The Q

FangirlsDilemma

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Okay, but speaking as a straight man within the straight community, most are becoming to accept the gay community. IMO, the way to win over the rest is not to be “in your face”. That doesn’t mean hide your sexualism, it just means slow down on the confrontation. It’s a new(er) thing to be open, and confrontation is not the way to win people over imo.

As a conservative straight man, I have stated my views. I’m sorry if you cannot accept them. I honestly think the gay community would be better received without the drama.
Very few care anymore. That in and of it
The Problem with the "not caring" contingent is that many claim not to care UNTIL you try to be yourself. Then they care VERY MUCH. "I don't care if you're straight or gay or trans UNTIL YOU MAKE ME AWARE OF IT!" They're happy to ignore, but not to include. It may seem like a small distinction to a straight person, but to LGBTQ folks it can be everything.

Also, as a Bi woman, I use Queer as a self identifier. I respect that it's a too triggering for some, but I like it as an umbrella term.
 

rkstocke5609

Registered Troublemaker
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Very interesting discussion, I will have to ask some coworkers how they feel about use of the “Q” word. I work with a diverse group and will report back.
 


Resident of Jinsy

Earning My Ears
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
I’m straight, but have absolutely no issues with those who are not.
My nephew, who I cherish dearly, is gay and married to another man. I support that whole heartedly.

My question is the “Q”. I think that stands for queer. Personally I do not use that that word as it seems derogatory. I disagree with it. Almost like a black person using the “n” word. I hate it, and am surprised it is accepted here. I totally get the “LGBT”, but not the Q.

Please tell me where I’m wrong.
I think you should watch Pride, a movie released in 2014 about gay women and men who helped a group of miners during their strike in 1984-85. It is based on historical events and if I'm remembering it correctly, there is a scene where they talk about reclaiming words.
 
  • MickyLynn

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 5, 2019
    This isn't an attack, I just want to point out an assumption being made and gone along with in some prior posts.

    Nobody should have to 'win us over' to get married or to be protected from harrasment and bigotry in a personal or financial capacity. No one group's perspective is the default. Nobody's right to existence is dependent on the gaze of another. "They" don't have to make "us" like them to be entitled to basic rights. (Fill in any 'they/us' dichotomy you want here.)

    It is super easy to forget that therein lies the basis of the argument when the argument's success relies on acknowledgement by others.
     

    siren0119

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2018
    I'm interested in this thread as I'm always trying to be respectful of the wishes of folks especially in the terms they want to be used in association with (pronouns, whatever).

    My very close friend self-identifies as genderqueer/queer. I've asked them about it and to them, the term "queer" means "doesn't fit into a specific/singular category". They're AFAB, considers themselves to be genderfluid (NOT transgender) and bisexual. Since they don't fit in any one category, they use genderqueer and queer to encompass all of those things.
     
  • Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    The Problem with the "not caring" contingent is that many claim not to care UNTIL you try to be yourself. Then they care VERY MUCH. "I don't care if you're straight or gay or trans UNTIL YOU MAKE ME AWARE OF IT!" They're happy to ignore, but not to include. It may seem like a small distinction to a straight person, but to LGBTQ folks it can be everything.

    Also, as a Bi woman, I use Queer as a self identifier. I respect that it's a too triggering for some, but I like it as an umbrella term.
    The problem I have with the word “queer” is not so much directed at the gay commumunity, but rather when I was growing up it was a “bullying” term used for certain folks that didn’t fit in.
    I was never a fan of that. I understand it may have a different meaning in the gay community, but I still grew up being taught that was not proper.
    I hate that term.
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    The Problem with the "not caring" contingent is that many claim not to care UNTIL you try to be yourself. Then they care VERY MUCH. "I don't care if you're straight or gay or trans UNTIL YOU MAKE ME AWARE OF IT!" They're happy to ignore, but not to include. It may seem like a small distinction to a straight person, but to LGBTQ folks it can be everything.

    Also, as a Bi woman, I use Queer as a self identifier. I respect that it's a too triggering for some, but I like it as an umbrella term.
    I don’t care if I’m aware of it. I think that’s the beauty of it.
    Let everyone do what that want (gender wise) and we all just roll with it as their choice.

    Is that a wrong way to look at it in your opinion?
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    This isn't an attack, I just want to point out an assumption being made and gone along with in some prior posts.

    Nobody should have to 'win us over' to get married or to be protected from harrasment and bigotry in a personal or financial capacity. No one group's perspective is the default. Nobody's right to existence is dependent on the gaze of another. "They" don't have to make "us" like them to be entitled to basic rights. (Fill in any 'they/us' dichotomy you want here.)

    It is super easy to forget that therein lies the basis of the argument when the argument's success relies on acknowledgement by others.
    I agree that no one should have to “win you over”. If I used that phrase, I was wrong. What I mean is “gain acceptance”. That still may be a stretch, but I feel many still need to do that.
    I still feel the way to do that is by being non confrontational. YMMV.
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    I have said my feelings, and I feel strongly about them. I have full support for gay/lesbian marriage/couples, but not the in your face activism.

    With that said, I will bow out of this thread as I do not want to be deemed a troll causing trouble.

    And I refuse to call anyone queer.
     
  • MickyLynn

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 5, 2019
    Let everyone do what that want (gender wise) and we all just roll with it as their choice.

    Is that a wrong way to look at it in your opinion?
    No, not at all, I agree 100%. As I said, I wasn't looking to attack you or anyone, just point out a line of thinking common in a lot of civil rights conversations that doesn't necessarily square with inherently having rights, even though the intent is to support recognizing those rights.
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    I have said my feelings, and I feel strongly about them. I have full support for gay/lesbian marriage/couples, but not the in your face activism.

    With that said, I will bow out of this thread as I do not want to be deemed a troll causing trouble.

    And I refuse to call anyone queer.
    I completely understand what you are saying. I judge people based on their actions, not on their race, sexuality, etc. But I also think that some things are private and everyone does not need to hear about it. Everyone should happily be themselves without being "in your face", especially about your personal life. I feel the same way about politics and religion. You do you, but I don't want to hear about it all the time in general conversation because that is your life and your privacy. Just like I don't go around telling everyone about my sexuality, it's none of anyone's business.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    I will say I’m an extremely private person in general. However this concept of “in your face” is a slippery slope; what is defined as “in your face”. For some that’s holding hands in public, getting married, kissing, etc; the idea turns quickly into censorship . All things many/majority heterosexual couples do on a daily basis and not viewed as “in your face”. I don’t feel this way, though many I know do, that they are more vocal about their sexuality because they don’t want to be confused as the more likely sexuality of straight (because it’s hard emotionally to realize someone thought of you as straight again and having to correct it all the time and watch a flurry of emotions on their face) and feel censored by comments of “in your face”. Usually I suggest to ignore someone’s action you don’t have an emotional or personal connection to them it won’t be an issue from either side (my mom taught me to mind my business as long as no one, meaning a reasonable person, is being physically or emotionally hurt), but I will say please consider being in the other persons shoes before you ask them to be quiet and don’t discuss their sexuality. It’s hard to realize but straight people quite often talk about theirs but it’s been normalized, and I personally think that is what everyone just wants to be treated normal.
     
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    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    I will say I’m an extremely private person in general. However this concept of “in your face” is a slippery slope; what is defined as “in your face”. For some that’s holding hands in public, getting married, kissing, etc; the idea turns quickly into censorship . All things many/majority heterosexual couples do on a daily basis and not viewed as “in your face”. I don’t feel this way, though many I know do, that they are more vocal about their sexuality because they don’t want to be confused as the more likely sexuality of straight (because it’s hard emotionally to realize someone thought of you as straight again and having to correct it all the time and watch a flurry of emotions on their face) and feel censored by comments of “in your face”. Usually I suggest to ignore someone’s action you don’t have an emotional or personal connection to them it won’t be an issue from either side (my mom taught me to mind my business as long as no one, meaning a reasonable person, is being physically or emotionally hurt), but I will say please consider being in the other persons shoes before you ask them to be quiet and don’t discuss their sexuality. It’s hard to realize but straight people quite often talk about theirs but it’s been normalized, and I personally think that is what everyone just wants to be treated normal.
    That is true that everyone has a different idea of what is "in your face". I have a really high threshold for most things. But I will use religion as an example. If there is a conversation between 2 coworker, that has nothing to do with religion, I don't expect to hear "praise jesus", "thank the lord", etc more then maybe once during the conversation. If you are throwing those around like punctuation, it's too much. I don't see any reason that when 2 people, who are having a normal conversation about something else, for there to be your sexual preference brought into the conversation. For anyone, strait, bi, gay, etc. I think that is reasonable.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    That is true that everyone has a different idea of what is "in your face". I have a really high threshold for most things. But I will use religion as an example. If there is a conversation between 2 coworker, that has nothing to do with religion, I don't expect to hear "praise jesus", "thank the lord", etc more then maybe once during the conversation. If you are throwing those around like punctuation, it's too much. I don't see any reason that when 2 people, who are having a normal conversation about something else, for there to be your sexual preference brought into the conversation. For anyone, strait, bi, gay, etc. I think that is reasonable.
    I agree to an extent. But be mindful that a straight person has the presumption of being straight. So perhaps the non-straight person feels the need to mention it once (as causally as possible) just to let you know who they are as a person so you don’t build a false presumption. For instance if someone is talking about their wife (straight male) would it be appropriate for a gay person to mention their husband or wife; perhaps their is just a connection to their husband or wife to the topic at hand and it is an innocent story they wanted to share. Ultimately the best thing to do is reverse the idea to the person being straight and see if you’d (General you not necessarily directed specifically at you, this comment and full reply) be uncomfortable with the comment.
     
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    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    I agree to an extent. But be mindful that a straight person has the presumption of being straight. So perhaps the non-straight person feels the need to mention it once (as causally as possible) just to let you know who they are as a person so you don’t build a false presumption. For instance if someone is talking about their wife (straight male) would it be appropriate for a gay person to mention their husband or wife; perhaps their is just a connection to their husband or wife to the topic at hand and it is an innocent story they wanted to share. Ultimately the best thing to do is reverse the idea to the person being straight and see if you’d (General you not necessarily directed specifically at you, this comment and full reply) be uncomfortable with the comment.
    Of course mentioning a spouse/significant other is fine. It's not like anyone is saying that you have to hide being LGBTQ. Just that it does not need to be the focus of every conversation. And to be honest, most people already know that the other person is gay. Just like a straight person does not go up to someone and says "I'm straight and proud", it is not necessary to for a gay person to go up and do that when it is not in context of the conversation. I think, although you mean well, you are making a bigger deal out of it then it needs to be. You will always have those that are intolerant, but most people have no issue with others. Everyone can just be themselves and have normal conversations without bringing up their sexual preferences into every conversation. I have worked with several young, gay people and have found that each individual is different in how their interact with others. Some just socialize like everyone else, and some are constantly bringing up the fact that they are gay into every conversation. That is what we are talking about.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    Of course mentioning a spouse/significant other is fine. It's not like anyone is saying that you have to hide being LGBTQ. Just that it does not need to be the focus of every conversation. And to be honest, most people already know that the other person is gay. Just like a straight person does not go up to someone and says "I'm straight and proud", it is not necessary to for a gay person to go up and do that when it is not in context of the conversation. I think, although you mean well, you are making a bigger deal out of it then it needs to be. You will always have those that are intolerant, but most people have no issue with others. Everyone can just be themselves and have normal conversations without bringing up their sexual preferences into every conversation. I have worked with several young, gay people and have found that each individual is different in how their interact with others. Some just socialize like everyone else, and some are constantly bringing up the fact that they are gay into every conversation. That is what we are talking about.
    The final thought I will leave you is put yourself in the other person’s shoes and try to understand their actions or reasons; ultimately you don’t have to be involved with people you don’t like it’s a free world.
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    The final thought I will leave you is put yourself in the other person’s shoes and try to understand their actions or reasons; ultimately you don’t have to be involved with people you don’t like it’s a free world.
    WOW. That is completely not at all what I am saying. I am the last person who dislikes anyone based on that, as I said. But there is a difference between being who you are, and making every single conversation about being gay. If a hetero person was to constantly put into the conversation that they were straight, it would be very strange and get old too. Because that is not a something that is normally in every day conversation. Just like the joke about vegans, "how do you know if someone is a vegan, don't worry they will tell you". You don't need to bring up being gay as a general course of conversation because it has no relevance. People like you intentionally misunderstand to stand on your indignant righteousness to make it seem that everyone is against gay people. It actually makes it worse for everyone.
     




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