If RCID is dissolved, what happens with DVC?

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Could be good for Florida. These are all special districts that were not recertified after 11/1/1968.
I do not know the people running those antiquated special districts or what their personal reaction will be. But experience tells me the reaction will be more along the lines of “ho hum.” (Unless the books show there are serious anomalies.).

As to Disney’s reaction — The Daily Mail has a headline right now that says … “[P]anicked media giant considers ‘bringing back Bob Igor’ to steady ship”
Yeah, on the surface this seems like it could be a huge issue for Disney in the long run. I don't know how what appears to be a leveling of the playing field will have much of an adverse affect on FL.

To me if it's not too late already Disney should have someone other than Chapek in some very high level discussions with the Governor's office to see what the company can do to go back in time a few weeks.
 
That makes sense. At the end this will hurt us all financially one way or another but I'm trying to find a way to justify the future expense.
No matter what comes of this, in the end Disney is going to "hurt us all financially one way or another" anyway
 
I find this topic so fascinating.

Historically speaking, Walt Disney personally lobbied for RCID mainly because of Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. He even made a movie pitching his idea and presented it to the Florida Legislature in the 1960s. I believe you can find his movie on Youtube. RCID was going to be the governing authority for Walt's dream and vision of Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. And, when Walt died and RCID was created shortly thereafter, TWDC didn't carry out Walt's dream. I understand that plans can change and the then Board members (and even the current and future board members) are not Walt Disney and his creative genius. But, TWDC has had ample opportunity to create alternative planned community developments (alternative to EPCOT) and incorporate those developments into RCID. And...TWDC has specifically subdivided planned community developments out of of RCID (e.g. Celebration and Golden Oaks). It smacks of deliberate behavior.

I truly believe TWDC would be in a much stronger position to argue to Florida's elected officials and the public that TWDC has held up its promises to build planned community developments (even if it falls short of Walt's EPCOT vision) within RCID and therefore the need to keep RCID's governing authority is as important it was in the beginning when no planned community developments existed within RCID. And I wholly admit that these arguments might not make a difference in the end, but it at least it would be a sound, logical argument for TWDC to make and for the public to understand.

My opinion, and it is wholly my opinion, is that TWDC acts that it alone is entitled to RCID. The entitlement attitude (for lack of a better term) is kind of a negative thing for anybody or any corporation to adopt, including, TWDC.

I do concur with the PP sentiments on this topic. Not only is this topic fascinating, I think however this whole thing ends up will be fascinating too.
 
I find this topic so fascinating.

Historically speaking, Walt Disney personally lobbied for RCID mainly because of Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. He even made a movie pitching his idea and presented it to the Florida Legislature in the 1960s. I believe you can find his movie on Youtube. RCID was going to be the governing authority for Walt's dream and vision of Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. And, when Walt died and RCID was created shortly thereafter, TWDC didn't carry out Walt's dream. I understand that plans can change and the then Board members (and even the current and future board members) are not Walt Disney and his creative genius. But, TWDC has had ample opportunity to create alternative planned community developments (alternative to EPCOT) and incorporate those developments into RCID. And...TWDC has specifically subdivided planned community developments out of of RCID (e.g. Celebration and Golden Oaks). It smacks of deliberate behavior.

I truly believe TWDC would be in a much stronger position to argue to Florida's elected officials and the public that TWDC has held up its promises to build planned community developments (even if it falls short of Walt's EPCOT vision) within RCID and therefore the need to keep RCID's governing authority is as important it was in the beginning when no planned community developments existed within RCID. And I wholly admit that these arguments might not make a difference in the end, but it at least it would be a sound, logical argument for TWDC to make and for the public to understand.

My opinion, and it is wholly my opinion, is that TWDC acts that it alone is entitled to RCID. The entitlement attitude (for lack of a better term) is kind of a negative thing for anybody or any corporation to adopt, including, TWDC.

I do concur with the PP sentiments on this topic. Not only is this topic fascinating, I think however this whole thing ends up will be fascinating too.
All of this is worth legislators looking into RCID. Folks on both sides of the isle have called to restrict some of the powers of RCID in the past. But that's not what's happening rn, unfortunately. There's been no careful evaluation of impact, no time for deliberation. It's been simply a show of the state's power to punish. As someone with a timeshare interest (money tied up) in this state, the quick retribution is scary.

But I hope that it's all just smoke and mirrors in the end.
 
All of this is worth legislators looking into RCID. Folks on both sides of the isle have called to restrict some of the powers of RCID in the past. But that's not what's happening rn, unfortunately. There's been no careful evaluation of impact, no time for deliberation. It's been simply a show of the state's power to punish. As someone with a timeshare interest (money tied up) in this state, the quick retribution is scary.

But I hope that it's all just smoke and mirrors in the end.
I too am not certain that there has been the type of contemplative deliberation you would want from government leaders and the impacts that elimination of RCID will have on the local communities. At least it doesn't appear to be a deliberate process for rulemaking. More of a reactive sort of thing, which doesn't typically lend itself to positive results.

I'm not in Florida and I am certainly not "plugged-in" to the elected officials to know exactly what is going on and the work behind the scenes that have been done to study the impacts of a decision to terminate RCID.
 
I too am not certain that there has been the type of contemplative deliberation you would want from government leaders and the impacts that elimination of RCID will have on the local communities. At least it doesn't appear to be a deliberate process for rulemaking. More of a reactive sort of thing, which doesn't typically lend itself to positive results.

I'm not in Florida and I am certainly not "plugged-in" to the elected officials to know exactly what is going on and the work behind the scenes that have been done to study the impacts of a decision to terminate RCID.
You could be completely correct, as I am certainly not "plugged-in" to the decision-makers, either. I do tend to think that all of the major players in this unfolding drama have a very good idea of what this action portends for each of the entities. All of them would have certainly studied the issue previously, I would think. Maybe that's just too much of an assumption on my part.
 
It seems to me that the taxes we pay as part of our DVC dues would go down. The money that Disney pays in taxes to RCID would go away, and the county taxes would, to some degree, go up to cover those expenses. The difference being, the entire county would share the cost, instead of just Disney (and DVC).

Politicians are frequently short-sighted and reactive. Source: am politician.
 
You could be completely correct, as I am certainly not "plugged-in" to the decision-makers, either. I do tend to think that all of the major players in this unfolding drama have a very good idea of what this action portends for each of the entities. All of them would have certainly studied the issue previously, I would think. Maybe that's just too much of an assumption on my part.
No doubt that they, government and Disney, already have studied the ramifications of this, it wasn't just something thrown together in the past 2 weeks. Without being plugged in either I would bet money that Disney has a lot more to lose with this action than state/local governments or the constituents. Again I don't see how coming out on either side politcally is good for business but hey maybe that thought process is why I am sitting here typing on a messageboard instead of out spending my millions.
 
RCID exists to allow Disney to build and maintain its own infrastructure. By abolishing it, the services provided by it to WDW would fall back on the county to provide.

The most obvious is the RC fire department, which maintains a full time staff with specialized vehicles and training, including high altitude and water rescue. Disney could be sub-contracted by the county to provide this service. Disney doesn't have to do so without a profit, so the cost for this might go up, or be replaced by a substitute service by the county for which Disney would pay. Disney could claim a "stranded cost" for their fire department, and force the county to pay for all the vehicles and buildings.

Disney also builds and maintains its own roads. There is no requirement that these be transferred to the county. Large property owners, home owner associations, and others have private roads that they maintain.

Disney builds and maintains its own power facilities, including the solar field, electrical substations, and power distribution, all under a separate wholly owned subsidiary. I don't see where there would be a requirement that these be transferred to the county.

Disney is not exempt from building rules, so it currently files building applications with the county. So, no change there.

Disney has its own security force, including armed officers, and is assisted by the county police. So, no change there. But, the county could demand that Disney pay more for police services, on the basis that they have officers more or less dedicated to Disney's "private property" (which used to be RCID, a quasi-government agency exempted from such charges).

There is a more serious issue, for Disney involved though. By having RCID, Disney is insulated from voter referendums regarding its property. RCID doesn't have many residents, and all are Disney employees. They won't do a referendum to prevent Disney from doing anything. If RCID is abolished, then the voters in the county could effectively prevent Disney from having free reign on its own property. Voters in the county could demand changes to plans and operating procedures.

What does this mean for DVC? Probably nothing. Until Orange County steps up and says that this is a good thing for them, and not (as we expect) a major headache for them, I don't see this as happening.
 
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It seems to me that the taxes we pay as part of our DVC dues would go down. The money that Disney pays in taxes to RCID would go away, and the county taxes would, to some degree, go up to cover those expenses. The difference being, the entire county would share the cost, instead of just Disney (and DVC).

Politicians are frequently short-sighted and reactive. Source: am politician.
Agree, I believe taxes should go down or at worst remain about the same, it will be the level of service, whatever you think of it, that would be affected.
 
Agree, I believe taxes should go down or at worst remain about the same, it will be the level of service, whatever you think of it, that would be affected.
I keep coming back to the state of the roads and how much signage Disney has- I hate to imagine how many accidents are going to be caused by waiting for a county government to come alter the sign or tourists dodging potholes in addition to not knowing where they are headed.

People comparing it to Universal are forgetting the mileage of road that is primarily there to get from Disney location to Disney location. These parks and hotels aren't all walking distance.
 
I keep coming back to the state of the roads and how much signage Disney has- I hate to imagine how many accidents are going to be caused by waiting for a county government to come alter the sign or tourists dodging potholes in addition to not knowing where they are headed.

People comparing it to Universal are forgetting the mileage of road that is primarily there to get from Disney location to Disney location. These parks and hotels aren't all walking distance.
Exactly, it's not a comparison among equals. So many resorts, plus the golf courses, and areas in between like crescent lake, etc. That takes a lot more infrastructure management. It's not just roads and signs; there are solar farms, waste management, infrastructure related to pest control (Disney does a lot of innovative things to keep the mosquito population down, for instance). WDW is just huge, UO is more skin to Disneyland plus a water park. But essentially, two theme parks and some adjacent hotels. Not a lot of land and infrastructure to manage. The counties aren't going to go the extra mile on any such things. Disney can work it with them, perhaps, to keep doing some stuff on their own, but we don't know the financial impact of any of it.

This is why, as a DVC owner and Floridian, I would advocate both the government and Disney to proceed carefully and calculate everything. I don't like my government ruling by vengeance, there are many financial interests at stake. Hopefully the impact to WDW can be minimized within the next year or so before RCID expires. I would think Disney would put their best lawyers and lobbyists on the case.
 
Exactly, it's not a comparison among equals. So many resorts, plus the golf courses, and areas in between like crescent lake, etc. That takes a lot more infrastructure management. It's not just roads and signs; there are solar farms, waste management, infrastructure related to pest control (Disney does a lot of innovative things to keep the mosquito population down, for instance). WDW is just huge, UO is more skin to Disneyland plus a water park. But essentially, two theme parks and some adjacent hotels. Not a lot of land and infrastructure to manage. The counties aren't going to go the extra mile on any such things. Disney can work it with them, perhaps, to keep doing some stuff on their own, but we don't know the financial impact of any of it.

This is why, as a DVC owner and Floridian, I would advocate both the government and Disney to proceed carefully and calculate everything. I don't like my government ruling by vengeance, there are many financial interests at stake. Hopefully the impact to WDW can be minimized within the next year or so before RCID expires. I would think Disney would put their best lawyers and lobbyists on the case.
This is probably the best take I’ve heard. Not just because you are both DVC and Floridian, but because you hit everything right in the head.
 
The counties aren't going to go the extra mile on any such things. Disney can work it with them, perhaps, to keep doing some stuff on their own, but we don't know the financial impact of any of it.

This is why, as a DVC owner and Floridian, I would advocate both the government and Disney to proceed carefully and calculate everything. I don't like my government ruling by vengeance, there are many financial interests at stake.
This is why it wouldn't be difficult for lawyers to get involved and argue effectively this is not simply leveling a playing field, this is retaliatory sabotage of their infrastructure.
 
It seems to me that the taxes we pay as part of our DVC dues would go down. The money that Disney pays in taxes to RCID would go away, and the county taxes would, to some degree, go up to cover those expenses. The difference being, the entire county would share the cost, instead of just Disney (and DVC).
I will start by saying that I hope you are correct in the belief that taxes for DVC owners would go down. The skeptic in me cannot envision a scenario where we pay less in taxes. Maybe I am just being naive, but assuming the two counties become responsible for providing the infrastructure, it won't be the same and will not come at a cheaper price than what we are paying today.
 
I don't think it's going to increase our property taxes because that could mean increasing property taxes outside of Disney World. I guess theoretically, our taxes/dues could go down.

Reedy Creek currently taxes Disney $105 million a year, Orange County just has to find a way raise that revenue. Oddly enough, the most likely way would lower Disney's tax burden and increase the burden onto the guests. Although, I guess they could just use whatever formula RCID currently uses and reinstitute those same taxes onto Disney.

https://www.wesh.com/article/reedy-creek-improvement-district/39779429#

If the $105 million figure is accurate and Disney World has an average of 52.5+ million guests a year, then they just have to find a way to tax Disney World guests an extra $2 or so by way of an Amusement Tax or increase Disney's property taxes by the amount that they'd be lowered as a part of this deal. (Since they'd have to pay Ambulance and Fire taxes to Orange County now or some newly created Ambulance District and not to RCID.)

Or they could do a mixture of both. I guess if Orange County residents pay more for fire than RCID, then we'd be paying the higher rate.

Just thinking out loud, but I guess they could just create a new Reedy Creek District... Say on a particular day Disney Reedy Creek no longer exists and then we have New Reedy Creek. From that day forward Disney pays money to New Reedy Creek at the same rate they were paying to the old district. So taxes and everything would stay the same, but Disney loses control.

... Also, taking a super quick look at their budget, it looks like Orange County could absorb the whole $105 million without increasing taxes. Orange County had a $378 million surplus in 2021. If they did that, they'd just be giving Disney a pretty big tax cut.

https://www.occompt.com/download/Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports/ACFR_2021.pdf

I'm not advocating anything or talking politics, I'm just looking at the numbers at what I think they could do. This is all really interesting. I don't think a CID the size of Reedy Creek has ever just ended.
 
Is it even possi
I don't think it's going to increase our property taxes because that could mean increasing property taxes outside of Disney World. I guess theoretically, our taxes/dues could go down.

Reedy Creek currently taxes Disney $105 million a year, Orange County just has to find a way raise that revenue. Oddly enough, the most likely way would lower Disney's tax burden and increase the burden onto the guests. Although, I guess they could just use whatever formula RCID currently uses and reinstitute those same taxes onto Disney.

https://www.wesh.com/article/reedy-creek-improvement-district/39779429#

If the $105 million figure is accurate and Disney World has an average of 52.5+ million guests a year, then they just have to find a way to tax Disney World guests an extra $2 or so by way of an Amusement Tax or increase Disney's property taxes by the amount that they'd be lowered as a part of this deal. (Since they'd have to pay Ambulance and Fire taxes to Orange County now or some newly created Ambulance District and not to RCID.)

Or they could do a mixture of both. I guess if Orange County residents pay more for fire than RCID, then we'd be paying the higher rate.

Just thinking out loud, but I guess they could just create a new Reedy Creek District... Say on a particular day Disney Reedy Creek no longer exists and then we have New Reedy Creek. From that day forward Disney pays money to New Reedy Creek at the same rate they were paying to the old district. So taxes and everything would stay the same, but Disney loses control.

... Also, taking a super quick look at their budget, it looks like Orange County could absorb the whole $105 million without increasing taxes. Orange County had a $378 million surplus in 2021. If they did that, they'd just be giving Disney a pretty big tax cut.

https://www.occompt.com/download/Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports/ACFR_2021.pdf

I'm not advocating anything or talking politics, I'm just looking at the numbers at what I think they could do. This is all really interesting. I don't think a CID the size of Reedy Creek has ever just ended.

Could they even make a new reedy creek? I forget if it was here or on an older forum and I might’ve asked this elsewhere, but can they make a new reedy creek? What would that entail?
 
Just thinking out loud, but I guess they could just create a new Reedy Creek District... Say on a particular day Disney Reedy Creek no longer exists and then we have New Reedy Creek. From that day forward Disney pays money to New Reedy Creek at the same rate they were paying to the old district. So taxes and everything would stay the same, but Disney loses control.
That get in to the old "taxation without representation" issue. The people in the district vote on the taxes and oversight of the district. How can they make that work? And how can Disney undermine those efforts. I'm going to file this under, "not impossible, but practically impossible and totally unworkable."
 
I keep coming back to the state of the roads and how much signage Disney has- I hate to imagine how many accidents are going to be caused by waiting for a county government to come alter the sign or tourists dodging potholes in addition to not knowing where they are headed.

People comparing it to Universal are forgetting the mileage of road that is primarily there to get from Disney location to Disney location. These parks and hotels aren't all walking distance.

I think the piece at this point is that we don't know what type of agreement might come from this. Getting rid of RCID, doesn't then preclude the county/state from coming up with a different type of relationship that keeps some of these things in play.

This was created prior to 1968 so it very well could simply end up with an updated version with some key things kept in place, like the signs, and other things that are agreed to be amended with more input from the county, etc.
 
I
I think the piece at this point is that we don't know what type of agreement might come from this. Getting rid of RCID, doesn't then preclude the county/state from coming up with a different type of relationship that keeps some of these things in play.

This was created prior to 1968 so it very well could simply end up with an updated version with some key things kept in place, like the signs, and other things that are agreed to be amended with more input from the county, etc.
I have been wondering this too. I don’t know how I’d feel if I was a legislator in either county, but my first step would be to work and compromise as much as possible. Literally have plan A through Z being started right now (I’d also be checking on what else in my county would be affected by the pre 1968-while I know many aren’t big deals according to things I’ve read, there are still a few that would make me want to fight tooth and nail to preserve and do what I can)
 
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