This one has it all (Outback firing)

IMHO.
Yes, posting on social media, if it is a prohibited company policy, is grounds for firing.
But I am with others who say orders of that size should have a gratuity automatically added. Outback blew that part of the situation.

Now, my employer uses similar chain restaurants (but not Outback) for employee luncheons that are of similar value, and THOSE restaurants have a different policy. Orders that large per those corporate restaurants policies are handled by Managers, who are salaried and not in tipped positions. So tips are never an issue.
 
there are lots of wrongs here

The church should have called ahead and placed the order so Outback would have been prepared.

The waitress should have stayed off social media.

Her friend should have never called the church, it was because of his call that the church then called Outback.

Outback should NOT have returned all of the money for the order back to the church.
Because Outback returned all of the money for the order to the church, I think the church should be helping the waitress. Getting all of your money back and eating all of the food and then giving the waitress a tip really isn't big deal for the church. They made out very well.

Outback management was wrong. Yes they had to fire the waitress, but the when the manager saw what was happening, he should have stepped in and helped so the waitress wouldn't have been away from her tables all night. It may not be the managers job, but sometimes you have to step in. My DH has been in management for over 40 years and sometimes you just have to step in and help the team.
 


Takeout orders - to tip, or not to tip? While I don't think tips should be as compulsory on takeout orders as they are for table service, I think that a server who is making far below minimum wage shouldn't be given the task of handling take out orders at a place like Outback.

Setting aside the larger tips/no tips discussion for now, one thing that hasn't come up in this thread yet is that the fact that most states, and the federal government, require servers to claim tips based on a percentage of their sales each and every shift. In PA, the absolutely minimum I could claim upon clocking out for the night was 10%. It literally did not matter if I'd made less than that. I had to claim the 10% to even be able to clock out.

In this case, the server would have had to claim around $80 in tips for the shift, and take a loss on the taxes.

The federal government requires you to claim your tips. They don’t require you to lie. And not all wait staff even would know what their sales are. Not every small restaurant has the technology for that. What the government does do is require the restaurant to compensate you if your tips and wages together do not add up to minimum.

If a restaurant is requiring you to claim tips you did not receive, that is against the law and grounds for the waitstaff to go to the wage and hour board.
 
there are lots of wrongs here

The church should have called ahead and placed the order so Outback would have been prepared.

The waitress should have stayed off social media.

Her friend should have never called the church, it was because of his call that the church then called Outback.

Outback should NOT have returned all of the money for the order back to the church.
Because Outback returned all of the money for the order to the church, I think the church should be helping the waitress. Getting all of your money back and eating all of the food and then giving the waitress a tip really isn't big deal for the church. They made out very well.

Outback management was wrong. Yes they had to fire the waitress, but the when the manager saw what was happening, he should have stepped in and helped so the waitress wouldn't have been away from her tables all night. It may not be the managers job, but sometimes you have to step in. My DH has been in management for over 40 years and sometimes you just have to step in and help the team.

The church is trying to help her.
 


It's my understanding that most chain restaurants don't have dedicated workers to package take-out orders; a regular tipped server handles the duties. I've never ordered take-out from such places, but I'd tip if I ever do so in the future. Perhaps not 15-20%, but probably at least 10%.
 
So, I've never worked as a server, but I do process payroll for a local restaurant. Their employees are paid different rates based on what they are doing. Many times a single employee can have three or four different pay rates and hours depending on whether they are serving, hostessing, cooking or prepping. So, why can't Outback, or any other restaurant, pay the take out person full minimum wage when they are prepping take out orders, instead of paying them server wages? They could do that if they wanted to.

As a PP mentioned, if this took her whole shift, was the food worth eating by the time she was done prepping it?

She certainly should have talked to her manager rather than complaining on social media, so she really did shoot herself in the foot there.

As far as giving the church and full refund? I wonder if they order there regularly and are regarded by the manager as a really good repeat customer. Outback probably didn't want to be associated with badmouthing a church on social media and wanted to make amends. Regardless, I'm sure there are lots of details left out of this story that, if know, would change everyone's opinions one way or the other.

One final thought, how many people leave the tip via credit card/debit card when paying the bill vs. cash? I always pay with a debit card. That makes it much harder to lie about tips, doesn't it?
 
I definitely see the server's point, since she undoubtedly made well below minimum wage for her take-out shift. I have several friends who work in mid-range restaurants like Outback, Texas Roadhouse, Applebees, etc. and they all HATE getting stuck handling the call-ahead takeout. Most people don't tip or tip very little on those orders, but that station is still staffed by tipped/minimum wage exempt servers. Personally I think that's a failing of the way our labor laws handle minimum wage exemption and should be addressed - servers working the carside pick-up station should be making minimum wage or better, just like hostesses and other non-wait staff in the restaurant, not paid $3/hr to assemble and deliver orders to customers who mostly don't even realize they should be tipping.

I'm also really surprised that an order that size didn't incur an automatic gratuity of some sort, like a catering order would, rather than being treated as a normal call-ahead order. If eat-in parties of 6+ are billed an automatic 18% gratuity, you'd think that call-ahead orders of 6+ entrees would as well.

As far as the firing, it was obviously justified because the server clearly broke Outback policy but at the same time... I see where she's coming from. I'd be plenty pissed too if I worked an 8 hour shift for <$20 in tips and <$20 in hourly pay. And if she'd adhered to policy, the next server to take a similar order would likely be just as screwed.
 
And if she only made $18 in tips for the rest of the day, the employer (Outback) would have to pay her the rest to bring her up to the $8.25/hr. The $5.23/hr for tipped servers is expecting the tips to make up the extra $3.02/hr. If it did not, then Outback would be on the hook (as they should be) to bring her up to the FL minimum wage.

This only happens if her hourly average for the entire week is under minimum wage.
 
As far as the firing, it was obviously justified because the server clearly broke Outback policy but at the same time... I see where she's coming from. I'd be plenty pissed too if I worked an 8 hour shift for <$20 in tips and <$20 in hourly pay. And if she'd adhered to policy, the next server to take a similar order would likely be just as screwed.
But being pissed doesn't give you the right to violate company policy without consequences.

I can understand being sympathetic but would you personally want to be bad-mouthed by an employee and on social media?
 
curious about this is that isnt it the job of the cook to Prep the meal and organization? Honestly, all the waiter should do is to do a quick transaction, hand the food over and that is that right?

was reading this on a different place... its like mcd right? they put the order in a bag and hand it to you, are we suppose to tip them?

In reality, it doesn’t work like that at all. Even for a to-go order, it’s the server’s job to take and communicate the order correctly, check for accuracy after the cook prepares it, package any cold
items (coleslaw, salads, etc), lid everything, bag it up, add condiments, silverware, drinks, and review it with the guest. It takes a lot of time and takes quite a bit of time away from tables in the restaurant.
 
In reality, it doesn’t work like that at all. Even for a to-go order, it’s the server’s job to take and communicate the order correctly, check for accuracy after the cook prepares it, package any cold
items (coleslaw, salads, etc), lid everything, bag it up, add condiments, silverware, drinks, and review it with the guest. It takes a lot of time and takes quite a bit of time away from tables in the restaurant.
But each company has their own process. Not all companies would have a server put things together, not all companies would have dedicated members whose responsibility is to get take-out orders ready, etc.

No one is nor should be responsible for understanding how each company does it. It's why you get varied answers whenever this has come up because in reality the average person who orders a to go order typically isn't analyzing who and what exactly goes into their order.
 
In reality, it doesn’t work like that at all. Even for a to-go order, it’s the server’s job to take and communicate the order correctly, check for accuracy after the cook prepares it, package any cold
items (coleslaw, salads, etc), lid everything, bag it up, add condiments, silverware, drinks, and review it with the guest. It takes a lot of time and takes quite a bit of time away from tables in the restaurant.

I could certainly lu see this order taking a bit of time but her whole shift? It if she works with speed.

We order form a local restaurant all the time for meetings and such at work. Some of these orders can be pretty big. I have been there when the staff is packing it up and honestly it doesn’t take that long.

They have the ticket on the counter as they go through the food. They check it quickly. More scanning it than inspecting it. And bag it as they go. Throw in condiments and silverware and move on to drinks if ordered.

Now we do tip them but still and all it shouldn’t take her whole shift.
 
The federal government requires you to claim your tips. They don’t require you to lie. And not all wait staff even would know what their sales are. Not every small restaurant has the technology for that. What the government does do is require the restaurant to compensate you if your tips and wages together do not add up to minimum.

If a restaurant is requiring you to claim tips you did not receive, that is against the law and grounds for the waitstaff to go to the wage and hour board.

You're right. I definitely didn't word that correctly at all. The IRS assumption is that servers make at least 10% of their sales, but it was definitely the restaurant that was requiring the minimum claim at clock out.

You're also right that it's illegal and that servers in that position can go to their labor boards, but most servers are afraid of losing their jobs if they do. At my last serving job, I was told that a labor board complaint would mean that I would be written off the schedule. Since I live in an "at will" state, it would have been difficult to prove that I'd been penalized for complaining. I ended up quitting and then reporting them. As far as I know, nothing ever came of my report. I was really only able to do that because I was working there part time for extra money. If it was my full time job, I probably would have just sucked it up while looking for work elsewhere.

The U.S. restaurant industry runs on the assumption that most sit down diners accept the social convention of tipping, and that most people who are willing to take serving jobs have done so out of necessity. The only way this will ever change is if both patrons and servers fight for it.
 
You're right. I definitely didn't word that correctly at all. The IRS assumption is that servers make at least 10% of their sales, but it was definitely the restaurant that was requiring the minimum claim at clock out.

You're also right that it's illegal and that servers in that position can go to their labor boards, but most servers are afraid of losing their jobs if they do. At my last serving job, I was told that a labor board complaint would mean that I would be written off the schedule. Since I live in an "at will" state, it would have been difficult to prove that I'd been penalized for complaining. I ended up quitting and then reporting them. As far as I know, nothing ever came of my report. I was really only able to do that because I was working there part time for extra money. If it was my full time job, I probably would have just sucked it up while looking for work elsewhere.

The U.S. restaurant industry runs on the assumption that most sit down diners accept the social convention of tipping, and that most people who are willing to take serving jobs have done so out of necessity. The only way this will ever change is if both patrons and servers fight for it.
Honestly if my job told me that reporting something illegal meant I was written out of the schedule that would make me even more determined to make a complaint. You could have also tried for unemployment on the basis of a hostile work environment should you have left. At-will doesn't mean you can't utilize your options. It just means the employer has more reasons they can come up with to fire or lay off someone.

Are complaints anonymous?
 
A little of everything, lol...

Outback Steakhouse employee fired for complaining on Facebook that a church group with a $735 order that she spent her whole shift preparing stiffed her for a tip so that she only made $18 in [other] tips for her whole shift that day. (ETA a 15% tip on $725 would've been $110.)

In her FB post, she named the church, but not the restaurant.

Church contacted restaurant to try to remedy the situation, saying the person who picked up the order didn't know they were supposed to tip on takeout orders.

Outback fired server because it's against their company policy to complain about customers on Facebook.

Church feels bad now that she was fired over the situation. Two parishioners forked over a generous tip for her.

Outback refunded church's money for their trouble.

Employee still without a job. (But church trying to help her find another.)

Employee starting a campaign to educate consumers on tipping for takeout orders.

Holy Moly! :rotfl2:

Original article (long):
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...ut-order-complains---and-gets-fired_165416443

Updated article (a little more concise):
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...5-order-mega-church-finally-pays-up_165437896

Pick an issue for response!

Takeout orders - to tip, or not to tip?
Facebook - to complain about work, or not to complain?
Servers' wages relying on tips
Church spending - ? extravagant
Who did what in the aftermath
Should Outback have refunded the cost of the church's takeout meal?
Do you need education on tipping?
Who likes Outback, anyway? :laughing:


1. You should tip on takeout, from a location that is primarily dine-in. No need to tip at McD's, up to you if you want to tip your baristas, but yes, tip 10%+ to the carryout from dine-in locations. Unless the location has a dedicated To-go server, the to-go order impacts their sales, and impacts their tips, tip-out and salary. Some places have their servers tip up to 25% of total sales to the busboys, cooks, hosts and bartenders, whether the server is tipped properly or not. Also, sometimes shifts and table counts are based on their sales and tips.

2. Complain if you wish. Don't name the company/person stiffing you; don't name the company you work for. Don't be surprised if you lose your job, though; reputations count, and a complaining server doesn't make a good rep.

3. It can be good for the servers. I know servers who have made more than the GMs in some places. I was a GM making $55,000 a year, and I interviewed a server who was looking to change from serving to management until she heard the salary.

4. If the church has the money in its coffers, it's not my place to comment on where they spend it. Big fancy churches; gold candlesticks; meals for the poor; or dining out for the church eldars...unless I'm involved in that church, not my place.

5. Server should have not named names; Outback had no option but to fire her for her comments; church should be frowned on for not tipping.

6. From what I understand, it was refunded for two reasons. One, the server complaint, and two, it was supposed to be delivered and that fell through.

7. I don't, but it seems some do. I've waited many tables on Sunday mornings, and it is NOT the most pocket-enriching shift. I could count on at least two "bills that aren't really bills but are church tracts" being left as tips, many more "keep the change"...all .20 worth, as the tip, and yet more "I can't tip, I had to tithe to my church" comments. IMHO, Sunday morning church diners are all about the fluff and not about the substance.

8. Sodium laced fried onions? Bring it on. I can make a better steak, though.
 

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