2023 Point Charts Released

[thptrek]

I was looking at going Feb 23 and may now just shift a little to January 23 to save some points. Over the years we are December people as we love the decorations. As demand increases for this time of year it makes sense to increase the points. Summer is just too hot for us and we live in Houston.

 

[drusba]

That former member calculated a change of less than 1/1000th of a percent at OKW and even less elsewhere.

I have also seen the new calculations, and the 2023 calendar year total points for each WDW DVC resort appear to be very close to the known total points for each resort (except for VGF where total points are going to greatly increase due to the addition of the 200 new studios). Moreover, by DVC doing away with using the annual change in the Easter date to significantly raise total points in many years, the charts for future years, assuming they remain the same as the 2023 chart, should also add up to being close to known total points.

Thus, it appears DVC has rectified the major total point problem it created when it switched to the 7-season point charts. I have not seen verification yet that points were not moved from one room size to another, although I am guessing such movement has not occurred based just on reviewing the charts.

 

[Stargazer65]

When do you think the DVC point calculator apps will get updated with 2023 charts?

 

[pianomanzano]

Is there a link to the calculations people bring up?

 

[Sandisw]

Is there a link to the calculations people bring up?

The poster people are referencing here is no longer posting on the DIS and the site they are referring to can not be discussed, or hints given for how to find it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Is there a link to the calculations people bring up?

Here's one that I've used for years and I believe is allowed. It's often a few weeks after release of charts before they get the new ones added if there have been changes. Disney Vacation Club (DVC) Point Calculator (tagrel.com)

 

[pianomanzano]

Here's one that I've used for years and I believe is allowed. It's often a few weeks after release of charts before they get the new ones added if there have been changes. Disney Vacation Club (DVC) Point Calculator (tagrel.com)

Thanks this is helpful, but not quite what I was looking. Based on some of the previous posts in this thread, looks like someone did an analysis of the 2023 point charts. I just wanted to nerd out on that data, but it sounds like that site isn't allowed. Thanks anyway!

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Is there a link to the calculations people bring up?

I was told I could share this link as long as it posted. https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/2023-points-charts-released.975759/#post-10086972

 

[pianomanzano]

I was told I could share this link as long as it posted. https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/2023-points-charts-released.975759/#post-10086972

Thanks!

 

[LadybugsMum]

DVC trip planner already loaded the points charts for 2023 if you want to start checking the points for trips: dvctripplanner.com

 

[Lorana]

So while it does look as if the point analysis indicates that the 2023 points are appropriately allocated, I thought I'd just mention here for those who own SSR - in particular, if your unit consists of the Treehouses, as mine does - that the SSR Treehouse rebalancing has devalued your points based on the fact that your points no longer represents your % ownership of your unit.

For example, I own 0.3314% of Unit 140B, which is 2 Treehouses. The Treehouses were declared at 905,250 points with 60 treehouses. This means 15,087.50 points per treehouse per year, so my unit represents 30,175 points. And if you do the math, you will see that 0.3314% = 100 points (rounded up from 99.99995).

In 2023, the number of points needed to book 1 Treehouse for the year is 16,932 points. This means, to book my unit for the year, it would take 33,864 points - an increase of 12.225%. My 100 points now represents 0.2953% of my unit, not .3314%. This is a key example of how/why Disney is not allowed to reallocate across units. This is illegal per Florida timeshare law (Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “One-to-one use right to use night requirement ratio” means that the sum of the nights that owners are entitled to use in a given 12-month period shall not exceed the number of nights available for use by those owners during the same 12-month period. No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."). To represent my .3314% ownership, I should now have 112 points. While my 100 points may represent the correct balance across all of SSR, it does NOT represent my actual legal ownership percentage for the unit I own.

For those who want to double-check my math, here's my scratch sheet work:

Sep 1-30 - 10 WE x43 = 430, 20 WD x38 = 760 = 1190
Jan 1-31 - 8 WE x45 = 360, 23 WD x41 = 943 = 1303
May 1-14 - 4 WE x45 = 180, 10 WD x41 = 410 = 590
May 15-Jun 10 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 19 WD x43 = 817 = 1201
Dec 1-23 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 15 WD x43 = 645 = 1029
Feb 1-15 - 4 WE x51 = 204, 11 WD x44 = 484 = 686
Jun 11-Aug 31 - 21 WE x51 = 1071, 60 WD x44 = 2640 = 3711
Oct1-Nov21 - 14 WE x52 = 728, 33 WD x47 = 1551 = 2279
Nov25-Nov30 - 1 WE x52 = 52, 5 WD x47 = 235 = 287
Feb 16-28 - 4 WE x58 = 232, 9 WD x51 = 459 = 691
Mar 1-Apr 1 - 10 WE x58 = 580, 22 WD x51 = 1122 = 1702
Apr 10-30 - 6 WE x58 = 348, 15 WD x51 = 765 = 1113
Nov 22-24 - 1 WE x58 = 58, 2 WD x51 = 102 = 160
Apr 2-9 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 6 WD x66 = 396 = 528
Dec 24-31 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 5 WD x66 = 330 = 462

Total = 16,932

Treehouse Points Declared: 905,250
# Treehouses = 60
Points per year per treehouse = 905250/60 = 15,087.50

Treehouse Unit 140B = 2 Treehouses = 30,175 points
.3314% ownership = 30175 x .003314 = 99.99995 = 100 points

2023 Point Charts
1 Treehouse for Year = 16,932 points
Unit 140B x2 Treehouses x16,932pts = 33,864
(12.225% increase)
100 pts in Unit 140B now represent .2953% ownership
.3314% ownership in 2023 should be 112.225 points

(Conversely, though I haven't done the math for it, this probably means my 50-point contract of 0.1094% ownership of Unit 66A which consists of 3 2BRs (2 LOs, 1 Dedicated) probably represents a larger percentage ownership now than I actually own, as DVC raised THV to lower 2BRs. This therefore means it also violates the statute above, as the points of all owners would equal more than 365 days).

 

[HIRyeDVC]

So while it does look as if the point analysis indicates that the 2023 points are appropriately allocated, I thought I'd just mention here for those who own SSR - in particular, if your unit consists of the Treehouses, as mine does - that the SSR Treehouse rebalancing has devalued your points based on the fact that your points no longer represents your % ownership of your unit.

For example, I own 0.3314% of Unit 140B, which is 2 Treehouses. The Treehouses were declared at 905,250 points with 60 treehouses. This means 15,087.50 points per treehouse per year, so my unit represents 30,175 points. And if you do the math, you will see that 0.3314% = 100 points (rounded up from 99.99995).

In 2023, the number of points needed to book 1 Treehouse for the year is 16,932 points. This means, to book my unit for the year, it would take 33,864 points - an increase of 12.225%. My 100 points now represents 0.2953% of my unit, not .3314%. This is a key example of how/why Disney is not allowed to reallocate across units. This is illegal per Florida timeshare law (Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “One-to-one use right to use night requirement ratio” means that the sum of the nights that owners are entitled to use in a given 12-month period shall not exceed the number of nights available for use by those owners during the same 12-month period. No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."). To represent my .3314% ownership, I should now have 112 points. While my 100 points may represent the correct balance across all of SSR, it does NOT represent my actual legal ownership percentage for the unit I own.

For those who want to double-check my math, here's my scratch sheet work:

Sep 1-30 - 10 WE x43 = 430, 20 WD x38 = 760 = 1190
Jan 1-31 - 8 WE x45 = 360, 23 WD x41 = 943 = 1303
May 1-14 - 4 WE x45 = 180, 10 WD x41 = 410 = 590
May 15-Jun 10 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 19 WD x43 = 817 = 1201
Dec 1-23 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 15 WD x43 = 645 = 1029
Feb 1-15 - 4 WE x51 = 204, 11 WD x44 = 484 = 686
Jun 11-Aug 31 - 21 WE x51 = 1071, 60 WD x44 = 2640 = 3711
Oct1-Nov21 - 14 WE x52 = 728, 33 WD x47 = 1551 = 2279
Nov25-Nov30 - 1 WE x52 = 52, 5 WD x47 = 235 = 287
Feb 16-28 - 4 WE x58 = 232, 9 WD x51 = 459 = 691
Mar 1-Apr 1 - 10 WE x58 = 580, 22 WD x51 = 1122 = 1702
Apr 10-30 - 6 WE x58 = 348, 15 WD x51 = 765 = 1113
Nov 22-24 - 1 WE x58 = 58, 2 WD x51 = 102 = 160
Apr 2-9 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 6 WD x66 = 396 = 528
Dec 24-31 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 5 WD x66 = 330 = 462

Total = 16,932

Treehouse Points Declared: 905,250
# Treehouses = 60
Points per year per treehouse = 905250/60 = 15,087.50

Treehouse Unit 140B = 2 Treehouses = 30,175 points
.3314% ownership = 30175 x .003314 = 99.99995 = 100 points

2023 Point Charts
1 Treehouse for Year = 16,932 points
Unit 140B x2 Treehouses x16,932pts = 33,864
(12.225% increase)
100 pts in Unit 140B now represent .2953% ownership
.3314% ownership in 2023 should be 112.225 points

(Conversely, though I haven't done the math for it, this probably means my 50-point contract of 0.1094% ownership of Unit 66A which consists of 3 2BRs (2 LOs, 1 Dedicated) probably represents a larger percentage ownership now than I actually own, as DVC raised THV to lower 2BRs. This therefore means it also violates the statute above, as the points of all owners would equal more than 365 days).

whoa. that's good work. can you do the same for CCV?

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

So while it does look as if the point analysis indicates that the 2023 points are appropriately allocated, I thought I'd just mention here for those who own SSR - in particular, if your unit consists of the Treehouses, as mine does - that the SSR Treehouse rebalancing has devalued your points based on the fact that your points no longer represents your % ownership of your unit.

For example, I own 0.3314% of Unit 140B, which is 2 Treehouses. The Treehouses were declared at 905,250 points with 60 treehouses. This means 15,087.50 points per treehouse per year, so my unit represents 30,175 points. And if you do the math, you will see that 0.3314% = 100 points (rounded up from 99.99995).

In 2023, the number of points needed to book 1 Treehouse for the year is 16,932 points. This means, to book my unit for the year, it would take 33,864 points - an increase of 12.225%. My 100 points now represents 0.2953% of my unit, not .3314%. This is a key example of how/why Disney is not allowed to reallocate across units. This is illegal per Florida timeshare law (Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “One-to-one use right to use night requirement ratio” means that the sum of the nights that owners are entitled to use in a given 12-month period shall not exceed the number of nights available for use by those owners during the same 12-month period. No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."). To represent my .3314% ownership, I should now have 112 points. While my 100 points may represent the correct balance across all of SSR, it does NOT represent my actual legal ownership percentage for the unit I own.

For those who want to double-check my math, here's my scratch sheet work:

Sep 1-30 - 10 WE x43 = 430, 20 WD x38 = 760 = 1190
Jan 1-31 - 8 WE x45 = 360, 23 WD x41 = 943 = 1303
May 1-14 - 4 WE x45 = 180, 10 WD x41 = 410 = 590
May 15-Jun 10 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 19 WD x43 = 817 = 1201
Dec 1-23 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 15 WD x43 = 645 = 1029
Feb 1-15 - 4 WE x51 = 204, 11 WD x44 = 484 = 686
Jun 11-Aug 31 - 21 WE x51 = 1071, 60 WD x44 = 2640 = 3711
Oct1-Nov21 - 14 WE x52 = 728, 33 WD x47 = 1551 = 2279
Nov25-Nov30 - 1 WE x52 = 52, 5 WD x47 = 235 = 287
Feb 16-28 - 4 WE x58 = 232, 9 WD x51 = 459 = 691
Mar 1-Apr 1 - 10 WE x58 = 580, 22 WD x51 = 1122 = 1702
Apr 10-30 - 6 WE x58 = 348, 15 WD x51 = 765 = 1113
Nov 22-24 - 1 WE x58 = 58, 2 WD x51 = 102 = 160
Apr 2-9 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 6 WD x66 = 396 = 528
Dec 24-31 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 5 WD x66 = 330 = 462

Total = 16,932

Treehouse Points Declared: 905,250
# Treehouses = 60
Points per year per treehouse = 905250/60 = 15,087.50

Treehouse Unit 140B = 2 Treehouses = 30,175 points
.3314% ownership = 30175 x .003314 = 99.99995 = 100 points

2023 Point Charts
1 Treehouse for Year = 16,932 points
Unit 140B x2 Treehouses x16,932pts = 33,864
(12.225% increase)
100 pts in Unit 140B now represent .2953% ownership
.3314% ownership in 2023 should be 112.225 points

(Conversely, though I haven't done the math for it, this probably means my 50-point contract of 0.1094% ownership of Unit 66A which consists of 3 2BRs (2 LOs, 1 Dedicated) probably represents a larger percentage ownership now than I actually own, as DVC raised THV to lower 2BRs. This therefore means it also violates the statute above, as the points of all owners would equal more than 365 days).

What’s the upshot of that for you though? Disney isn’t giving you the alternate number of points you cite, they’re giving you the allocation based on your original contract. If you sold it it would sell at the same price as a non-THV SSR contract.

I guess I’m not understanding why you feel personally impacted.

 

[Lorana]

whoa. that's good work. can you do the same for CCV?

CCV might take a little more work. SSV was easier, because THVs were added later. Is there a particular unit type you want me to see if I can figure out the point difference for from opening to now that you feel they may have been reallocating points to/from? It may take me some days to get around to it, but I can try.

 

[Lorana]

What’s the upshot of that for you though? Disney isn’t giving you the alternate number of points you cite, they’re giving you the allocation based on your original contract. If you sold it it would sell at the same price as a non-THV SSR contract.

I guess I’m not understanding why you feel personally impacted.

The point is more that there is often a debate as to whether or not DVC can reallocate points across Home Vacation Villa Types and/or Unit Types. DVC has implied in the past that they are allowed to, but many who have analyzed charts, contracts, and FL law feel that they are not allowed to. And I would argue that this isn't about "feeling" personally impacted: everyone who owns a contract at SSR has been impacted, as you own either more or less of your unit. And as I bought into SSR to book THVs, and own THVs, this is directly impacting me: I legally own .3314% but my points only represent .2953% of my unit.

More importantly, though, I'm raising this because this is data that can be utilized in situations where Disney is moving points between villa types; it is an EASY example of demonstrating why legally DVC cannot move the points, because the reallocaton now means that my 100 points don't actually represented my percentage ownership of my unit, and legally it must do so.

Edited to add: The allocation of points Disney gives me is always supposed to represent my percentage ownership - with variation only to account for change in calendar days and leap year. I supposed what I should actually do next is to take 2023 charts costs against the calendar days of 2009 (as Jan 1 will be a Sunday in 2023 and was a Thursday in 2009, and Easter will be 4/9 and was 4/12, respectively), as there may be some slightly point differences based on those calculations. That said, the numbers above prove the point, however, that DVC's reallocation violates both the sales contract, the POS, and FL statutes.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

CCV might take a little more work. SSV was easier, because THVs were added later. Is there a particular unit type you want me to see if I can figure out the point difference for from opening to now that you feel they may have been reallocating points to/from? It may take me some days to get around to it, but I can try.

Not really. I was more expressing my admiration for your diligence in combing through the numbers to confirm integrity of the points ecosystem. It WOULD be nice to see this kind of breakdown for the other resorts. Not to task you in anyway. I wish I had more time to do it myself.

 

[Lorana]

Not really. I was more expressing my admiration for your diligence in combing through the numbers to confirm integrity of the points ecosystem. It WOULD be nice to see this kind of breakdown for the other resorts. Not to task you in anyway. I wish I had more time to do it myself.

Well, I do also own at CCV, so it'd be worthwhile to see the balancing there. I just might not have time do so for a little bit, but I'll post back when I do. Now I feel I need to create a spreadsheet for the breakdown of 2023 dates to make it easier to calculate, lol.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Well, I do also own at CCV, so it'd be worthwhile to see the balancing there. I just might not have time do so for a little bit, but I'll post back when I do. Now I feel I need to create a spreadsheet for the breakdown of 2023 dates to make it easier to calculate, lol.

This is why you're my mentor

 

[DVCSunDevil]

So while it does look as if the point analysis indicates that the 2023 points are appropriately allocated, I thought I'd just mention here for those who own SSR - in particular, if your unit consists of the Treehouses, as mine does - that the SSR Treehouse rebalancing has devalued your points based on the fact that your points no longer represents your % ownership of your unit.

For example, I own 0.3314% of Unit 140B, which is 2 Treehouses. The Treehouses were declared at 905,250 points with 60 treehouses. This means 15,087.50 points per treehouse per year, so my unit represents 30,175 points. And if you do the math, you will see that 0.3314% = 100 points (rounded up from 99.99995).

In 2023, the number of points needed to book 1 Treehouse for the year is 16,932 points. This means, to book my unit for the year, it would take 33,864 points - an increase of 12.225%. My 100 points now represents 0.2953% of my unit, not .3314%. This is a key example of how/why Disney is not allowed to reallocate across units. This is illegal per Florida timeshare law (Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “One-to-one use right to use night requirement ratio” means that the sum of the nights that owners are entitled to use in a given 12-month period shall not exceed the number of nights available for use by those owners during the same 12-month period. No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."). To represent my .3314% ownership, I should now have 112 points. While my 100 points may represent the correct balance across all of SSR, it does NOT represent my actual legal ownership percentage for the unit I own.

For those who want to double-check my math, here's my scratch sheet work:

Sep 1-30 - 10 WE x43 = 430, 20 WD x38 = 760 = 1190
Jan 1-31 - 8 WE x45 = 360, 23 WD x41 = 943 = 1303
May 1-14 - 4 WE x45 = 180, 10 WD x41 = 410 = 590
May 15-Jun 10 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 19 WD x43 = 817 = 1201
Dec 1-23 - 8 WE x48 = 384, 15 WD x43 = 645 = 1029
Feb 1-15 - 4 WE x51 = 204, 11 WD x44 = 484 = 686
Jun 11-Aug 31 - 21 WE x51 = 1071, 60 WD x44 = 2640 = 3711
Oct1-Nov21 - 14 WE x52 = 728, 33 WD x47 = 1551 = 2279
Nov25-Nov30 - 1 WE x52 = 52, 5 WD x47 = 235 = 287
Feb 16-28 - 4 WE x58 = 232, 9 WD x51 = 459 = 691
Mar 1-Apr 1 - 10 WE x58 = 580, 22 WD x51 = 1122 = 1702
Apr 10-30 - 6 WE x58 = 348, 15 WD x51 = 765 = 1113
Nov 22-24 - 1 WE x58 = 58, 2 WD x51 = 102 = 160
Apr 2-9 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 6 WD x66 = 396 = 528
Dec 24-31 - 2 WE x76 = 132, 5 WD x66 = 330 = 462

Total = 16,932

Treehouse Points Declared: 905,250
# Treehouses = 60
Points per year per treehouse = 905250/60 = 15,087.50

Treehouse Unit 140B = 2 Treehouses = 30,175 points
.3314% ownership = 30175 x .003314 = 99.99995 = 100 points

2023 Point Charts
1 Treehouse for Year = 16,932 points
Unit 140B x2 Treehouses x16,932pts = 33,864
(12.225% increase)
100 pts in Unit 140B now represent .2953% ownership
.3314% ownership in 2023 should be 112.225 points

(Conversely, though I haven't done the math for it, this probably means my 50-point contract of 0.1094% ownership of Unit 66A which consists of 3 2BRs (2 LOs, 1 Dedicated) probably represents a larger percentage ownership now than I actually own, as DVC raised THV to lower 2BRs. This therefore means it also violates the statute above, as the points of all owners would equal more than 365 days).

So do you only stay in Treehouses?

 

[Sandisw]

The point is more that there is often a debate as to whether or not DVC can reallocate points across Home Vacation Villa Types and/or Unit Types. DVC has implied in the past that they are allowed to, but many who have analyzed charts, contracts, and FL law feel that they are not allowed to. And I would argue that this isn't about "feeling" personally impacted: everyone who owns a contract at SSR has been impacted, as you own either more or less of your unit. And as I bought into SSR to book THVs, and own THVs, this is directly impacting me: I legally own .3314% but my points only represent .2953% of my unit.

More importantly, though, I'm raising this because this is data that can be utilized in situations where Disney is moving points between villa types; it is an EASY example of demonstrating why legally DVC cannot move the points, because the reallocaton now means that my 100 points don't actually represented my percentage ownership of my unit, and legally it must do so.

Edited to add: The allocation of points Disney gives me is always supposed to represent my percentage ownership - with variation only to account for change in calendar days and leap year. I supposed what I should actually do next is to take 2023 charts costs against the calendar days of 2009 (as Jan 1 will be a Sunday in 2023 and was a Thursday in 2009, and Easter will be 4/9 and was 4/12, respectively), as there may be some slightly point differences based on those calculations. That said, the numbers above prove the point, however, that DVC's reallocation violates both the sales contract, the POS, and FL statutes.

The only piece I am struggling with is that the same number of points, can be different % based on the size of the unit, but the usage is the same for booking rooms,

So, your 100 points may be a higher or lower % of your own unit vs mine. But those same 100 points can be used the same way, regardless of what % is actually owned.

For example, I owned 150 BWV points in 2 different contracts..but the % of ownership I had for the exact same points was not the same because my unit sizes were different.

Since we don’t stay only in our own units, not sure I agree that the % owned is ever diluted because of use. My 150 points from each unit could be used exactly the same every year.

Now, if we had a points based system that forced everyone to use their own units, and things were moved around, this % argument would make more sense to me.

That is not saying that I think points can be shifted, I am in the process of doing my research, but not sure % of ownership matters when the POS states that ownership represented in points is a simple way to account because on a % basis, a point is not always equal but it is for booking.