Let's speculate about Polynesian some more!

[cbailey1616]

Let me get this straight, RIV owners are upset that they will have more competition at the 7-month booking window now? Is that all?

 

[ziravan]

I own at AKV (100 resale and not enough) and I also own two fixed weeks - both week 44 studios, one at RIV and 1 at LV Poly.

I was a strong detractor of RIV over the resale restrictions - until my DW fell in love with the place. So we sold our $84/point 2014 BCV resale purchase (via ROFR to Disney) for $145/point and bought a similar number of points at RIV direct.

I hear people saying that no restrictions at Poly2 is essentially a broken promise to RIV but my take is that instead, it’s keeping an implied promise to Poly - that they would come back and fix the room balance later. This is why I believed the tower WOULD be in the same association.

In any case, I’ve done a complete 180 on RIV restrictions since we bought in there. I’ve gone from deal-breaker to “I couldn’t care less one way or another.”

DVD gonna do what it’s gonna do. In the meantime, we own where we want to stay.

 

[maui22]

Was it last years DVC meeting where the slide showed Polynesian Village Resort and they stated it would be part of the “existing resort”?

Did we maybe misinterpret that? If restrictions apply to “new resorts” is the legal wording, might they have been letting everyone know their plans?

 

[DougEMG]

Man I really wanted to stop talking about this, but you’re putting words in my mouth now. I own PVB resale and most of my points are resale I get more from this decision than not. I love how we say we want no restrictions because that’s what’s actually fair here, a thing I assume we all agree on??? And we’re specifically talking to DVD’s decisions and how they’re the bad guy for their lack of clarity and integrity and never about if some should benefit and others shouldn’t, literally I have yet to read a comment where someone says anything even close to what you’re implying. Yes, I’m the mean one, please keep ganging up on the minority of RIV owners that continue to get alienated by DVD decisions, even if you don’t think they are, we clearly do.

You’re right that nothing changes on literal paper. That’s fair. But if people are just going to keep pretending like this doesn’t affect the overall value and appeal of a super expensive purchase and everything is as it was before that’s not being fair, honest and, frankly, is being intentionally obtuse.

If nothing really changes then RIV would be sold out by now and the resale prices would be much higher than they are now and many of you all here would have purchased direct or resale points in some come capacity. Idc what anyone says - most buy with the hope that if they had to resell one day it would do ok on the market, we have endless threads about this exact topic here. That’s ultimately what makes DVC different from other timeshares. We believed that if restrictions were going to become a common occurrence going forward, our purchase would be no different from anyone else’s. That’s how it was sold to us. We’re sitting here asking that DVD remove them altogether and y’all are like idc that much because it doesn’t effect me and RIV owners signed up for this and they’re a bunch of suckers anyway (I don’t actually think you think that but it’s not nice when someone puts words in your mouth, is it?)

Let me say it for the people in the back: this decision is great news for resale owners, myself included. I hope this is a turning point for DVD and they continue to not add restrictions on any additions to the DVC portfolio. In the end, I accept whatever restrictions they add or take away because I love staying at RIV but I really, really hope they remove them on existing resorts, too, because it does devalue them. It would be a nice gesture from DVD but I won’t hold my breath.

I’m going to attempt to hold my tongue from now on because I don’t want to argue with anyone and the back and forth is a bit exhausting. You’re not the one making decisions so I really don’t have any issue with you at all. You’re fully entitled to your opinions on all this, and I really do respect that. And I even agree with what most are saying! I just wish people could see this from the other side. I’ve tried but I’m clearly not the person to do that succinctly enough to make it make any sense to anyone.

These boards are a great place to be a sound board for thoughts, opinions and yes, complaints but most of that is towards a massive entity that ultimately doesn’t care about my opinion or yours. My take away from all this is to take everything DVD says with a heavy dose of speculation and try not to be bogged down by the rest of it. We clearly all love this product and want the best from it, we’re on the same side.

I just bought a CCR and RIV contract resale on the same day both with the same number of points guess which was cheaper.....RIV. Why, because of the resale restrictions.

Disney INTENTIONALLY mislead RIV owners that they needed to buy direct to stay in any future resorts because of these new resale restriction. Then in the fine print they gave themselves an out clause by saying future resorts may or may not have restrictions. Without these new restrictions in place, there probably was some number of RIV owners that would have bought resale instead.

So either Disney is incompetent, and they have no real long term plan or they are manipulative trying to maximize what they are currently selling without any long term plan. In either case they are stupid as they are breaking the trust that their most loyal customers have for them.

What Disney should do is admit the restrictions are a mistake and don't work and remove them.

 

[Sandisw]

Let me get this straight, RIV owners are upset that they will have more competition at the 7-month booking window now? Is that all?

No, that’s not it at all, It’s about DVD messaging and credibility moving forward in reference to restrictions and what was implicitly implied over the years, especially in the way they let people go on almost two years thinking that Poly tower could very well be considered a new resort and resale owners would be locked out.

And, when they added restrictions to VDH, it seemed to support that was a goal and why some still believed the new tower could be deemed its own association.

 

[cbailey1616]

No, that’s not it at all, It’s about DVD messaging and credibility moving forward in reference to restrictions.

But that's the only direct effect, right? More competition at the 7-month window.

 

[dioxide45]

What Disney should do is admit the restrictions are a mistake and don't work and remove them.

But they do work, it got some people to buy RIV direct.

 

[Sykes]

However, by not saying one way or the other, when at the same time, promoting that the only way to get access to future resorts is to buy direct, and people can see and hear about the new Poly tower, they left peoplewith the impression, even without directly saying it, that maybe that shiny new tower could be off limits as it might be a new resort.

This feels a lot like when when my partner is mad at me and they play out the coming fight in their head for an hour or two before saying anything so in their head we've been fighting for a while even though I was never participating. (Or the time that they woke up mad at me for something that I did in their dream.)

 

[Genie+]

Nothing legal was broken. Perceptions have been broken.

The perception buying a restricted direct is just how DVC is today and it will blend with the others-

Broken. Next restricted resort will look worse now. CFW already has hurdles if fully restricted. At least RIV resale had 5 room sizes, the skyliner and contract double the length of any other option in Crescent Lake area. CFW has one room size, plenty of competition in the area, and now clearer reasons to question buying a restricted resort: the next additions to DVC may be unrestricted, is CFW worth the gamble it may become a fully restricted anomaly like RIV, is it better waiting to see the next option(s), resale has become more intriguing since not locked out of all new DVC options.

The perception direct might be worth spending more because resale would be locked out of the future-

Broken. VGF2 looked like an exception. Not anymore. The likelihood has decreased that resale will lock us out of all or most new DVC additions.

Restrictions are part mind game. DVD opened them. They can get more then they bargained. All the advantages and buyer motivation have a flipside.

 

[Sandisw]

But that's the only direct effect, right? More competition at the 7-month window.

Not sure I follow, but in a way, yes. The program seemed to be moving in a way that fewer and fewer resale points would be part of the system….and now it’s up in the air,

But, it’s not about peoole being upset that others will be able to book, and that peoole wanted some level of exclusivity. But, rather that it boggles some of us to understand how you commit to restrctions and then do something like this as well…

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I just bought a CCR and RIV contract resale on the same day both with the same number of points guess which was cheaper.....RIV. Why, because of the resale restrictions.

Disney INTENTIONALLY mislead RIV owners that they needed to buy direct to stay in any future resorts because of these new resale restriction. Then in the fine print they gave themselves an out clause by saying future resorts may or may not have restrictions. Without these new restrictions in place, there probably was some number of RIV owners that would have bought resale instead.

So either Disney is incompetent, and they have no real long term plan or they are manipulative trying to maximize what they are currently selling without any long term plan. In either case they are stupid as they are breaking the trust that their most loyal customers have for them.

What Disney should do is admit the restrictions are a mistake and don't work and remove them.

Congrats on the purchases! I also just bought some CCV super excited about that!

Anyway, I appreciate you saying this I clearly agree fully but I guess this is the wish-washy way DVD wants to play this

 

[Sandisw]

This feels a lot like when when my partner is mad at me and they play out the coming fight in their head for an hour or two before saying anything so in their head we've been fighting for a while even though I was never participating.

People are simply discussing the consequences of DVDs decision, now that it is clear that restrictions are obviously not as important to them as they once made them seem, and what the fall out of doing something like this could be for their future sales.

 

[emchen]

But that's the only direct effect, right? More competition at the 7-month window.

If you must pinpoint one effect of resale restrictions that owners gripe most about, it certainly is not “more competition at the 7-mo window”. I would say it is the effect on resale value.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

To your point….what will the cabins at Fort Wilderness have as their terms? They are certainly part of an existing resort. So how will the terms of their association be handled? That word isn’t in there at all. That is the devil in the wiggle room details and it could go either way

Once again, I am a proponent of just having them get rid of the restrictions and being done with it. We’ll all find out what they decide whenever they decide it

There is no existing DVC resort at Fort Wilderness so no existing association to join. Seems like CFW would have to be a new DVC association and DVC has already announced it as the 17th DVC resort.

 

[Genie+]

If you must pinpoint one effect of resale restrictions that owners gripe most about, it certainly is not “more competition at the 7-mo window”. I would say it is the effect on resale value.

And the importance restrictions had for buying direct.

 

[DougEMG]

There is no existing DVC resort at Fort Wilderness so no existing association to join. Seems like CFW would have to be a new DVC association and DVC has already announced it as the 17th DVC resort.

Someone should start a poll on wither CFW will have resale restrictions or not.

Personally I think CFW will be an extremely hard sell with resale restrictions. That is one resort I would not buy resale with resale restrictions.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

The restrictions also work from another angle… I can’t use my resale points at RIV, which is a beautiful resort I adore. I don’t need to buy RIV points but I do need to use my direct points or buy more direct points from RIV or somewhere to stay there. DVC is not just targeting RIV buyers with their restrictions. They want to steer all buyers to direct. If you want to have the option to stay at all DVC resorts including RIV, VDH, likely CFW and resorts we don’t know about yet, you now need to buy directly from Disney. That’s their strategy. There are currently enough restrictions that this strategy works even without restricting existing association expansions at VGF and Poly. I’m not saying I like it. I’m just saying this is Disney’s strategy.

 

[zavandor]

You’re right that nothing changes on literal paper. That’s fair. But if people are just going to keep pretending like this doesn’t affect the overall value and appeal of a super expensive purchase and everything is as it was before that’s not being fair, honest and, frankly, is being intentionally obtuse.

I guess you're calling me obtuse?

I disagree with what you write here.
Once you have bought, because of the resale restrictions, your RIV contract immediately loses its resale value. Anyone buying from you will have restricted points so they will pay less for it.
Also, the resale restrictions won't help you to trade into other resorts with restrictions. There will be fewer people competing at 7 months, but there will be also fewer people trading out because they cannot. The balance is probably neutral.
The resale restrictions help only Disney, they don't help owners in any way. Except, it might feel them better because they own something they have paid more to get a right that others don't have.
That's an illusion of exclusivity.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I guess you're calling me obtuse?

I disagree with what you write here.
Once you have bought, because of the resale restrictions, your RIV contract immediately loses its resale value. Anyone buying from you will have restricted points so they will pay less for it.
Also, the resale restrictions won't help you to trade into other resorts with restrictions. There will be fewer people competing at 7 months, but there will be also fewer people trading out because they cannot. The balance is probably neutral.
The resale restrictions help only Disney, they don't help owners in any way. Except, it might feel them better because they own something they have paid more to get a right that others don't have.
That's an illusion of exclusivity.

To be fair, all resale points since 2019 are restricted, just not in the same way nor with the same impact in 2023. Riviera restrictions are certainly different than the use restrictions for the O14 resorts, but they are restricted.

I do agree with you that restrictions help Disney and don't benefit owners.

 

[CarolynFH]

Someone should start a poll on wither CFW will have resale restrictions or not.

Personally I think CFW will be an extremely hard sell with resale restrictions. That is one resort I would not buy resale with resale restrictions.

I’ve just started wondering whether DVD will announce that the Ft. Wilderness Cabins are simply the first phase of the Ft. Wilderness DVC Resort, which will be completed by a new building including traditional studios and 1, 2, and 3 bedroom villas to be constructed on the site of Reflections.