Warning Re: Closing

[Mumof4mice]

Just been informed by the broker that my contract has been cancelled. The whole situation smells. I'm suspicious that the Seller had nefarious intentions from the beginning.

I was told that Seller withheld information about being behind in her mortgage payments by a whole year (although shouldn't the broker/DVC have verified it during ROFR?). Seller needed to come up with funds in order to discharge the loan. She stated that funds had been transferred and urged the closing agent to close before her funds arrived.

Fortunately the closing agent was onto it. And I never transfer the balance to escrow until I get confirmation that all is in order anyway. Otherwise some of the horror timeshare scam stories would be repeated here, where the buyer takes over to find that they do not have clear title and need to come up with another $10k... Now that her game is up, seller decided to let the contract go into foreclosure.

The broker, title company and I have all wasted two months. Not a good start to my DVC adventure.

Anyway, I'm back on the hunt. Taking on board advice received from DIS members and prioritising a second home resort (PVB just worked out cheapest when I was looking before). I would call it turning lemon into lemonade except I love lemons. This is more like turning elephant poo into eco-friendly paper.

Anyone see a nice SEP/DEC BLT/VGF please shoot me a message!

 

[OneLittleSpark2014]

I'm so sorry you've had this nightmare experience. That's just terrible! Best wishes in your future DVC dealings. I'm sure that you WILL get one through and this will all be a distant memory.

 

[LYSE]

Sorry to hear but how could the scam work when you have a title company and title insurance?

 

[Mumof4mice]

Sorry to hear but how could the scam work when you have a title company and title insurance?

Thanks. I don't think it would work if you have a good title company who carries out due diligence. But there are plenty of cases in property sales, where liens are discovered after settlement and fund dispersal. As far as title insurance goes, it's a safety net but your capital would be tied up for a long time while it's sorted out. Not an ideal situation.

I didn't mention in my original post that seller put up a good bluff right to the bitter end. She was a professional who owned her own firm, and the title company/agent had to go through her assistant to communicate with her because she was always busy. Neither had an inkling she was in debt.

 

[NewbieMom]

Again, so sorry to hear this happen to you. Your story is making me nervous. We received closing docs on 6/8 and the seller still hasn't returned theirs. I didn't think to withhold the remaining funds (sent to title company with my signed docs).

Hopefully this is just one bad lemon.

 

[LYSE]

Thanks. I don't think it would work if you have a good title company who carries out due diligence. But there are plenty of cases in property sales, where liens are discovered after settlement and fund dispersal. As far as title insurance goes, it's a safety net but your capital would be tied up for a long time while it's sorted out. Not an ideal situation.

Makes sense.

Good luck on finding another contract, our closing was delayed slightly because it was discovered the seller needed to come up with about 1k..but luckily it seems to have been innocent and they paid up.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Again, so sorry to hear this happen to you. Your story is making me nervous. We received closing docs on 6/8 and the seller still hasn't returned theirs. I didn't think to withhold the remaining funds (sent to title company with my signed docs).

Hopefully this is just one bad lemon.

I hope it all goes smoothly for you!

It should be standard procedure for the title company to keep the funds in escrow until the points are in your account. But if you're concerned you could always send them an email. That way you have it in writing. Good luck!

 

[CMNJ]

I was told that Seller withheld information about being behind in her mortgage payments by a whole year (although shouldn't the broker/DVC have verified it during ROFR?). Seller needed to come up with funds in order to discharge the loan. She stated that funds had been transferred and urged the closing agent to close before her funds arrived.

So sorry to hear this. It really sucks to have a dishonest seller. As far as ROFR goes I don’t think Disney does anything regarding verification of loans/dues/etc during that. They simply review the contract as written to see if they want to purchase it instead (not for buyer protection). If the points listed on the contract don’t match what actually exists (ie a mistake was made or the seller used points that were supposed to be part of the sale) they require the seller and buyer to submit an updated contract that does match. Again I don’t think this is for buyer protection either but rather so that if the buyer negotiates a lower price as a result Disney can still step in and take it at the lower price. My understanding is that estoppel (which happens after Disney waives ROFR) is supposed to provide the title company all the pertinent financial information concerning the contract for sale. That is when they find out how much money (if any) the seller must bring to the table to close the sale as Disney will not complete the transfer of the contract to the new buyer until any mortgage, dues, fees, etc are settled. I’m not sure if Disney will release such info to a broker at the time the seller decides to list their contract so they may be at the mercy of the seller and their honesty. We had an issue a few years ago where a dishonest/misinformed seller listed 2 separate contracts with a brand new resale company that did not require them to print off anything from their online account showing their point status. As a result both my contract and another Disboards member had to cancel our sales as it was discovered that both contracts were actually stripped and therefore overpriced as they both didn’t have any points coming for well over 1 year. It was discovered in ROFR so our deposit money wasn’t tied up as long as yours but I certainly feel your pain (our 2nd attempt was taken by ROFR so it took us like 4.5 months from the initial attempt to actually closing on our resale).

 

[disneyeveryyear]

Just been informed by the broker that my contract has been cancelled. The whole situation smells. I'm suspicious that the Seller had nefarious intentions from the beginning.

I was told that Seller withheld information about being behind in her mortgage payments by a whole year (although shouldn't the broker/DVC have verified it during ROFR?). Seller needed to come up with funds in order to discharge the loan. She stated that funds had been transferred and urged the closing agent to close before her funds arrived.

Fortunately the closing agent was onto it. And I never transfer the balance to escrow until I get confirmation that all is in order anyway. Otherwise some of the horror timeshare scam stories would be repeated here, where the buyer takes over to find that they do not have clear title and need to come up with another $10k... Now that her game is up, seller decided to let the contract go into foreclosure.

The broker, title company and I have all wasted two months. Not a good start to my DVC adventure.

Anyway, I'm back on the hunt. Taking on board advice received from DIS members and prioritising a second home resort (PVB just worked out cheapest when I was looking before). I would call it turning lemon into lemonade except I love lemons. This is more like turning elephant poo into eco-friendly paper.

Anyone see a nice SEP/DEC BLT/VGF please shoot me a message!

Sorry to hear about this bad luck and the time wasted. I will let you know if I see anything.
How many points are you looking for?

 

[kboo]

I am so sorry to hear about this. That really stinks! Making me a little worried about our seller as well, because I know they were underwater on something (mortgage or dues or both). Meanwhile, I keep seeing other contracts that would be as good or better, and sitting on my hands and putting my phone far, far away. My money is already with the title company, unfortunately, because I was hoping for a quick closing. we shall see.

 

[disneyeveryyear]

Sorry to hear about this bad luck and the time wasted. I will let you know if I see anything.
How many points are you looking for?

I sent you a PM with some info on contracts.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Thanks everyone! The broker has dealt with the situation admirably. They are out of luck too with a seller like this. I'm kind of sorry for them actually. They have vowed to locate a replacement for me. Hopefully that eventuates.

Good luck and hope your contracts close quickly without any incident! Complete fallouts like this must be uncommon, otherwise the message board would be full of stories.

 

[TexasChick123]

Oh no!!! I’m so sorry this happened to you. It really isn’t fair that there’s no recourse. I wish there was a different standard.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Thanks! I'm trying to shrug it off and and look on the bright side. Maybe a nice BLT/VGF will show up.

My other contract, which is awaiting estoppel, was also purchased on finance by the seller... I don't even want to think about that!

 

[Beesknees6]

Just been informed by the broker that my contract has been cancelled. The whole situation smells. I'm suspicious that the Seller had nefarious intentions from the beginning.

I was told that Seller withheld information about being behind in her mortgage payments by a whole year (although shouldn't the broker/DVC have verified it during ROFR?). Seller needed to come up with funds in order to discharge the loan. She stated that funds had been transferred and urged the closing agent to close before her funds arrived.

Fortunately the closing agent was onto it. And I never transfer the balance to escrow until I get confirmation that all is in order anyway. Otherwise some of the horror timeshare scam stories would be repeated here, where the buyer takes over to find that they do not have clear title and need to come up with another $10k... Now that her game is up, seller decided to let the contract go into foreclosure.

The broker, title company and I have all wasted two months. Not a good start to my DVC adventure.

Anyway, I'm back on the hunt. Taking on board advice received from DIS members and prioritising a second home resort (PVB just worked out cheapest when I was looking before). I would call it turning lemon into lemonade except I love lemons. This is more like turning elephant poo into eco-friendly paper.

Anyone see a nice SEP/DEC BLT/VGF please shoot me a message!

Wow! That’s so crazy... but glad it was caught before it closed!

 

[Beesknees6]

Thanks everyone! The broker has dealt with the situation admirably. They are out of luck too with a seller like this. I'm kind of sorry for them actually. They have vowed to locate a replacement for me. Hopefully that eventuates.

Good luck and hope your contracts close quickly without any incident! Complete fallouts like this must be uncommon, otherwise the message board would be full of stories.

Who was the broker?

 

[Mumof4mice]

Vacatia (I'm allowed to mention names as long as I'm not disparaging a supplier, right?).

 

[kboo]

Thanks! I'm trying to shrug it off and and look on the bright side. Maybe a nice BLT/VGF will show up.

My other contract, which is awaiting estoppel, was also purchased on finance by the seller... I don't even want to think about that!

I'm so sorry! Hope you find a better one soon.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Oh my goodness, the saga will never end!

I just received the closing documents for my second contract. And it's when I found out that the seller is international. This has tax implications and is not a trivial bit of information like the seller's hair color. Every other broker has volunteered the information without being asked. And I feel the broker (NOT Vacatia. A different one.) deliberately withheld the information so she wouldn't lose a potential buyer. The broker did not apologize when I questioned her about why she chose not to inform us that the seller was international. She became defensive and acted surprised: are you disappointed because you have to wait longer? At best, that's incompetence (not knowing residency status is important in a sale). But more likely plain deception (lying by omission).

I realize that I have a short fuse at the moment because of the other seller. It's not outright fraud. Just unscrupulous behaviour by the broker. Could maybe have shrugged it off otherwise. But I am just really, really unimpressed!

So disappointed with myself for not thinking to ask a direct question and get it in writing (Gasp! Trusting a timeshare salesman). Because we are also international I think we may be required to apply for an International Tax Identification Number. Extra steps, extra time, potential costs. It's just something we wouldn't have chosen to enter into.

 

[LilyJC]

And I feel the broker (NOT Vacatia. A different one.) deliberately withheld the information so she wouldn't lose a potential buyer

Was this one Fidelity by any chance? We had the same thing happen when we purchased one of our VGC contracts. We found out the day the closing docs arrived that our sellers were in Japan. Everything worked out, but it became an even more lengthy process.