What is going on with Disney parks?

[Remy is Up]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1230513192876617728

He’s not wrong....

Explain how increased costs should bring about a 8pm closure...

And the point is and the correlation is? Im not sure I follow because while the current status is no FPs available, that has no bearing day of. Last Friday I pulled ToT Twice, RnRC Twice, Smuggler Twice, SDD, TSM, and Star Tours day of for a friend. Prior to park opening there were very limited or zero FPs. The park hours have no bearing on the FP availability. if the park were open until 10, the Fps would still be gone and youd still have to work the app day of.
Disney doesnt limit the crowds for attendance ( Unless of overcrowd safety issues), so what are you wanting them to do? "lower" prices when people are paying what they are charging? Where in the business sense of things does that make sense? If you lower the prices you do realize the parks will be MORE crowded and adding a couple of hours of extra time will have absolutely ZERO bearing or effect.
The correct path is once you have established hours of business, you raise prices until you reach the point the number of guests diminishes to match the current income at higher prices. Its common practice business economics. Sometimes it is necessary to "thin the herd" and while that sounds mean,it is reality.

IT becomes what is a value to you and is individual to everyone. As Disney prices some people out, others will pay the higher prices and make up the difference allowing WDW to operate on specific hours and under specific budgets with less wiggle room in those budgets. They will create more options to increase revenue and continue the process. This isnt 1980 or even 2010. This is 2020 and the company is doing what is necessary to ensure profitable returns on investment for their stockholders.

 

[Alynw]

If Disney plan is to "thin the herd" their doing a piss poor job at it. I'm not buying into this theory one bit. For one, in order for this theory to actually work they would have to increase prices so high that literally 10's of 10's of thousands would have to stop going on a daily basis to have any affect. Sure the current increases might stop few thousand from coming but u need to stop about 20,000 per park per day to have even the slightest impact. Let's say this is Disney ultimate plan and they go ahead and double prices across the board, they dont just lose ticket sells, they lose parking, the lose hotel occupancy, lose dining, lose merchandise, lose everyday spending, not too mention the people that do still come and pay that price will also stop spending as much in the parks, this is just not realistic. Plus, if attendance did drop way down, so would everything else at Disney, the staff would get cut, multiple ride cars would not be running, so even though less people go it would still feel very busy from all the cuts Disney would make so the end result would remain the same. Disney is doing what every other business does, pushing the envelope on how much money they can possibly make without losing their customers.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

If the concern was actually crowding and not increasing revenue, there are more effective ways than raising prices, unless of course they did something insane like tripled them.

HOURS. More park hours. Let people spread themselves out throughout the day. Make it worthwhile for more people to take breaks and/or park hop without feeling like they’re not getting a full day in. Cut back on hard ticket events in favour of those being regular hours.

Disney is creating, or at least helping along, these crowd levels and then creating solutions that benefit them not the guest. Standard they’re a company out to make a profit, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean price increases are there to do us a favour.

 

[Remy is Up]

If the concern was actually crowding and not increasing revenue, there are more effective ways than raising prices, unless of course they did something insane like tripled them.

HOURS. More park hours. Let people spread themselves out throughout the day. Make it worthwhile for more people to take breaks and/or park hop without feeling like they’re not getting a full day in. Cut back on hard ticket events in favour of those being regular hours.

Disney is creating, or at least helping along, these crowd levels and then creating solutions they benefit them not the guest. Standard they’re a company out to make a profit, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean price increases are there to do us a favour.

Standard they’re a company out to make a profit, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean price increases are there to do us a favour.

It may be the "standard" but its the reality. The current state of the parks when it comes to crowds, after hours and special ticket events, park hours, etc is the reality and it isnt changing. It may change some as they continue to raise prices to increase revenue and find that "sweet spot" all companies look for.

Also reality and a harsh one, if you dont like crowds, dont like FP+ or learning to use the system ( Refresh), if you disagree with the direction they are going or have gone,,,stop going. Noone is twisting anyones arm and making them go. Disney provides an entertainment opportunity, nothing more nothing less. They are not obligated to make everyone happy because they never will. And if what they are providing isnt a value to you, then speak with the wallet and just stop going because all of the complaining and such on a message board just makes you unhappy and thats an awful way to live. Being unhappy about something you cant and never will control. Choose other destinations, change the way you approach Disney based on what they do provide you see as value, and act accordingly. Spend you money elsewhere and maybe enough people do and they get the message, maybe not. Maybe you get replaced by someone who will pay the prices they charge. But just because they have built an empire built on nostalgia and amazing films and parks, they dont owe any of us anything. We are not entitled to anything above and beyond what they provide and if it seems like its not worth it, just dont support and dont go. But for those who do find value and have no issues with direction, they will continue to go and there isnt anything wrong with that either. It is that individuals choice and no different from the person who chooses the opposite decides for themself.

 

[Alynw]

Not a very good business plan if Disney is raising cost to thin the herd but also building new hotels for the people their trying to get rid of. Let's see, how about we raise prices so less people come but we'll go ahead and build new hotels so the people that can still afford to come will have even more options.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Not a very good business plan if Disney is raising cost to thin the herd but also building new hotels for the people their trying to get rid of. Let's see, how about we raise prices so less people come but we'll go ahead and build new hotels so the people that can still afford to come will have even more options.

i dont think thats what they're trying to do. I think they're telling people that so that its another reason for them to justify spending that much on a vacation.

"Sure i'll pay more if that means it'll be less people in the parks and we can do more".

At the end of the day, Disney wants as many people in those parks and hotels for the highest price possible.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Standard they’re a company out to make a profit, blah blah blah, but that doesn’t mean price increases are there to do us a favour.

It may be the "standard" but its the reality. The current state of the parks when it comes to crowds, after hours and special ticket events, park hours, etc is the reality and it isnt changing. It may change some as they continue to raise prices to increase revenue and find that "sweet spot" all companies look for.

Also reality and a harsh one, if you dont like crowds, dont like FP+ or learning to use the system ( Refresh), if you disagree with the direction they are going or have gone,,,stop going. Noone is twisting anyones arm and making them go. Disney provides an entertainment opportunity, nothing more nothing less. They are not obligated to make everyone happy because they never will. And if what they are providing isnt a value to you, then speak with the wallet and just stop going because all of the complaining and such on a message board just makes you unhappy and thats an awful way to live. Being unhappy about something you cant and never will control. Choose other destinations, change the way you approach Disney based on what they do provide you see as value, and act accordingly. Spend you money elsewhere and maybe enough people do and they get the message, maybe not. Maybe you get replaced by someone who will pay the prices they charge. But just because they have built an empire built on nostalgia and amazing films and parks, they dont owe any of us anything. We are not entitled to anything above and beyond what they provide and if it seems like its not worth it, just dont support and dont go. But for those who do find value and have no issues with direction, they will continue to go and there isnt anything wrong with that either. It is that individuals choice and no different from the person who chooses the opposite decides for themself.

Don’t like it don’t go is way too simplistic. For any of us who care enough to even be on these boards in the first place, there’s a lot of room between WDW is perfect exactly the way it is, and I am so angry I’m not going back. Some of us do hit that end of the spectrum, but I would think most live in the middle.

It should go without saying you can find fault and disappointment in certain aspects without tossing out the entire vacation at a place you love.

 

[clarker99]

Not a very good business plan if Disney is raising cost to thin the herd but also building new hotels for the people their trying to get rid of. Let's see, how about we raise prices so less people come but we'll go ahead and build new hotels so the people that can still afford to come will have even more options.

They tore down a chunk of CBR and built Riviera (DVC). Poly, Copper Creek and Grand Fla all re-purposed existing rooms from cash side to DVC. When was the last all cash hotel built? Somewhere in this thread (I tried to find it) a person showed how there is less hotel room nights available than 5 or 10 yrs ago (sorry dont recall exactly). So, Disney has constrained the supply of cash rooms by focusing on DVC.

He/she also showed that attendance is mostly flat over last few years. (Based on Disney's 2018 annual report WDW seen ~4% increase in attendance so I am not sure the long term trend). Leads me to believe cash room demand is constant or even up a little, while cash room supply is down. This is what is causing prices to go up at the higher end resorts like Poly, Grand Fla etc. As the higher end resorts 'price people out', this increases demand for the mods and values, pushing their prices higher.

DVC has always had higher occupancy rates than cash. Instead of lowering cash room prices to increase occupancy they have chosen to remove supply instead. They are leaning on the DVC side to continue filling the rooms.

 

[Firebird060]

Hey if Disney was to bring back the 24 hour Disney day I would prob be willing to pay 300 or 400 plus for that day only. If anyone who is a higher up at Disney is reading this and wants to pitch this Idea to the powers that be please do so. LOL

 

[Alynw]

They tore down a chunk of CBR and built Riviera (DVC). Poly, Copper Creek and Grand Fla all re-purposed existing rooms from cash side to DVC. When was the last all cash hotel built? Somewhere in this thread (I tried to find it) a person showed how there is less hotel room nights available than 5 or 10 yrs ago (sorry dont recall exactly). So, Disney has constrained the supply of cash rooms by focusing on DVC.

He/she also showed that attendance is mostly flat over last few years. (Based on Disney's 2018 annual report WDW seen ~4% increase in attendance so I am not sure the long term trend). Leads me to believe cash room demand is constant or even up a little, while cash room supply is down. This is what is causing prices to go up at the higher end resorts like Poly, Grand Fla etc. As the higher end resorts 'price people out', this increases demand for the mods and values, pushing their prices higher.

DVC has always had higher occupancy rates than cash. Instead of lowering cash room prices to increase occupancy they have chosen to remove supply instead. They are leaning on the DVC side to continue filling the rooms.

I was being sarcastic towards the "thinning the herd" theory..lol. I dont believe Disney price increases are Disney plan to price out people in hopes that less people come to wdw so the ones that do can have a better experience. What you stated sounds legit and actually makes sense. I personally believe price increases are to cover cost of doing business, upgrading the parks, expanding the parks, added daily operating costs, etc.

 

[YesterDark]

I'll have to go back later, but I just skipped like 8 pages. Good thread.

My two cents are essentially prices in hotels are rising like crazy because Disney is playing games with rack rates and discounted pricing. My trip in a month was priced out at rack rate lower than the current (or previously discounted) discounted rate. I just booked it back in August. That's why you see some wild fluctuation in pricing. I think also with the 50th, you're getting all sorts of availability/demand craziness.

I'll be curious to see how pricing etc goes in '22.

Disney needs to build more moderate resorts but I doubt they will.

Personally I think they need to make more rooms that sleep 5 or 6. I'll end up having to purchase an AKL resale for 35k just for the two bedroom villa.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Personally I think they need to make more rooms that sleep 5 or 6.

The downside is I highly doubt they would make this in the affordable category. The pricepoint would start high and just go up from there.

For Disney they know have the DVC product so there's less incentive.

 

[YesterDark]

The downside is I highly doubt they would make this in the affordable category. The pricepoint would start high and just go up from there.

For Disney they know have the DVC product so there's less incentive.

I've typically have taken my mother in our trips (Wife and I, Mom, and a 7 4 and 2 yo) and once my youngest is 3, that 5th sleeper option is gone. Then it'll be DVC rental or Family Suites at AoA or the Cabins. The wife and I are not fans of the AoA style and would prefer more moderate accommodations. I like the idea of the Cabins but I'm not sure I want to rent two golf carts and stay in the woods all week (which any other vacation would be fine for me).

My sister is DVC and we stayed at a 2Brm at OKW in '15 and it was pretty nice.

That being said, I'd like to see more options other than an expensive Value Resort and a cabin in the woods and an expensive two bedroom suite at a deluxe/dvc resort. Or gamble on getting two adjoining rooms anywhere else.

Ooooooor we burst the bubble and stay offsite.

 

[clarker99]

I've typically have taken my mother in our trips (Wife and I, Mom, and a 7 4 and 2 yo) and once my youngest is 3, that 5th sleeper option is gone. Then it'll be DVC rental or Family Suites at AoA or the Cabins. The wife and I are not fans of the AoA style and would prefer more moderate accommodations. I like the idea of the Cabins but I'm not sure I want to rent two golf carts and stay in the woods all week (which any other vacation would be fine for me).

My sister is DVC and we stayed at a 2Brm at OKW in '15 and it was pretty nice.

That being said, I'd like to see more options other than an expensive Value Resort and a cabin in the woods and an expensive two bedroom suite at a deluxe/dvc resort. Or gamble on getting two adjoining rooms anywhere else.

Ooooooor we burst the bubble and stay offsite.

It is almost like Disney/DVC knows what it is doing? Maybe your mom would buy in with you guys?

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Because it was mentioned before, I’ve been periodically checking DHS for same day FP for 2 people since the 02/19 switch. It’s been pretty terrible. The only constant has been Muppets. I just refreshed for about 5 mins straight and saw lots of Muppets (an hour away), voyage of the little mermaid every once in a while, and Frozen every once in a while. Nothing else, not once.

There is more to it than just gaming the FP system and knowing what you’re doing, granted I didn’t hit up a drop time and could have tried for longer. But those are pretty poor results for 5 mins of checking in my experience. I do know how to game the system, and have before with a lot of success. DHS is particularly bad right now. I hope MMRR can take off more pressure than it adds.

 

[Mome Rath]

Just pulled up AS2, Frozen, Muppets, little mermaid, fantasmic, refresh and Indiana Jones is there... I think that's the point; there are FP's available if you want to refresh for them, and it's about 5pm in the parks. I was making the point that Josh reporting there was no FP availability for "the next day" to be a bit misleading especially for newbies to the parks. If someone saw that who was planning a trip was probably freaking out a bit, and misses the point of how to get the FP's you want. Yes, FP can be frustrating but there is plenty of opportunity if you know the in's and out's.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Just pulled up AS2, Frozen, Muppets, little mermaid, fantasmic, refresh and Indiana Jones is there... I think that's the point; there are FP's available if you want to refresh for them, and it's about 5pm in the parks. I was making the point that Josh reporting there was no FP availability for "the next day" to be a bit misleading especially for newbies to the parks. If someone saw that who was planning a trip was probably freaking out a bit, and misses the point of how to get the FP's you want. Yes, FP can be frustrating but there is plenty of opportunity if you know the in's and out's.

I was refreshing for them just now and saw 3 attractions over and over. Muppets (muppets!) an hour away give or take, frozen every 10 refreshes or so, mermaid slightly more often.

Im a group of 2 for refreshing purposes. DHS is challenging and requires luck on top of knowing what you’re doing and being willing to do it. And TBH I don’t consider any of those attractions you mentioned a great or even good FP snag. Shows don’t really need them for the most part at any park, and AS2 is AS2 lol.

With the crowds RotR brings in (and keeps in) DHS could really use more people eater type attractions.

ETA: For those refreshing for the coveted Muppets FP, I am happy to report I have now seen a few with immediate return.

 

[Mome Rath]

Again, though, it's now 5:40pm in the park. Getting any one of the FP's I mentioned being able to snag in 2 minutes of refreshing is a far cry from Josh saying there's no FP's the next day for DHS and acting like that just the way it is. It gives an entirely false perception to newbies and is basically hyperbole via image. There's many times you can snap an unusual screen cap and act like that tells you something, when in reality it's not helping people plan properly so it serves no useful purpose.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Again, though, it's now 5:40pm in the park. Getting any one of the FP's I mentioned being able to snag in 2 minutes of refreshing is a far cry from Josh saying there's no FP's the next day for DHS and acting like that just the way it is. It gives an entirely false perception to newbies and is basically hyperbole via image. There's many times you can snap an unusual screen cap and act like that tells you something, when in reality it's not helping people plan properly so it serves no useful purpose.

What you’re implying is also not true though.

It isn’t fact that the FP are there for the taking as long as you’re willing to refresh. I literally saw the same 3 fairly useless FP in different variations at the same time you found slightly more success. Even yours are still what I would consider “nothing” (not literally nothing, but nothing worthwhile) in DHS, as they’re not all that useful even during very heavy crowds.

Again, I refreshed for much longer than 2 minutes and came up unsuccessful. Last trip we looped through TSMM, ToT, and RnRC as much as our hearts desired with near immediate access with less effort than I put in today.

 

[disneygirlsng]

Because it was mentioned before, I’ve been periodically checking DHS for same day FP for 2 people since the 02/19 switch. It’s been pretty terrible. The only constant has been Muppets. I just refreshed for about 5 mins straight and saw lots of Muppets (an hour away), voyage of the little mermaid every once in a while, and Frozen every once in a while. Nothing else, not once.

There is more to it than just gaming the FP system and knowing what you’re doing, granted I didn’t hit up a drop time and could have tried for longer. But those are pretty poor results for 5 mins of checking in my experience. I do know how to game the system, and have before with a lot of success. DHS is particularly bad right now. I hope MMRR can take off more pressure than it adds.

I was able to get Slinky, AS2, and TSM on Friday for 3 with little effort. MFSR also popped up many times throughout the day. We already had RnR and ToT prebooked, but I saw those pop up lots throughout the day as well.