Tipping - resort staff

I've always thought that Minimum Wages were a bit of a red herring anyway. The problem with using things like Minimum Wage to address this is that it doesn't really actually help. What tends to happen is that hey, if Person A was getting $12 and is now getting $15 and Person B was already making $15, Person B tends not to stay at $15. They'll argue that they should go to $18 and on and on. So, what happens is that when things wash out, relatively speaking everyone is kind of where they were before because pricing of goods now has to reflect the new cost of labor.

At that point, some other politician will then say, no, the minimum wage now needs to go to $18 and the cycle will continue, wash, rinse, repeat...

The problem that I see with a $15 per hour national minimum wage is its going to effect the cost of all goods. I don't know about you but I don't want to pay $15 for an ice cream cone (just one example). Most of the jobs that will benefit positively are work entry positions, they are not meant to be a career. I also don't think employers are going to want to bump everyone up the line to keep things all equal. I'm sure I will get flamed for my opinion but it is what it is.
 
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I don't like that people look down on hard working people in these industries and say to "just get a better job". Just because housekeepers make more then the few bucks that servers do, does not mean that they are in any way "paid enough". I find it strange that people have no issue with tipping bell service, or the person that delivers your room service, but not housekeeping. Just because someone labeled them as "not a tipped position".


I think the misunderstanding here is that being a "tipped position" or a "non-tipped position" is just an arbitrary label. It's not. It's a fundamental difference in their compensation. For example, here in Ontario, Canada, minimum wage is $14/hr, however a waiter/waitress who generally receive tips have a minimum wage of $12.20/hr. The fact that it is customary for this position to receive tips is built into the wage paid by the employer.

Whether you believe that this is a livable wage or not is not really relevant to the discussion. Tipping an extra $20 is not all of a sudden going to change their fortune by more than $20. If society felt that this job was worth more than $15/hr, then either the market would would pay that much, or people would lobby their governments to institute for a higher minimum wage.

There people are doing intimate things for you, cleaning the toilet you used, changing the bed you slept on, but giving them a couple of bucks in appreciation is too much? I don't get it.

We do give them a couple bucks. It's built into our maintenance fees. If the union wanted this to be a tipped position, our MF would be lower, and we would be expected to tip. Either way, it's theoretically the same amount they receive.
 
15 an hour starting rate makes them some of the best paid housekeepers anywhere.
Willing to bet they are not full time, nor receiving any appreciable benefits such as employer subsidized health insurance

you can’t stereotype who works for minimum wage. There are multitudes of college educated millennials who are under employed with crushing educational debt.

I hear the argument often (always from those who don’t work for minimum wage) that raising it will not help the economy as a whole. Those actually depending upon it as a living wage surely would beg to differ. i certainly don’t begrudge anyone from negotiating the best deal they can.

I often (over)tip because I want to, think of it as paying it forward. Absolutely not begrudgingly because I feel coerced. YMMV. Anything coming from a different mindset will likely not change your outlook on it. I don’t understand the need to justify not tipping, as it’s ultimately a personal choice. However, In my mind housekeeping is a definite tipped position.
 
I hear the argument often (always from those who don’t work for minimum wage) that raising it will not help the economy as a whole. Those actually depending upon it as a living wage surely would beg to differ. i certainly don’t begrudge anyone from negotiating the best deal they can.
The problem with this argument is what I stated before. You arbitrarily raise a wage, but the relative value of the position will still remain to other positions. Nothing happens in a vacuum. So all of those will adjust upwards as well. Then, because now prices have increased, everyone ends up just where they were before.

Example:

I used to make $7.50/hr and a subway sandwich cost $5.00.

Now, I make $15/hr, but the subway sandwich is now $10.

I am not any better off...
 
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The problem with this argument is what I stated before. You arbitrarily raise a wage, but the relative value of the position will still remain to other positions. Nothing happens in a vacuum. So all of those will adjust upwards as well. Then, because now prices have increased, everyone ends up just where they were before.

Example:

I used to make $7.50/hr and a subway sandwich cost $5.00.

Now, I make $15/hr, but the subway sandwich is now $10.

I am not any better off...

The fact is that cost of living has gone up but minimum wage has not kept up proportionately. That is why so many are demanding a much higher minimum wage jump. If they upped the minimum wage annually to keep up with cost of living, there would not be this problem with playing catch up.
 
The fact is that cost of living has gone up but minimum wage has not kept up proportionately. That is why so many are demanding a much higher minimum wage jump. If they upped the minimum wage annually to keep up with cost of living, there would not be this problem with playing catch up.
Why should there even be a minimum wage? Let the market decide. Also, there are other factors as well in that less people will be employed. For instance, I have in-laws that run a florist. A number of employees there are close to minimum wage (most of these are in the 16-23 range). So, if the minimum wage increases, the adjustment could also be to hire less of these employees instead of raising prices.

ETA: I am not suggesting that I don't want folks to make more. I do. I am all for companies investing in their employees. In fact, it should be good business as those companies that treat their employees better tend to have better employees that are long-term. I am just making the point that just bumping up the "minimum wage" doesn't necessarily have the effect that people think it will...
 
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Do you tip bell service? They are just doing their job. Or the guy who delivers your room service, same thing. Just wonder how someone goes about and decides what job is worth a few extra bucks tip to them. To me, cleaning up after someone, is much more worthy of a few extra bucks then a guy who drives me in a golf cart to my room.

I'm just curious do you fly to Orlando? Do you tip the stewards/stewardesses. They have a gross job cleaning up during and after a flight.
When you go to the parks do you tip the janitors? They have an incredibly disgusting job and do it amazingly well.
The list can go on and on.
As you put it I'm just trying to understand how someone goes about and decides what job is worth a few extra bucks to them. And, as you said, cleaning up after someone is much more worthy of a few extra bucks.
 


Why should there even be a minimum wage? Let the market decide. Also, there are other factors as well in that less people will be employed. For instance, I have in-laws that run a florist. A number of employees there are close to minimum wage (most of these are in the 16-23 range). So, if the minimum wage increases, the adjustment could also be to hire less of these employees instead of raising prices.

ETA: I am not suggesting that I don't want folks to make more. I do. I am all for companies investing in their employees. In fact, it should be good business as those companies that treat their employees better tend to have better employees that are long-term. I am just making the point that just bumping up the "minimum wage" doesn't necessarily have the effect that people think it will...

Time has shown us that business owners can't be trusted to pay a fair wage. We don't need to go back in time.
 
Time has shown us that business owners can't be trusted to pay a fair wage. We don't need to go back in time.
Oh, I disagree with that. There is a LOT of competition for labor. I know that at my former company (where I did a lot of hiring) it was difficult to find good candidates. The best way to do that is to up pay and offer good benefits. If a company doesn't do this, they get left behind... Look at what Alphabet (Google) does for their employees.

There are too many options for someone to only have 1 job opportunity.
 
I am just making the point that just bumping up the "minimum wage" doesn't necessarily have the effect that people think it will...

In our province they upped the minimum wage to 15$. The Macdonalds in our area almost immediate cut back staff and installed kiosks. One restaurant chain actually pulled operations from the province. People will only pay so much for a burger. I don't know what the answer is but if wages go up costs go up.

Also I always find this article intriguing

https://nationalpost.com/news/the-1...myth-some-hard-truths-about-tipping-in-canada
 
Interesting article linked above. I’m from the UK and on various Disney forums and Facebooks for the UK. Tipping has become a much more regular conversation piece than it used to be, with the general consensus that the tipping culture in the US has now become out of control. Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm highlighted this nicely quite a few years ago- remember when his thermostat would not work in his hotel room, and he was expected to tip the maintenance guy who came to fix it? I know that was comedy but that’s how foreign visitors feel, everyone and his mother demanding a tip. Then the tips going up and up.

I just look at the comments on here, housekeepers cannot live on $15 an hour etc. This is unskilled work, and $15 an hour is extremely well paid for housekeeping. In the UK they’ll earn about $11 on average including London with similar levels of cost of living.

The article linked above, contains this statement, which for many foreign people (read the rest of the world) makes sense:

“Opening a $100 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle of wine requires the same effort and yet at a rate of 15 per cent, one yields a tip of $15 and the other $4.50. The three-second action of a bartender snapping the cap off a beer bottle is expected to yield a tip of $1. Meanwhile, the heavily involved process of preparing a hot lemon and water pays nothing. “It’s simply an irrational custom that is deeply embedded in our culture,” said Marc S. Mentzer, a professor at the University of Saskatchewan’s Edwards School of Business who has written a history of tipping. Icelanders believe in fairies, Spaniards set charging bulls loose in their streets for fun and North Americans tip.”
 
Whether one tips or doesn't tip the housekeepers is a personal decision and I don't really care what other folks decide to do one way or the other. My own thoughts are that the folks who clean the rooms probably don't make enough money to stay in the rooms they clean, so I do tend to tip at the end of the stay. I don't miss the money and if it brightens someone else's day, so much the better!
 
I never tipped based on the salary someone makes. I have always tipped based on the service I have received. If I tipped someone before, I wouldn’t stop tipping them because they received a raise. My philosophy has always been to take care of the people that take care of you.
 
Oh, I disagree with that. There is a LOT of competition for labor. I know that at my former company (where I did a lot of hiring) it was difficult to find good candidates. The best way to do that is to up pay and offer good benefits. If a company doesn't do this, they get left behind... Look at what Alphabet (Google) does for their employees.

There are too many options for someone to only have 1 job opportunity.
The labor market is super tight and the hardest workers to find right now are those to fill those positions many would consider unskilled. I find it funny that people will complain about the money someone could make as a housekeeper when they wouldn’t do that work for twice the pay. If you want quality people entering you room everyday pay them and tip in a way that will attract quality people to the job.
 
I also think the tipping culture we have here in the US is out of control. I teach Psychology classes and in part it's because no one wants to be below average as a tipper. Thus the average creeps up and up.

Having said this, based on my limited travels abroad, service tends to be substantially better in the US than in restaurants I've experienced in Europe.
 
I also think the tipping culture we have here in the US is out of control. I teach Psychology classes and in part it's because no one wants to be below average as a tipper. Thus the average creeps up and up.

Having said this, based on my limited travels abroad, service tends to be substantially better in the US than in restaurants I've experienced in Europe.
Yeah, I keep wondering when a tip at a restaurant went from 15% to 20%. Not sure why that was...

For wait staff, tipping is incorporated into the expectation of their salary and they will fight tooth and nail for it to stay that way and it has to do with taxes. On tips, they are only required to claim 7%, but probably clear much more than that tax free...

I will say that there is one tipping situation that does bug me. If you have a party of 6 and say you are eating at Boma, you pay an 18% tip to someone that essentially just brings you a drink (and if you are lucky, a refill). For that, one night our server earned around $60... Buffets should be lower...
 
Yeah, I keep wondering when a tip at a restaurant went from 15% to 20%. Not sure why that was...

For wait staff, tipping is incorporated into the expectation of their salary and they will fight tooth and nail for it to stay that way and it has to do with taxes. On tips, they are only required to claim 7%, but probably clear much more than that tax free...

I will say that there is one tipping situation that does bug me. If you have a party of 6 and say you are eating at Boma, you pay an 18% tip to someone that essentially just brings you a drink (and if you are lucky, a refill). For that, one night our server earned around $60... Buffets should be lower...
They're also responsible for clearing plates, and at the rate some people hit those buffets, that adds up to a heck of a lot more work than a server who just takes your order and checks on you once in awhile. Maybe people don't see them doing this because they're up at the buffet when it happens. Our servers at Boma have always done a great job of keeping drinks refilled and clearing plates - I sure wouldn't begrudge them a basic 18% tip.
 
Oh, I disagree with that. There is a LOT of competition for labor. I know that at my former company (where I did a lot of hiring) it was difficult to find good candidates. The best way to do that is to up pay and offer good benefits. If a company doesn't do this, they get left behind... Look at what Alphabet (Google) does for their employees.

There are too many options for someone to only have 1 job opportunity.

And that is all depending on where you live. The whole country does not have the same employment status.
 
They're also responsible for clearing plates, and at the rate some people hit those buffets, that adds up to a heck of a lot more work than a server who just takes your order and checks on you once in awhile. Maybe people don't see them doing this because they're up at the buffet when it happens. Our servers at Boma have always done a great job of keeping drinks refilled and clearing plates - I sure wouldn't begrudge them a basic 18% tip.

but does the buffet server at Boma deserve more than a buffet server at, say, Golden Corral? The server at Boma is making probably six times as much tips as the server at Golden Corral for the same work.
 
but does the buffet server at Boma deserve more than a buffet server at, say, Golden Corral? The server at Boma is making probably six times as much tips as the server at Golden Corral for the same work.
Your argument is against percentage tipping in general, which is the way it’s done in this country. Restaurants that are more expensive will result in higher tips for servers, which will attract a better, more stable wait staff.

Tipping is a cultural thing - it’s not based on logic. I really feel for people from non-tipping cultures because they are expected to add what I’m sure looks like a ridiculous amount to their dining costs. When you read restaurant reviews those folks will almost always state the amount of the tip in the review.
 

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