When do you think the border will reopen?

[wdwmom3]

I did, it was last updated August 12. Did you read it? Because this quote:



doesn't do your position any favors. Was their approach perfect? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are we all likely to wind up with the same fatality rate in the end unless a vaccine appears first? Once again maybe?



You neither have to go on the bus nor go to work. You want to do those things for your own reasons. If your workplace requires masks then they should be worn, same as any other PPE it requires. If the transit authority requires riders to wear masks then they should.

My point is still that you should primarily worry about your own behaviors and not others. I think it stands.

nobody needs to go to work or ride the bus? Seriously?

I’m doing something wrong I guess. I mean those greedy kids don’t need to eat right

 

[damo]

My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading. Why not just err on the side of caution? If it does help, then great. If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc. Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals? I just don't get it. If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part. I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.

 

[wdwmom3]

My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading. Why not just err on the side of caution? If it does help, then great. If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc. Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals? I just don't get it. If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part. I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.

well now see you are talking common sense. I’m learning a lot of people lack this . I don’t get it either.

 

[isabellea]

My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading. Why not just err on the side of caution? If it does help, then great. If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc. Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals? I just don't get it. If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part. I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.

Any other province than Quebec that has a provincial mask mandate? I have to say that while many complain, I haven't seen anyone in weeks not wearing a mask indoor. Yes some are below the nose but even those are a minority. Here the mandate is for kids 10 yo and older but again, rarely see younger kids (3 and over) not wearing one even though they are allowed not to. Also, no exemption fake badges since there are no exemption allowed to my knowledge. I've even seen masks given to patients on oxygen at the hospital where I work. Now we have to crackdown on big private parties.

 

[wdwmom3]

Any other province than Quebec that has a provincial mask mandate? I have to say that while many complain, I haven't seen anyone in weeks not wearing a mask indoor. Yes some are below the nose but even those are a minority. Here the mandate is for kids 10 yo and older but again, rarely see younger kids (3 and over) not wearing one even though they are allowed not to. Also, no exemption fake badges since there are no exemption allowed to my knowledge. I've even seen masks given to patients on oxygen at the hospital where I work. Now we have to crackdown on big private parties.

there is no provincial mandate in Ontario but many regions have implemented their own. I keep seeing people with them under their nose. My daughter works in retail and they have people at the door, and around the store that remind people they are required to wear a mask and wear it properly. She’s had groups of women shopping that claim they all have asthma and can’t wear one . And she’s gotten attitude when she reminds people they need to cover their nose.

 

[Donald - my hero]

My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading. Why not just err on the side of caution? If it does help, then great. If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc. Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals? I just don't get it. If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part. I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.

*** WARNING, OMG I've been rather verbose and a tad opinionated in this post, just keep scrolling if you get bored ***
I read an article what must have been months ago at this point (gawd time's moving on a different schedule now isn't it?!?!) that gave and interesting perspective into this mindset that resonated with me, I'll see if i can find a link to it later. The gist of the article was that while we NOW see all the things you mentioned as status quo and accepted, when they were all introduced they caused similar reactions and backlash.
Examples:
Why do i need to wear a seatbelt now? "My driving habits haven't changed and I've never worn one, my car doesn't even have them in the back seat" It took until we had our first child and he would pipe up to my dad "you have to make it click before we can drive Papa" that my dad would wear a seatbelt. Until that point he NEVER wore it unless he saw a cop and then he would loop it with his thumb, hold it across his chest and then immediately drop it once he'd passed.

Why do I need to wear a helmet now? My parents didn't make me wear one and I'm fine! It's just a money grab created by big companies and helicopter parents. My kid just needs to toughen up!

Why can't I drink and drive? I've never had an accident before because I don't drink "that much"

Why can't i eat a diet of crap? I've always eaten or drank "insert whatever form of crap they think is fine" and the government can't make me change, I don't need people telling me what to do.

Basically it boils down to "I've never had trouble before, it's other people that are the problem and you can't apply that to my behaviours" We're creatures of habit and change is hard! How many of you have either heard parents/grandparents (or depending on your age, yourself) declare "I'm never getting rid of my wall phone, I don't need or want a cell phone!"

THESE is my own thoughts now - we have become more & more segmented in our lives. We (i'm talking about Canadians now because i refuse to throw shade on others!) no longer live in combined family households, we rarely know anyone on our streets beyond the next door neighbours because most of us don't work where we live so once we come home, we stay home. Our lives have become (even before the lockdowns) more introverted, Netflix has replaced going out to movies because it's easier & cheaper, stores had already started suffering from an increase in online shopping, things like UBER Eats & Skip the Dishes already existed because you can order food and eat in your jammies while watching Netflix. We've slowly become more tied to our houses and smaller circles of immediate families & friends. Because of this we don't feel a connection to others that created the fostered the "village" community where everyone cares for everyone else.
I have an annoyingly strong justice based streak that forces me to see the inequities in our lives and because of that I will follow rules before they become rules! I do things that level the playing field, I live my life by the "golden rule" of treating others as i want to be treated (bites me in the butt too often when that doesn't happen and I get hurt) It sounds like you live by the same values of "i would rather do what might help that find out later I was part of the problem"

None of this is an excuse for the behaviours that we are witnessing but rather a possible explanation that has allowed me to find a tiny bit of peace. Am I still pissed that others either don't wear masks or wear them correctly, and when others ignore the need to follow social distancing rules (and continue to have large gatherings!)?? OH HELL YES! But i've stopped trying to change anyone's habits other than my own.

 

[bcwife76]

Official announcement came down this morning, Canada/US border closed until at least Oct 21 2020.

 

[hdrolfe]

Well. I finally called about my December Carnival cruise. The PIF date is the 22nd so I wanted to know my options. I was able to move the deposit to a new cruise with no fees or anything. So I have a back to back now booked for late April 2023. And if we can't travel by then I dont even want to think about that.

I am glad they extended the closure another month but it is so strange that after all this time it is starting to feel normal, like this is life now. When it all started it was going to be so temporary and now, really isn't.

 

[Sue M]

Back in the early 1970s, Weekend Magazine had a weekly contest, where readers were encouraged to compose and submit limericks about a different city each week. I still remember the winning entry about Vancouver:

It rains too much in Vancouver.
It rains too much in Vancouver.
It rains in Vancouver.
It rains in Vancouver.
It rains too much in Vancouver.

I've only stayed overnight in Vancouver once (in January 2018 when we flew there for my daughter's Disney interview) and it rained non-stop the entire 36 hours we were there. But still preferable to Edmonton snow and ice, I must admit.

Yes,its true lol. Thats why it’s so green here. It’s raining today, washing some of the smoke from the air. But I think last time it rained was in July? Most of the time it doesn’t rain much in warm months.
I‘ll take it, better than shoveling and sub zero temps!
My husband had an aunt who lived in Edmonton who always came here for Christmas time. She always exclaimed how green it is here even in winter.

 

[Sue M]

Official announcement came down this morning, Canada/US border closed until at least Oct 21 2020.

Not surprised. Waiting to hear about Nov. still haven’t canceled trip. In my heart I feel it will continue but I’m not loosing anything by waiting. And if I cancel then find out it opens ugh! Never had to cancel a trip ever, now one canceled in Aug, and possibly next one too

 

[Sue M]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.

Copied from The Lancet:
Importantly, despite the low infection rate, the death rates in Sweden are considerably higher than those of its neighbouring countries and approximately 30 countries around the world that enforced lockdown rapidly and now are making use of testing, tracing, isolation, and masks to control the disease. The Swedish experiment has failed, but what is the cost? The death rate is much higher in countries (1) that delayed lockdown, (2) where posters calling for an approach like Sweden's arguably led to people in these countries (eg, Brazil and the USA) attempting to follow the Swedish approach to the pandemic, and (3) that were released from lockdown early by their government. It is indeed difficult to calculate, but the increased death toll from following advice from Giesecke and the Public Health Agency of Sweden is going to be substantial around the world. The attempt to reach herd immunity, and the public promotion of herd immunity to others, has cost many lives.

 

[Madame]

Copied from The Lancet:
Importantly, despite the low infection rate, the death rates in Sweden are considerably higher than those of its neighbouring countries and approximately 30 countries around the world that enforced lockdown rapidly and now are making use of testing, tracing, isolation, and masks to control the disease. The Swedish experiment has failed, but what is the cost? The death rate is much higher in countries (1) that delayed lockdown, (2) where posters calling for an approach like Sweden's arguably led to people in these countries (eg, Brazil and the USA) attempting to follow the Swedish approach to the pandemic, and (3) that were released from lockdown early by their government. It is indeed difficult to calculate, but the increased death toll from following advice from Giesecke and the Public Health Agency of Sweden is going to be substantial around the world. The attempt to reach herd immunity, and the public promotion of herd immunity to others, has cost many lives.

Canadian Epidemiologist

 

[ccudmore]

If people don’t want a “Nanny State” they shouldn’t act like babies.

 

[wdwmom3]

If people don’t want a “Nanny State” they shouldn’t act like babies.

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[Sue M]

Canadian Epidemiologist
View attachment 527035

From BBC:
More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
"Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.

Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.

 

[Madame]

From BBC:
More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
"Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.

Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.

Yes. It gets thrown around as an example of why restrictions aren’t necessary, when in reality it is an abject lesson of the opposite.

 

[Jrb1979]

From BBC:
More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
"Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.

Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.

A big one is no public gatherings of over 50 are allowed and visiting Grandma and Grandpa in long term care homes are banned. Its why I don't understand the love for how Sweden handled this.

 

[Reepicheep]

Thought I'd do another brief comparison between Canada and the US RE: COVID cases. Unfortunately, it appears that the daily number of new cases in Canada has roughly tripled during the month of September. I assume this is primarily due to schools and universities reopening (ASIDE: as of Monday, 81 Alberta schools have reported outbreaks). I won't be surprised if parts of Canada introduce new safety protocols over the next few weeks.

Below is a comparison between the US and Canada using several criteria. The statistics are for yesterday (Sept 22) and are seven day moving averages. The number in RED gives an indication of how much worse the situation is in the US than in Canada, after taking into account the 8.8x difference in our populations.

12x - daily deaths (735 vs. 7)
4x - daily new cases (41,105 vs. 1,123)
27x - total active cases (2,546,356 vs. 10,525)

I think the statistics for Canada are fairly reliable, but that it is likely that the US is greatly underestimating the number of new cases. Clearly, the situation in the US is at least 10x worse than in Canada, so realistically I can't see the border reopening until a vaccine is available. I'm hoping we can all plan on returning to Disneyland and Disney World by next summer, but at this point I think the odds are against it.

Not only do we need a vaccine, we need the majority of people to take it. The latest statistics I have seen indicate that only half of Americans plan on taking a vaccine once it is available, and I'm not sure if Canada would agree to open the border under those circumstances.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Thought I'd do another brief comparison between Canada and the US RE: COVID cases. Unfortunately, it appears that the daily number of new cases in Canada has roughly tripled during the month of September. I assume this is primarily due to schools and universities reopening (ASIDE: as of Monday, 81 Alberta schools have reported outbreaks). I won't be surprised if parts of Canada introduce new safety protocols over the next few weeks.

I thought the majority of the increases have to do with 20-40 somethings partying and not abiding by the group limits? Yes, schools have been been affected, but not the major cause of the increases.

 

[Reepicheep]

I thought the majority of the increases have to do with 20-40 somethings partying and not abiding by the group limits? Yes, schools have been been affected, but not the major cause of the increases.

Yes, I agree that partying by the young folk is certainly part of our problem. To an extent, this would tie in with students returning to university.

I just did a google search to see if I could find a definitive reason for the increase in cases in Canada, but I didn't find anything.