I'd agree with Ziravan here. While I personally don't think DVCMC should allow it and think it's an unintended consequence rather than a planned event, it is the current lay of the land. Since they do allow it, no one should feel bad about using the option. Just like no one should feel bad for them if/when it goes away and a different member playing by any new rules gets in ahead of them. I'd also agree that those that are both better educated on the system AND put forth the effort, will almost always be ahead of those that don't, the early bird gets the worm so to speak. As much as I feel DVCMC should stop it, I know that if they go in trying to do something minor hoping it'll stop or make it better, it'll likely be worse. That's why I feel that have to do something that either stops it 100% of the time or makes it actually hurt in terms of losing points or $$$.
I didn’t pay $10’s of thousands of dollars to do right by you. Nor am I morally obligated to do so.
This is the age old argument of equal outcome vs equal opportunity. You’re entitled as a fellow member to an equal opportunity to the first come, first served system. You’re not entitled to an equal outcome.
The people who learn and work the system will have an advantage. It’s an advantage anybody can take the time and energy to do, but few will.
If you want to unilaterally disarm, that’s on you. If I start unilaterally yielding to others because my knowledge gives me a competitive advantage, then there’s no end to that path for me.
I don’t feel the slightest bit of moral imperative to help you ensure that you get your reservation to my detriment. Nope.
Not only would I walk if needed... Not only would I not feel bad about it... I would in fact be very pleased with myself for expending the energy and effort to maximize my use.
And that’s my point from earlier. No matter how you try to impose your ethics on me regarding this, I’m not buying. It’s a practical impossibility to get compliance on ethics without either buy in or penalty.
Since there is neither here (I don’t subscribe to your ethics here and I don’t face a penalty for not subscribing), following the concept that walking is unethical only ties the hands of those who won’t/don’t walk as a result.
That's was way the system used to work and I got up and was on the phone every single morning to get the reservation I needed. I was able to get exactly what I wanted all the time. Disney look the "early bird" method away from us and in the process created a system where getting the same days in the same units (like AKV Concierge) required "walking" the reservation. I wish that it would go back to the way it was.No offense but walking is not early bird gets the worm. Early bird gets the worm would be those who get right online or phone at the beginning of the 11th month window. The way the system was intended.
Walking my AKV Concierge reservation has been the right choice for me. I'm not "beating the system", I'm working within the system. I get that you don't approve and, frankly, I don't care. I do, however, have to point out that when you question people's morals, ethics and behavior you are skating very close to a personal attack.Walking is just beating the system. Plain and simple. Let’s be real here. Not all loopholes in life are the right choice. A lot are questionable at best. Morals, ethics, bad behavior. Call it what you will but if something just don’t feel quite right there are still some people that won’t do it.
That's was way the system used to work and I got up and was on the phone every single morning to get the reservation I needed. I was able to get exactly what I wanted all the time. Disney look the "early bird" method away from us and in the process created a system where getting the same days in the same units (like AKV Concierge) required "walking" the reservation. I wish that it would go back to the way it was.
Given the current way DVCMC is functioning, we'll have to agree to disagree. They made the rules and they are the ones allowing the changes that result in walking. While I personally feel it should not be allowed, it current is and is actually encouraged by both the sales staff and MS at times. It's very rare one can use ethics and timeshare in the same context and this is not one of those. DVC set it up this way by 2 policies working together. One the change to allowing 7 days at a pop 11 months out and the other, the ability to make changes without it being a cancelation and rebooking. DVCMC can change them and I suspect they will at some point, I personally think they should. But I don't see any way to be upset with someone who uses the options that DVC allows. And while we're assuming this is an unplanned consequence, we don't know that for certain.No offense but walking is not early bird gets the worm. Early bird gets the worm would be those who get right online or phone at the beginning of the 11th month window. The way the system was intended. Walking is just beating the system. Plain and simple. Let’s be real here. Not all loopholes in life are the right choice. A lot are questionable at best. Morals, ethics, bad behavior. Call it what you will but if something just don’t feel quite right there are still some people that won’t do it.
I'd agree on the member side but not on the system side, which has been my point. To tie back in to the VIP question, the same applies, one who puts themselves in a position to be above the other members, usually by an additional $$$ commitment, is doing exactly the same thing. So to amend what I said further, philosophically I don't think it possible to be in favor of walking and not OK with a VIP system though I do think the reverse it true because walking is not a published option, it is a loophole. Now if they listed it on the website and had a Disney Files article on walking/how to walk, I'd be OK with it. I'm not a big believer in the DADT philosophy.
I think DVC needs to take some of this blame. I know in the case of VGF studios, there are certain times of the year owners cant get reservations. It seems particularly hard with regards to this resort. Did they sell too many points? Did they create a points chart that forces most owners to book studios due to the higher points per night with one and two bedrooms? So as an owner, I want to get what I paid for.
The same will be said of CCV in a few years. Not enough studios and Christmas theming is a thing there.This is the reason why I purchased a fixed-week lake view studio for the beginning of December. I would be incredibly disappointed if I had purchased points at VGF and was unable to secure a yearly early December reservation.
The same will be said of CCV in a few years. Not enough studios and Christmas theming is a thing there.
If I were buying CCV, whether I thought I’d use it or not, I’d buy a fixed week 49/50 studio. I’d give up the incentive to do it.
You can always break the guarantee each year and use the points as you will, but that’ll have extra value in a few years.
Walking or not.
I've already noticed CCV studios are not available at 7 months, even in summer. Agree it seems to be 'under studiod'.The same will be said of CCV in a few years. Not enough studios and Christmas theming is a thing there.
If I were buying CCV, whether I thought I’d use it or not, I’d buy a fixed week 49/50 studio. I’d give up the incentive to do it.
You can always break the guarantee each year and use the points as you will, but that’ll have extra value in a few years.
Walking or not.
That could become an issue with banking and borrowing points, though, and actually plays into the discussion earlier about people who are “points rich” able to do it without walking - either by holding an extra day or having a backup reservation while piecing together another stay say by day using the waitlist and stalking. General consensus seemed to be “walking=bad, piecing together a stay day by day=ok” but without a huge distinction in why. Arguably piecing together a stay day by day is as much or more work for CMs because you have multiple single day reservations until you can link them.I wasn't sure if it would be better to post this here or on the 60 day fastpass being added thread, but does anybody else see more people walking reservations in order to get harder to get FPs now that they are open for more people.
For example, I plan to go for 4 days this summer. Definitely FOP will be taken by those who grab it at the tail end of longer reservations. I could just book 10 days, or as many as I can with the points I have available, and then cancel the first 6 after my 60 day mark has passed, but before the 30 day point of no return window. This would allow me to get the harder to get FPs at the end of my 10 day reservation, which is actually the only days I plan on going.
Ethically, it would be the same idea as walking. Everybody can do it. Yes I am jumping ahead in line of others to get a FP but walking a reservation does the same thing for getting a room.
That could become an issue with banking and borrowing points, though, and actually plays into the discussion earlier about people who are “points rich” able to do it without walking - either by holding an extra day or having a backup reservation while piecing together another stay say by day using the waitlist and stalking. General consensus seemed to be “walking=bad, piecing together a stay day by day=ok” but without a huge distinction in why. Arguably piecing together a stay day by day is as much or more work for CMs because you have multiple single day reservations until you can link them.
Also - others may be more familiar this but there’s a whole “throwaway room” discussion in theme park strategies that seems like it would be easier than walking to get earlier FPs.
That's true and that will always be the case. The difference for walking is 2, it's a loophole and not a planned method and holding rooms one never intends to use thus blocking out others trying to use the system as designed by reserving at 11 months out. But certainly there will never be a 100% perfect system. But I'm convinced that trying to fix waking but not having impact elsewhere will fail. You either leave it alone and write it into the rules, you make it procedurally impossible or you make it costly enough that almost no one will do it.That could become an issue with banking and borrowing points, though, and actually plays into the discussion earlier about people who are “points rich” able to do it without walking - either by holding an extra day or having a backup reservation while piecing together another stay say by day using the waitlist and stalking. General consensus seemed to be “walking=bad, piecing together a stay day by day=ok” but without a huge distinction in why. Arguably piecing together a stay day by day is as much or more work for CMs because you have multiple single day reservations until you can link them.
Also - others may be more familiar this but there’s a whole “throwaway room” discussion in theme park strategies that seems like it would be easier than walking to get earlier FPs.
I've already noticed CCV studios are not available at 7 months, even in summer. Agree it seems to be 'under studiod'.
BTW - here's what looks like it's being walked now (probably for Thanksgiving):
Standard studios: BLT, CCV, VGF, BWV
Value and Club studios at AKV-Jambo
How many rooms is that, total, compared to what's available?
I had not thought about it until your post, but maybe the number of walkers is too insignificant for DVC to care.
AKV (23) + BLT (30) + BWV (52) + CCV (78) + VGF (30) = 213
Even if every single one of those studios is being walked, 213 members is a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of DVC members.