dianeschlicht
<font color=blue>DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Hon
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2000
Let us know when/if you get the refund. I hope it comes through but I am still skeptical.
I'm with Dean on this one. I'll believe it when you see the money.
Let us know when/if you get the refund. I hope it comes through but I am still skeptical.
We even met a couple last month who have been owners since OKW opened and they didn't know what banking and borrowing was.
You might want to rethink this example of intent. I'm sure you didn't mean to say there is such a thing as unintentional rape. The fact that a crime is unreported has nothing to do with the intent of the criminal. Rape is like armed robbery - the intent is quite obvious.
Actually, I think if you go back and read my response, you'll see that I quoted classic indicators of criminal intent in fraud cases (course of conduct, concealment, deceipt, multiple victims, etc.). There are many others, but I didn't want to get into a tedious discussion of fraud investigation.
To Scrappy Tink: Thanks for the information. Unfortunately I am all too aware of how an investigation should go.
To JimMIA: Thanks for the information on criminal intent. I totally understand the law aspect of the thresholds for determining a fraud vs a bad business deal. Come from a long line of law enforcement officers so I think I tend to be more suspicious. Plus I have seen and been part of determining fraud at a much higher level being an accountant. IT IRKS me when people aren't more suspicious and are openly trustworthly without caution. (Not the OP since there were not indicators prior to the rental)
Rachel, I am sitting on the edge of my seat.
Me too! I sent her an email the same day, asking for some idea of when I should expect the money... and of course, no response. Tuesday will make one week. But I'll continue to give her the benefit of the doubt and let the Paypal case stay open.
I have rented points the last two years and was just looking at renting today since we can't decide to buy DVC without seeing other resorts. Have only stayed at Beach Club. But now I am really scared! I have read the thread regarding red flags/precautions but it sounds like this deal was rather smooth until after the reservation was made. Really unsure about renting points for this year.
I would add to this list to search for the owner on the Orange County comptrollers website, assuming the owner you are dealing with owns a WDW DVC resort. If they are behind on their dues or mortgage payments, Disney will file a lien against them and it will be recorded on that site. I would avoid renting from anyone who is in that situation because if Disney takes back their contract, your reservation will be cancelled.Rent from someone with a high DIS post count.
Rent from someone who has rented several times and who has verifiable references.
Talk to them on the phone and ask them questions.
Don't look for the cheapest deal, you get what you pay for.
Review their written rental agreement. If they don't have one walk away.
Bill
I would add to this list to search for the owner on the Orange County comptrollers website, assuming the owner you are dealing with owns a WDW DVC resort. If they are behind on their dues or mortgage payments, Disney will file a lien against them and it will be recorded on that site. I would avoid renting from anyone who is in that situation because if Disney takes back their contract, your reservation will be cancelled.
You are correct that it will only be helpful in the case where the owner is already in trouble, hoping to rent his/her points and turn the proceeds over to Disney to bring their account up to date so that they can then make the reservation and save their contract from foreclosure. I doubt (hope!) there are many owners in that situation but I would prefer not to rent from someone who is.If the member isn't current with DVC, they can't make a reservation so the renter will not receive the confirmation or be able to verify the reservation on the Disney website. County fillings can take a while to be recorded and IMHO isn't the best way to verify if a owner is current.
Bill
I agree with Bill that public records are not a very accurate method of determining the status of an account. First of all, delays of 3-4 months in entering data are common. I strongly suspect Disney would have frozen an account long before they file a lein, so that is not likely to be a current indicator.If the member isn't current with DVC, they can't make a reservation so the renter will not receive the confirmation or be able to verify the reservation on the Disney website. County fillings can take a while to be recorded and IMHO isn't the best way to verify if a owner is current.
Bill
Me too! I sent her an email the same day, asking for some idea of when I should expect the money... and of course, no response. Tuesday will make one week. But I'll continue to give her the benefit of the doubt and let the Paypal case stay open.
I agree with Bill that public records are not a very accurate method of determining the status of an account. First of all, delays of 3-4 months in entering data are common. I strongly suspect Disney would have frozen an account long before they file a lein, so that is not likely to be a current indicator.
Second, whenever you are researching public records, you can't just look at the listing of the event. You have to look at tha actual documents to be sure a) they actually pertain to the account you are interested in, and b) that they have some relevance to your situation. The Orange County site allows you to view the actual document.
Third, public records are only as good as the minimum-wage temp who enters the data. They are notoriously inaccurate, which is why it is so important to actually view the documents, not just the listing.
About the only thing I would use the Orange County site for is to determine whether a person renting points is, in fact, the owner of the account. I am not a person who has a lot of absolute suggestions for prospective renters (I personally think the post-count thing is WAY overdone), but renting only from the actual owner is one absolute requirement, IMHO.
I agree that the lack of negative information does not guarantee an owner's account is current. However if I was a renter and a search of the records revealed that the owner I was working with had a history of liens going back a couple of years (suggesting ongoing financial problems) I would choose to do business with a different owner.I agree with Bill that public records are not a very accurate method of determining the status of an account. First of all, delays of 3-4 months in entering data are common. I strongly suspect Disney would have frozen an account long before they file a lein, so that is not likely to be a current indicator.