 (as can I)
    you decide to walk it starting 1/1. So Do I. You have enough points to book a week. I have enough points to book 2 nights. We can both walk it with the same efficacy, I just have to modify my reservation every day, where you can do it as little as every 6 days. You do not have an advantage because you have more points, it is just less effort for you.
    If you book at 1/30 for 12/30 and 12/31 but I book at 1/24 for 12/25 - 12/31 because I have more points and can book longer I have 12/31 secured 6 days before you do. But enough of this - it is moot.
     

    Disney Dad ADL

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 17, 2015
    If you book at 1/30 for 12/30 and 12/31 but I book at 1/24 for 12/25 - 12/31 because I have more points and can book longer I have 12/31 secured 6 days before you do. But enough of this - it is moot.
    As long as you have the last available booking date at the 11 month window, no one can bypass you and grab the future dates away from you because they MUST have the day that you already own. It doesn't matter how far you extend from the last date for the 11 month window (it matters if you are walking 7 months). The only exception is if DVC takes rooms out of inventory for maintenance or something like that.

    Imagine a hotel has 3 rooms, "O" denotes an open date and "X" denotes a taken date. The first day of the column represents the 11 month booking window, then the rest is the +7.

    A |X|X|O|O|O|O|O|O|
    B |X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|
    C |X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|

    Note here person A has only 2 days, and his goal is to walk until he secures the last 2 days of the week. Note that he is guaranteed to get his dates here. Another person cannot sneak by him to grab his dates because they need that first day in order to do that. As long as person A keeps walking every day, he will get what he wants.

    (Edit: it also doesn't matter how many rooms there are or how many people there are, the end result will be the same)
    Edit #2: corrected an error
     

    minthorne

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2008
    As long as you have the last available booking date at the 11 month window, no one can bypass you and grab the future dates away from you because they MUST have the day that you already own. It doesn't matter how far you extend from the last date for the 11 month window (it matters if you are walking 7 months). The only exception is if DVC takes rooms out of inventory for maintenance or something like that.

    Imagine a hotel has 3 rooms, "O" denotes an open date and "X" denotes a taken date. The first day of the column represents the 11 month booking window, then the rest is the +7.

    A |X|X|O|O|O|O|O|O|
    B |X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|
    C |X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|

    Note here person A has only 2 days, and his goal is to walk until he secures the last 2 days of the week. Note that he is guaranteed to get his dates here. Another person cannot sneak by him to grab his dates because they need that first day in order to do that. As long as person A keeps walking every day, he will get what he wants.

    (Edit: it also doesn't matter how many rooms there are or how many people there are, the end result will be the same)
    Walk away.
     

    minthorne

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2008
    Fair enough, please explain how person A will be unsuccessful in getting his dates, (unless DVC pulls inventory out of the system from under him, which granted is the one scenario where person A loses)
    Not interested - I already posted this - you disagree. Personally I'd be happy to see walking eliminated. I think you feel otherwise.
     

    Disney Dad ADL

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 17, 2015
    Not interested - I already posted this - you disagree. Personally I'd be happy to see walking eliminated. I think you feel otherwise.
    I don't care that much honestly about whether they ban walking as long as the end result is not too disruptive, and as long as people are making decisions based on information that is accurate. And if I'm wrong about this, I would like to know too. I would be prefer to be corrected rather than to continue to believe something that is wrong.
     
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    Orsino

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2006
    Personally, I've yet to hear a good reason for why people don't like walking or think it's "unfair".
    It's pretty simple I thought. Walking is to secure something and deny it from someone else (otherwise, why do people do it?). I disagree with the notion that "putting effort into walking" justifies this advantage, or that others should simply walk too. The 11 month window exists. It is, in essence a 'rule.' Breaking rules is usually considered 'bad' or 'unfair.'

    A while back there was a bit of a brouhaha in the Disboards about certain practices to circumvent Disney rules. Now we have a sticky on the Theme Park board that specifically states that discussion of circumventing Disney rules is not allowed. Walking predates that brouhaha so I guess it got grandfathered in or something; but in my opinion walking circumvents a Disney rule.
     

    gillep

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2009
    I don't care that much honestly about whether they ban walking as long as the end result is not too disruptive, and as long as people are making decisions based on information that is accurate. And if I'm wrong about this, I would like to know too. I would be prefer to be corrected rather than to continue to believe something that is wrong.
    You are the one who is correct. You only need enough points to book two nights at 11 months in order to walk. Having extra points to secure more nights does not give you an an advantage in securing the room, having more nights booked just means that you have to move your reservation less frequently.

    This is one of the many reasons why I think a lot of the 'walking is an issue' hoopla is overblown, so many people who complain about it do not actually understand the mechanics of walking, and many attribute booking issues to walking when it is clear that walking wasn't the actual issue encountered. There was a thread a couple weeks ago that clearly was not walking, and just not being fast enough to secure an in-demand room, and yet MANY people in the thread blamed walking...
     

    Philsfan77

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2019
    If you book at 1/30 for 12/30 and 12/31 but I book at 1/24 for 12/25 - 12/31 because I have more points and can book longer I have 12/31 secured 6 days before you do. But enough of this - it is moot.
    Your scenario isn't necessarily relevant to walking, but is more a general booking issue. In any scenario, even if you eliminate walking, a person who wants to book a trip for a week will have dates covered that someone who wants 2 days might want to get. You actually provide a scenario that is one of the perfect reasons someone would/should walk a reservation to make the system fair. The person who wants those 2 days, has zero chance of getting it if they wait until 1/30 to book for a 12/30 reservation. However, to give themselves a chance of maybe securing the date their family needs for that reservation, they could start walking it a few weeks in advance, and now they have the same shot at those days as anyone else.

    Regardless, in your scenario, even if they eliminate walking...the person who waits until 1/30 to book 12/30 will never ever have the opportunity to book that 2-3 day trip for their family at that time of year in a studio (probably ever in their 50 year contract), because anyone with a week, 6 day, 5 day, 4 day or 3 day reservation also going to the New Year will have already taken up all of that inventory. The only solution in your scenario to give the person seeking a 2 day reservation at that time of year is for them to actually walk it...or for DVC to revert to day by day booking windows, where you can only book 1 day at a time and hope they hit the lottery and get both days back to back...which seems like an awful idea.

    Your scenario is basically, what disney in general faces for things like fast passes and ADR's. If I have a short 1-2-3 day trip, I'm not going to have a chance to get certain dining reservations, because anyone with dates ahead of me already has those reservations secured because of the +10 window for ADR's. Same goes for fast passes like FOP, SDD and 7DMT. People will short trips, are basically shut out from those rides as they are usually gone for 2-3 days after the booking window opens.
     

    Philsfan77

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2019
    It's pretty simple I thought. Walking is to secure something and deny it from someone else (otherwise, why do people do it?). I disagree with the notion that "putting effort into walking" justifies this advantage, or that others should simply walk too. The 11 month window exists. It is, in essence a 'rule.' Breaking rules is usually considered 'bad' or 'unfair.'

    A while back there was a bit of a brouhaha in the Disboards about certain practices to circumvent Disney rules. Now we have a sticky on the Theme Park board that specifically states that discussion of circumventing Disney rules is not allowed. Walking predates that brouhaha so I guess it got grandfathered in or something; but in my opinion walking circumvents a Disney rule.
    I know...walkers are selfish...walking is unfair.

    None of these are directly related to preventing you from doing the same thing or preventing you from getting a room if you choose to. I get your point that maybe you don't want to walk to, but it is what it is...that's the system in place right now...and we are 8 pages in and i've yet to see one suggestion that sounds even remotely close to being worthwhile or better than the current system.

    I'm all for the system being changed, and walking being stopped, but just give me something I can get behind.
     

    minthorne

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2008
    Your scenario isn't necessarily relevant to walking, but is more a general booking issue. In any scenario, even if you eliminate walking, a person who wants to book a trip for a week will have dates covered that someone who wants 2 days might want to get. You actually provide a scenario that is one of the perfect reasons someone would/should walk a reservation to make the system fair. The person who wants those 2 days, has zero chance of getting it if they wait until 1/30 to book for a 12/30 reservation. However, to give themselves a chance of maybe securing the date their family needs for that reservation, they could start walking it a few weeks in advance, and now they have the same shot at those days as anyone else.

    Regardless, in your scenario, even if they eliminate walking...the person who waits until 1/30 to book 12/30 will never ever have the opportunity to book that 2-3 day trip for their family at that time of year in a studio (probably ever in their 50 year contract), because anyone with a week, 6 day, 5 day, 4 day or 3 day reservation also going to the New Year will have already taken up all of that inventory. The only solution in your scenario to give the person seeking a 2 day reservation at that time of year is for them to actually walk it...or for DVC to revert to day by day booking windows, where you can only book 1 day at a time and hope they hit the lottery and get both days back to back...which seems like an awful idea.

    Your scenario is basically, what disney in general faces for things like fast passes and ADR's. If I have a short 1-2-3 day trip, I'm not going to have a chance to get certain dining reservations, because anyone with dates ahead of me already has those reservations secured because of the +10 window for ADR's. Same goes for fast passes like FOP, SDD and 7DMT. People will short trips, are basically shut out from those rides as they are usually gone for 2-3 days after the booking window opens.
    My scenario was to show the person with more points has the advantage in response to this message.

    Right now if you have enough points to book 2 nights then you have the capability to walk just as much as someone with thousands of points. The minimum number of nights needed to walk is 2 and the maximum is 7. The only advantage to being able to book 7 nights is that you don't have to modify as often.
    But I agree and understand that this is not exactly walking.

    But if there is no advantage to walking over not walking and everyone is equal then why do people walk?
     

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