What have we gotten ourselves into :(

[low-key]

Rather you believe the Bible or not, I always found this verse useful in my thinking ; Proverb 26;17 It's better to take hold of a mad dog by the ears than to take part in someone else's argument.

 

[barkley]

Also reposting this from page 2.

Some children adopted from overcrowded and understaffed orphanages may not have had all their needs met as infants and young children. To compound matters, they may have also been born addicted to drugs or alcohol and/or their birth mothers may have had poor to no pre-natal care. Infants may have suffered nutritional deficiencies in-utero and in their earliest days, etc., there are a lot of considerations but they all contribute, according to this researcher and other experts, to these brain abnormalities which can inhibit their ability to learn and function without a lot of the right kind of support, all the way into adulthood.

This girl is almost 20 years old, has 2 jobs yet doesn't know how make a sandwich, and is incapable of figuring it out without the OP to teach her? What does she do at her jobs, sit like a bump on a log?
She signed an LA fitness contract but doesn't have a bank account?
There are some things in the OP's posts that don't make much sense IMO. Those are just a few examples of things that make you go hmmm

i think there could be a bit of both of these points factoring into the situation. the girl could have deficits due to her origins/upbringing as well as have learned some manipulative behaviors that she knows when and where to apply-helplessness/seemingly ineptness at work can result in being fired whereas in a situation where the girl is on the receiving side of help from someone it can result in getting allot more help/excused or lowered expectations for behaviors/slack cut for her (my adult son is on the autism spectrum and i've seen him pull this with teachers/other adults for years as do many of his same diagnosed peers-they can 'read' an adult/situation and know when they can get away with more/get away with doing less and do not hesitate to do so which is why we are upfront with others on just how capable he is vs. how he may choose to present to them).

i would be interested to know what the situation is with the money she's earning NOW. she seems to feel she can go out and sign up for a gym membership so does she just assume she's going to live gratis with the op? i have to wonder that now that the military is out of the picture (and i wonder if she saw that as free room and board with a paycheck no one controlled) if she perceives that by moving in with the op's family she has met that goal which she now seems to have w/no incentive to improve/mature.

op i think what you've done is genuinely kind but i will caution you to keep yourself/your family's well being in the forefront. i supervised a foster care unit and while i greatly admire foster parents i saw so many foster families torn apart b/c the needs/demands of foster kids who really needed intense one on one 'parenting' took center stage and all the attention away from the natural needs of the remainder of the family. people neglected their own needs/jobs/spouses/bio kids for a great reason but those needs/jobs/spouses/bio kids suffered in the long run (i heard plenty of adults whose bio parents were foster parents say that they would NEVER have both bio kids and foster kids, they weren't adverse to fostering but it wasn't something that if they had bio kids they would want to bring into the mix).

 

[Nancyg56]

This girl is almost 20 years old, has 2 jobs yet doesn't know how make a sandwich, and is incapable of figuring it out without the OP to teach her? What does she do at her jobs, sit like a bump on a log?
She signed an LA fitness contract but doesn't have a bank account?
There are some things in the OP's posts that don't make much sense IMO. Those are just a few examples of things that make you go hmmm

I imagine there is a lot of history that is contributing to her situation, and while I am not sure how much is learned behavior, and how much is due to her cognitive development, I am pretty sure this is not an elaborate scheme to play the OP. I do wonder if her issues are more than the OP and her family are equipped to handle though.

In regards to her jobs, it is possible that someone trained her. The OP has not indicated that she cannot learn, but has stated that she must be taught. There are many job opportunities that are unskilled.

 

[dish rag]

Rather you believe the Bible or not, I always found this verse useful in my thinking ; Proverb 26;17 It's better to take hold of a mad dog by the ears than to take part in someone else's argument.

You are a smart man. Even someone who doesn't like the Bible would be wise to follow these words.

 

[Hikergirl]

I imagine there is a lot of history that is contributing to her situation, and while I am not sure how much is learned behavior, and how much is due to her cognitive development, I am pretty sure this is not an elaborate scheme to play the OP. I do wonder if her issues are more than the OP and her family are equipped to handle though.

In regards to her jobs, it is possible that someone trained her. The OP has not indicated that she cannot learn, but has stated that she must be taught. There are many job opportunities that are unskilled.

Based on what the OP shares and what she leaves out IMO this whole story smells fishy. You are free to believe what you want.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

These parents sound like horrible people and should probably be charged with theft.

 

[DopeyDame]

I know this has been said before, but I'm seeing *so* many red flags for RAD/traumatic childhood issues. Your example of food is yet another red flag - children from traumatic backgrounds often have major food control issues.
Regardless of what you think about the parents, YOU need to be aware of her background and how it should impact how you try to help her. If you do want to stay involved and take on a parental role in her life, you really need to read a lot about parenting adopted children and children with traumatic backgrounds. Your instincts built on your experiences with your own children really aren't relevant for this young woman.
There are probably support groups in your area and training available, if that's something you want to pursue - a local adoption agency may be able to point you in the right direction.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...achment-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20352939

 

[DopeyDame]

Also, I'm wondering if the OP has spoken to the parents at all since the girl moved in? Do they know where she is and that she's safe? They may offer some valuable perspective on the best way to truly help her.

 

[china mom]

Please do consider reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). As the parent of an internationally adopted child, I did a ton of research before my daughter came home. Although she did not suffer from RAD, there were things going on which made it necessary to parent her very differently than I parented my biological child. A good friend of mine (who I met on my adoption journey) has a daughter who does suffer from RAD - but in the mildest of ways.

Consider that her parents may be monsters or, may in fact, have developed parenting skills based on their daughter's psychological issues. Whether these skills/methods are right or wrong, there is a chance that they came about as a reaction to a very "hard to parent" child.

Children with RAD can be very manipulative. I have read more than one case study where children have accused adult males in the home of all sorts of horrific things in order to get what they wanted or even just to wreak havoc.

I think it is great that you are trying to help this young woman but don't try to do it alone. Get her help, talk to her parents, and most of all, make sure that your children are safe.

 

[Nancyg56]

Based on what the OP shares and what she leaves out IMO this whole story smells fishy. You are free to believe what you want.

I tend to take posts here at face value and seldom will read too much into them other than what has been posted. In this case, because there are so many unknowns, I am not willing to suggest that the OP is being scammed. I am willing to suggest that she consider the overall wellbeing of her family as they venture down this road.

 

[motherof5]

I think she should definitely go to the police, file a report and have the police escort her to her house to get her belongings.

I'm assuming the family didn't/don't realize you've been helping this girl. If they do know, or if they do find out, I'd be worried about your safety and your daughter's safety too based on some of the threats. You might want to consider talking to the police as well.

What a sad situation

 

[Gitts2008]

Perhaps I made the mistake of reaching out in my desperate state. I do apologize if I was not clear on something or misrepresented the situation. The last thing I need is self righteous selfish people that I allow to get to me. The world has enough. SO MOVE ALONG! If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. Happy Holidays! Hope you feel satisfied now that you have given everyone your opinion.

We are NOT asking for any money to live here. We asked that she pay for her personal needs. I applaud her for joining a gym to get her hurt out in a productive manner. Unfortunately, she was taken advantage of and it cost her some money.

I am just as much a problem with how I am handling this situation. I need to be tougher and not baby her. I need to not look at her like a victim. We did not realize what the situation was and now need to set rules, responsibilities, and goals. And, stick to them.

Yes this whole situation is taking a toll on me and my family. But we would never turn our back on someone who was in need and shame on those who would not at least try to help someone in need and send her back into an abusive home. I know that she is not lying to us. I am being manipulated but I am not being firm adult. I took care of my parents for years, so pushing myself beyond my limits is normal for me.

For those that care and won't be mean: After a therapy session and a great deal of talking, things are becoming clearer and us as a family are learning how to help. I need to set boundaries and stick with them. I need to stop treating her like a helpless victim. ie her grandmother stole her check again from the church....friend blamed herself for letting it happen again. I reassured friend that it was not her fault. DH reminded me that friend was instructed/reminded/guided to do direct deposit or speak with the church secretary about not giving her paycheck to family members and friend did not. So, YES! It was her fault. I did not see that bc I am so out of my mind with worry and exhaustion. The possibility of friend having a processing disorder is being discussed. She was able to attain a regular HS diploma without any special services, so there are lots of questions. Stress and Trauma disorders are also being discussed. Please remember I/we are not a doctor. Even though, I have worked with the mentally ill, I am not qualified to treat her. I must defer to those that are professionally trained. I must remind myself that I help when I am firm with expectations. I do not know how we raised a self sufficient bright capable child and I am a total softy when it comes to friend.

The military is still her plan. I have my doubts but having a goal that she set is a positive step. It is all about her processing her abuse, using coping skills, re-learning how to interact with people (not being afraid to speak and knowing that she can think {have her own ideas}). Laughter is not always a result of a positive response/reaction. She may have laughed, but it doesn't mean that she was laughing at me.

She still has not retrieved her belongings and after seeing her bedroom furniture out for the garbage men, I doubt that they still have her clothes and personal items. She still does not have her passport, BC or SS card. The police can not FORCE the parents to give them to her. We can't force her to get those items. She is afraid. She still loves her family despite everything.

I am just beyond tired and very sensitive. The last month has been a nightmare, exhausting, scary and emotional and I am letting people make me feel bad for trying so hard to be a good person. Thanks to those that made me not feel alone in this situation. (It is a small town and I can't share what is really going on bc it is not my place to air dirty laundry to those that know the family). I have read the suggestions and I yes I do need to be tougher. Yes, I do need to know more about her family life , but I can not ask her parents bc they have blocked me on social media, and knowing what they did to a child means they will lie to save themselves. I do not feel that reaching out to them now would do any good. If her family had concerns about their child, they know where she is and have not called us, reached out or said anything. But, they have said lies about friend which I have personally heard them say. I appreciate the insight into Russian adopted children. I have no doubt that her basic needs were not met as an infant.

Everyone have a magical holiday season and know that a bit of kindness goes along way and can make a difference.....

 

[ksjayhawks]

OP---I would suggest moving this young woman out of your house as soon as you can. There is a lot going on with her and her family and it is not a good situation. She needs more help that you are qualified to give her and you need to put the needs of your family first and protect them.
I would contact a safe house or legal aid group in your city and see what they can do to help. They should be able to assist her with getting replacement legal documents and finding housing.

 

[verleniahall]

in regards to herNBC, passport, so card - the police certainly CAN tell them to turn them over. She is over 18 and they legally belong to her

 

[wgeo]

OP - I hope you are able to enjoy some of the Holidays - what you are doing is incredibly hard and incredibly giving. It is very courageous of you to work so hard to help this friend, I imagine there are very very few places that would help her in the same way that you are. You are really a blessing to her.

It would be an amazing thing if safe houses and groups were easily and readily available to help people in these situations, unfortunately those are much harder to find and get accepted into than one would think.

 

[Colleen27]

OP---I would suggest moving this young woman out of your house as soon as you can. There is a lot going on with her and her family and it is not a good situation. She needs more help that you are qualified to give her and you need to put the needs of your family first and protect them.
I would contact a safe house or legal aid group in your city and see what they can do to help. They should be able to assist her with getting replacement legal documents and finding housing.

Have you ever actually tried to seek help for someone through those avenues? Because in our experience trying to get help for teens and young adults in similar situations, it is not readily available.

We currently have two "bonus" children in our home - my son's physically disabled SO whose family situation is so dysfunctional that he literally had nowhere to go after high school, and a 17yo friend who was kicked out of his home to make room for his pregnant sister and her kid (mom told him to go live with dad; dad's new wife told them both that he wasn't welcome). These are people that, in our area, fall through the cracks; D has been turned down for disability twice but has also lost two jobs due to physical limitations, and can get enough grant money to attend school but not to live on while he does, and J was staying in a friend's barn after CPS declined to get involved with someone so close to his 18th birthday (this week - he became homeless in Aug. and came to stay with us in Oct. when my son found out where he'd been crashing). My mother is a social worker who spent 40 years working for "the system" and even with her help, we've been unable to find any real alternatives for either of them. Shelters are short term, young adults without dependents aren't high priority for agencies with limited resources, and without formally being part of the foster care system, they're not eligible for the few programs that do address the transition from teen to adult for those without family support.

 

[starry_solo]

For the short term issues of getting her SS card, her BC, and passport, she doesn't need the ones her parents have.

She can get certified copies of her birth certificate from the county clerk (or whomever provides them). As long as she knows her birthdate, where she was born, and and parents' names (mothers maiden name), she can get.

OR. She can get it from the state department of vital statistics (or equivalent in your state). This is, of course, assuming she lives in the state where she was born (to go to county clerk).

For SS card, she can get it from the local social security office. Passport, she just has to fill out a form and say it's been lost or stolen so the old passport can be cancelled and a new one issued.

No idea how to solve the rest of the issues.

EDITED TO ADD: if she was adopted, she needs to complete the state's document requirements. The state in which she was adopted should have the new birth certificate that was issued after the adoption was completed.

 

[robinb]

Have you ever actually tried to seek help for someone through those avenues? Because in our experience trying to get help for teens and young adults in similar situations, it is not readily available.

We currently have two "bonus" children in our home - my son's physically disabled SO whose family situation is so dysfunctional that he literally had nowhere to go after high school, and a 17yo friend who was kicked out of his home to make room for his pregnant sister and her kid (mom told him to go live with dad; dad's new wife told them both that he wasn't welcome). These are people that, in our area, fall through the cracks; D has been turned down for disability twice but has also lost two jobs due to physical limitations, and can get enough grant money to attend school but not to live on while he does, and J was staying in a friend's barn after CPS declined to get involved with someone so close to his 18th birthday (this week - he became homeless in Aug. and came to stay with us in Oct. when my son found out where he'd been crashing). My mother is a social worker who spent 40 years working for "the system" and even with her help, we've been unable to find any real alternatives for either of them. Shelters are short term, young adults without dependents aren't high priority for agencies with limited resources, and without formally being part of the foster care system, they're not eligible for the few programs that do address the transition from teen to adult for those without family support.

Why I am not surprised that you have such a big heart?

 

[china mom]

For the short term issues of getting her SS card, her BC, and passport, she doesn't need the ones her parents have.

She can get certified copies of her birth certificate from the county clerk (or whomever provides them). As long as she knows her birthdate, where she was born, and and parents' names (mothers maiden name), she can get.

OR. She can get it from the state department of vital statistics (or equivalent in your state). This is, of course, assuming she lives in the state where she was born (to go to county clerk).

For SS card, she can get it from the local social security office. Passport, she just has to fill out a form and say it's been lost or stolen so the old passport can be cancelled and a new one issued.

No idea how to solve the rest of the issues.

EDITED TO ADD: if she was adopted, she needs to complete the state's document requirements. The state in which she was adopted should have the new birth certificate that was issued after the adoption was completed.

Only IF her parents readopted her once they came home or filed for a certificate of foreign birth. Depending on what type of visa she entered the country under, there may be no documents that are the equivalent of a US birth certificate.

We did file for a Certificate of Foreign birth for my daughter but only because her Chinese documents are impossible to reproduce should they become lost so we wanted something from the state. But, in my state, this is NOT a requirement.

What she needs to do is file a replevin action with the court and she need to do it before the documents disappear.

 

[DopeyDame]

For the short term issues of getting her SS card, her BC, and passport, she doesn't need the ones her parents have.

She can get certified copies of her birth certificate from the county clerk (or whomever provides them). As long as she knows her birthdate, where she was born, and and parents' names (mothers maiden name), she can get.

OR. She can get it from the state department of vital statistics (or equivalent in your state). This is, of course, assuming she lives in the state where she was born (to go to county clerk).

For SS card, she can get it from the local social security office. Passport, she just has to fill out a form and say it's been lost or stolen so the old passport can be cancelled and a new one issued.

No idea how to solve the rest of the issues.

EDITED TO ADD: if she was adopted, she needs to complete the state's document requirements. The state in which she was adopted should have the new birth certificate that was issued after the adoption was completed.

Unfortunately for children adopted internationally, it may not be that simple. It's a *really* good sign that she has a passport. I would make replacing that priority number 1, since it's the only easily accessible document that proves her citizenship.