Would you be honest? Reference

Lilacs4Me

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
I am a Exec VP and coach of a youth sports league where we use high school kids as Jr./demo coaches to the kids. This is a volunteer position that requires about 10 hours a week dedication for a minimum of 3 1/2 months. We have our share of kids who are "all in" and dedicated, and sometimes a few duds....kids who thought it sounded fun but didnt realize the time commitment, etc.

One of my "duds" emailed me the other day asking if i would be a reference for her - she is headed to college this fall and is hoping to work in the child care center on her campus. She's a sweet girl, but really! She honestly was terrible as a Jr. Coach.

She didn't show up to most of the practices, never came to the games esp if they were away games, and didn't show up for the end of year party or help with anything else during the season. She basically threw together a plan the week before the biggest team competition of the season and made it to a Saturday practice that we scheduled based on her promise that she would be there.

Her communication with her adult coach sucked (not that *that* was totally her fault, by any means!), she refused to take her own team because she wanted to jr coach with her BFF, even though we asked them, as the seniors, to each take the lead role of separate teams, and it took until the last possible minute and me threatening her she wouldn't be registered with the league to finally get her paperwork.

My 3 Sophomore coaches were amazing, each leading a team when this girl refused. They were there whenever we needed them, and went above and beyond for the girls on their team. I wrote a very complimentary, glowing reference for one of those girls for a job this past winter. So I'm not opposed to helping and singing their praises!

WWYD? Just write a basic reference and leave it at that, or respond back to her with the reasons why I don't feel I would be a good choice to give her a positive reference? Or just give her my contact info and be honest with the employer if/when they ever call?

ETA: many responders are concerned that this girl didn't understand the expectations of the volunteer position before committing or during the season. We do our best to outline exactly what we need from our volunteers when they sign up, and I can assure you, she knew what was expected.
 
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I am a Exec VP and coach of a youth sports league where we use high school kids as Jr./demo coaches to the kids. This is a volunteer position that requires about 10 hours a week dedication for a minimum of 3 1/2 months. We have our share of kids who are "all in" and dedicated, and sometimes a few duds....kids who thought it sounded fun but didnt realize the time commitment, etc.

One of my "duds" emailed me the other day asking if i would be a reference for her - she is headed to college this fall and is hoping to work in the child care center on her campus. She's a sweet girl, but really! She honestly was terrible as a Jr. Coach.

She didn't show up to most of the practices, never came to the games esp if they were away games, and didn't show up for the end of year party or help with anything else during the season. She basically threw together a plan the week before the biggest team competition of the season and made it to a Saturday practice that we scheduled based on her promise that she would be there.

Her communication with her adult coach sucked (not that *that* was totally her fault, by any means!), she refused to take her own team because she wanted to jr coach with her BFF, even though we asked them, as the seniors, to each take the lead role of separate teams, and it took until the last possible minute and me threatening her she wouldn't be registered with the league to finally get her paperwork.

My 3 Sophomore coaches were amazing, each leading a team when this girl refused. They were there whenever we needed them, and went above and beyond for the girls on their team. I wrote a very complimentary, glowing reference for one of those girls for a job this past winter. So I'm not opposed to helping and singing their praises!

WWYD? Just write a basic reference and leave it at that, or respond back to her with the reasons why I don't feel I would be a good choice to give her a positive reference? Or just give her my contact info and be honest with the employer if/when they ever call?

She doesn't sound like a sweet girl to me. Tell her the truth.
 
I can't speak to volunteer organizations and references. I was on a Little League board for 8 years and was never asked.
Out in the working world, at my place and my wife's, we are prohibited from giving references for anyone we worked with.
All calls go to HR. And now at my place, corporate has hired an outside company to handle that. That company only has information on your salary, and when you worked for the company. And even then, they will only answer yes and no to questions. So the person calling has to have the salary information and time of employment information, the outside firm will only confirm, or deny if it is correct.

I think I would just tell her you aren't comfortable being a reference.
 


Nope. No reference. I would explain to her that any reference you gave her would have to be honest, which wouldn't probably be helpful for her application. Did anybody ever review her actual performance with her during the season? Sounds like she was pretty unaware of what a lousy job she was doing. I've found that a BIG part of mentoring young people is close supervision and correction, to teach them what's expected and how to perform.
 
Nope. No reference. I would explain to her that any reference you gave her would have to be honest, which wouldn't probably be helpful for her application. Did anybody ever review her actual performance with her during the season? Sounds like she was pretty unaware of what a lousy job she was doing. I've found that a BIG part of mentoring young people is close supervision and correction, to teach them what's expected and how to perform.

All very good points.
 


I'd would sit down with her and be kind and just say I cant give you a good reference for XYZ reasons. I wouldn't send in a bad reference you said her adult coach wasn't much of a help. So I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.
 
Nope. No reference. I would explain to her that any reference you gave her would have to be honest, which wouldn't probably be helpful for her application. Did anybody ever review her actual performance with her during the season? Sounds like she was pretty unaware of what a lousy job she was doing. I've found that a BIG part of mentoring young people is close supervision and correction, to teach them what's expected and how to perform.
Of course we did. (We, meaning myself, my director of coaches, and the head coach of her particular team)

BUT it's a volunteer position, and if a partying after homecoming, then sleeping till noon the next day was more important to her than making it to her team's 9am game 30 minutes away was more important, there wasn't much I could do.

I wasn't paying her, so really, not much recourse other than just not using her again. Or not supplying a good reference, right?

She turned 18 during the season. My 15 year olds were more dependable than she was.
 
I have had less than stellar students ask for references and I have still written them. They may not be the lengthy glowing kind, but I always think they deserve a shot somewhere else. Maybe they didn't like my team/class/club? Maybe they didn't like me? Maybe it was a tough year? Who knows! But I want to give them a chance to be either someone else's star or someone else's problem.
 
If you wouldn't feel right giving her a positive review (which it appears she hasn't earned), I would tell her I was honored that she asked me, but she should probably ask someone else. I'd just leave it at that. You don't really have to explain your reason for declining to her.
 
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I've had to write a number of references in the past. I think in this case it would be best to decline.
 
I've been asked to write several reference letters. Only once have I declined. I told the person that I could provide an honest letter based on my experience with her, but it would be better for her to seek out someone who could offer more positive insights. I definitely would never sign my name on a letter that wasn't honest.
 
If you wouldn't feel right giving her a positive review (which it appears she hasn't earned), I would tell her I was honored that she asked me, but she should probably ask someone else. I'd just leave it at that. You don't really have to explain your reason for declining to her.
I agree... unless she asks Why, then I'd put that positive spin on it and perhaps she will be better prepared for her next position volunteered or not.
I personally think ur doing her a favor by explaining the reason.
 
I would decline, but professionally, I've always been prohibited from doing so...much like TVguy and now that I've been consulting for years, I just won't. Someone could be great in one position and horrible in the next. I'm just not interested. I've only broken this for a friend who is a member of the diplomatic corps.
 
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This is a volunteer position that requires about 10 hours a week dedication for a minimum of 3 1/2 months.

Did anybody ever review her actual performance with her during the season? Sounds like she was pretty unaware of what a lousy job she was doing. I've found that a BIG part of mentoring young people is close supervision and correction, to teach them what's expected and how to perform.

:thumbsup2

BUT it's a volunteer position, and if a partying after homecoming, then sleeping till noon the next day was more important to her than making it to her team's 9am game 30 minutes away was more important, there wasn't much I could do.

I wasn't paying her, so really, not much recourse other than just not using her again. Or not supplying a good reference, right?


There's part of the problem right there. Your definition of "volunteer." In your OP you say this volunteer position requires certain criteria. But, then you don't back it up and hold her to that requirement, as, being a volunteer and not being paid, you CAN'T hold her to the criteria.

Sorry, many volunteer positions don't operate undee that kind of thought process. Many organizations depend on people showing up & committing, regardless of pay. You CAN ask and require people uphold a certain standard rules & requirements of being responsible and committing to sign up for shifts or a certain duration, showing up on time. Having the integrity to honor their word to come in when they say they will and staying for the whole time, doing the required work assigned. And if one cannot adhere to these rules and expectations, that this isn't the right "volunteer" kind of job for them and their needs, and they need to communicate to you, drop out of the program and find something more suited to their idea and amount of commitment (or not) for volunteerism.

There are whole organizations that would not be able to run and run successfully without structure and depending on people who agree to do what is expected of them when they commit. Rescue workers & first responders, like the Red Cross is 90% volunteers. If they need 30 volunteers to show up to a makeshift shelter and 20 volunteers don't show just because it's too cold and wet for them and they aren't being paid, that's not going to work.

Volunteer fire stations depend on the volunteer firefighters staying the whole shift and not going home 2 hours early as they are bored and they have something better to do.

It doesn't matter that YOUR organization is a youth sports league. You set up a volunteer system with certain responsibilities, expectation and level of commitment for the whole season. 3 of your sophomore coaches were amazing, so you did get that expectation across to some/most of them. I think you may have needed to really make the requirements known to all at the beginning, so they know the first day they all show up and can realize then, that this "volunteer" assignment is more than what they thought it would be and it isn't a good fit for them.

It may be that this girl thought she could just fluff her way through, drop in & out and only do what she wanted, when she wanted. Call it a day and then get the recommendation for college, which is probably why she "volunteered" in the first place. Make it clear next season, at the start, that someone who performs as she did, (you mention you get a few duds each year,) isn't going to get a recommendation. And that their work will be periodically evaluated so adjustments (on both ends) can be made throughout the season. You have a right to drop a volunteer from the program and replace her if they aren't doing what they committed to do and are continually a let down. It doesn't matter if it's a paid position or not. You need volunteers to fill certain slots and to show up and do the work when they say they will.

If she needed a volunteer position where she could come & go as she pleased, do as little work as she pleases, and only if she was able to work with her BFF, then she should have kindly been told to find that kind of volunteer project elsewhere. There are volunteer opportunities like that. They are just happy when people show up whenever and do whatever work they can or want to. They may have been able to give her a glowing recommendation for just showing up now and then, which you can't (and shouldn't) write for her.

If you write a good recommendation for this girl, then the ones you write for the girls who do deserve it, aren't worth the paper they are written on. And your word & recommendation isn't of any real value.
 
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I would decline writing a reference and if she asked why, I would be honest. No way would I write one that wasn't truthful and the truth isn't going to help her get the job she wants.
 
Nope. No reference. I would explain to her that any reference you gave her would have to be honest, which wouldn't probably be helpful for her application. Did anybody ever review her actual performance with her during the season? Sounds like she was pretty unaware of what a lousy job she was doing. I've found that a BIG part of mentoring young people is close supervision and correction, to teach them what's expected and how to perform.

This exactly, was she told she wasn't meeting acceptable standards? Or will this come as a surprise to her?
I would either write a very basic reference, just confirming that she volunteered from x date to x date or I would decline.
 

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