Air Safety Concerns (first hand uh ohs)

[Leigh123]

First let me say I am not afraid to fly, and do so all the time for work and personal. If we are afraid then they have won. Here are 3 things at three different airports for three different airlines that have greatly disturbed me.

1. Flying home from Orlando in Sept, we were told our luggage (2 out of our 3 checked bags) had been chosen to be x-rayed, the US Air employee then asked us "Which bag do you have film in, we wont x-ray that one". Now had I been a person trying to do something I shouldn't, this would have been an out for me to get something dangerous on board. Also I always thought since 9/11 all bags were x-rayed.

2. In flying out of Corpus Christie Texas on Continental, the attendant did not even ask to see my ID when I checked in. I had to ask her if she wanted to see it, AFTER she gave me my boarding passes.

3. This one is just kind of funny. In Atlanta flying on Air Tran I was picked to have my checked luggage searched. So the lady took me over to the table and started taking everything out. She came to a can of spray starch and told me this was not permitted materials on a flight. I told her no problem it only costs a dollar and some change and I would just throw it away...she then said "oh I will take that , I would hate to see it go to waste".
I then got to thinking, everytime in my life I have flown, I have packed starch.

4. This one was not a safety risk, it just bothered me. Flying out of Houston I was picked to be searched as we were boarding the plane. I believe this again was on Continental Airlines...So as the lady has me over to the side doing the wand and I am am taking my shoes off etc, I notice another lady at the table going through my bag. I then saw her taking cash and credit cards out of my wallet to examine the contents of my NOW empty wallet. I asked her to please wait until I came over if she was going to do that...I found that very odd.


On incident one and two I am now regretting not reporting this to the airline. When something like that happens I often think "Oh I would hate to see the peron lose their job, what if they support their family, and would lose their house and on and on"....but in retrospect I am sorry I did not...I now think it was my duty as a citizen of this country. I assure you next time I will report them. They could be the cause of people losing thier lives....Just thought I would share these experiences.

 

[Poly Pal]

Those "at the gate random searches" don't make any sense to me. What that says is "the guys at the security check point miss things." If they continue with them, the least they should do is do some profiling before they pick people. To me it does not make sense to pull individuals out of a family travelling together with children, who are premium frequent flyers of that airline, who booked round trip tickets, who have future reservations with the same airline, etc. The airlines have all of that information in their computer systems. Why not use it?

 

[betterlatethannever]

I don't understand these at the gate searches either when you know when you get your boarding pass if you are going to be searched.

Southwest Airlines put at bold crosshatched pattern across the bottom of the ticket (looks like a chain link fence) on those to be searched. They even announce before boarding that if you have one of these tickets to come up to the security table. NOW WOULDN'T YOU GIVE ANYTHING CONTRABAND TO YOUR TRAVELING COMPANION?

Yesterday, coming back from Greensboro on US air, there was a big *S* on the boarding pass, and the ticket counter agent scribbles a big S on the boarding pass to make sure the gate agent sees it. Yes I was searched.

They did a super thorough search. Took everything out of my briefcase and my suitcase. You know how you roll clothes to minimize wrinkles and pack to avoid getting things broken or spilled. Well forget that. They just put everything back hapazardly. The papers in my briefcase were rearranged. Very frustrating.

This took place before the government took over security. Flying back from MSP on Northwest, I was sitting at the gate waiting; a man came up to the ticket agent at the counter and asked if he was going to be selected for a search. The agent told the man he couldn't give him that information because of security reasons. The man walked away. When the security people came to the gate about 15 minutes prior to boarding, this same man walked up to them and asked the same question. The woman security guard looked at her list and told him no he wasn't on the list to be searched. This is security?!!!

Ed

 

[Poly Pal]

I've been searched and never had an "S" or anything else on my boarding pass that was any different than any other boarding pass. Once I was searched simply because I was first in line when they called my row to board. I've seen other people pulled out of line at random BEFORE the security people would have seen the boarding pass. Last month in Cincinnatti, the security people just walked into the gate waiting area and asked one guy if he was travelling on the flight about to depart. He was and they motioned him over to the table set aside for these silly random searches.

No rhyme or reason. Just more hassle. And actually sort of un-reassuring about the state of airport security.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

If they continue with them, the least they should do is do some profiling before they pick people. To me it does not make sense to pull individuals out of a family travelling together with children, who are premium frequent flyers of that airline, who booked round trip tickets, who have future reservations with the same airline, etc. The airlines have all of that information in their computer systems. Why not use it?

And....what would your criteria be for this profiling? The searches are at random without regard to your status. Which, IMHO, is the most fair way to do it. If they went by your suggestion, anyone wanting to something evil could fit your profile of a frequent flier, with advance ressies etc. The element of surprise for searches is the best way, so far.

No system is perfect, and some good points have been mentioned. My suggestion, write to the FAA with them.

 

[CarolA]

I firmly believe there is profiling on the search. For example if I fly on a one way ticket with no checked baggage I always get searched. I think that some of the profiling is actually to balance out the searches. (For example if you pick me you get to check that you searched a white female to counteract searching lots of males of other backgrounds!)

 

[Leigh123]

I get searched almost everytime I fly. I am a female 32 blonde hair blue eyes so one would think if they were profiling for the searches based on steroetyping from the 9/11 attacks I would not get picked that often. I do make a lot of last minute flight arrangements, and often travel alone on multiple airlines for business purposes so that could be the cause of the searches. I do not mind being searched and I will always comply without giving them a hard time..the point of my original post was the 2 very UNSAFE incidents..one in Orlando and one in Corpus. Why search me if you are going to let me pick what NOT to search and if I am being searched so the airline can cover themselves on being accused of racial profiling, you should check my ID at least.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Why search me if you are going to let me pick what NOT to search and if I am being searched so the airline can cover themselves on being accused of racial profiling, you should check my ID at least.

Excellent points. I wonder why they did not just take the film out and xray the bag? Kind of weird and I would write to the "powers that be" regarding these experiences.

 

[peachgirl]

If they continue with them, the least they should do is do some profiling before they pick people.

I agree, but just whisper the word profiling and there are those that go off the wall. Profiling such as you suggest makes sense to me. If you have a long history of flying, making round trips, traveling with children, checked luggage, etc., you're liklihood of being the "bad guy" is significantly lower than someone who has no luggage, flying one way, bought a last minute ticket..etc. I suppose, after a time, those wanting to do something will change their methods to fit the "profile" of a low risk traveller, but that's no different than it's always been. This summer on our flight out to Las Vegas and on our flight home they took the first person in line to check. I thought just a coincidence at the time, but my sister traveled to Las Vegas 2 months later on the same airline and they did the exact same thing. Now there's a system that'll keep 'em guessing!

 

[DVC-Don]

Originally posted by betterlatethannever


Southwest Airlines put at bold crosshatched pattern across the bottom of the ticket (looks like a chain link fence) on those to be searched. They even announce before boarding that if you have one of these tickets to come up to the security table.

Ed

I've only been pulled for a gate check twice. Both on Southwest, but neither time did I have the above mark on my pass. Nor did I hear any annoucement to come to the security table if you have a marked ticket.

Both times I was flying alone though. Once in Baltimore where I got tapped on the shoulder as my group was headed for the gate. The second time was Tampa where they pulled me prior to any groups being called. That time was fine as they finished with me and let me board even before the pre-boards.

 

[seashoreCM]

You need to speak up.

When they say they need to X-ray your bags, you pick up the bag with the film in it and you take the film out, on the spot.

The film should be in one of those trays all by itself. This way it will go through the X-ray machine fast. If the film is buried in the suitcase, the suitcase sits under the X-rays for a long time while the security people stare at and point at the screen on the other side.

Next, you take back your wallet before going along with the wand agent. Wait for it to come out of the X-ray machine first. If you forget and then see another agent taking money out of your wallet, you immediately walk out from under the wand over to your wallet. Better yet, keep your wallet with you or at least put your money and valuables in your pocket.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[Leigh123]

Seashore

Perhaps I was not clear....the Xray incident occured when we first got to the airport and checked in to check our baggage and get our boarding passes..not when we went through the metal detectors, so there were no trays available.

The wallet incident occured at the boarding gate, so it was very hectic and happened very fast

 

[anniet]

The film thing seemed odd to me too....I travel with a photojournalist and I have always been more concerned about x-rays and film than he has. He tells me the x-rays aren't strong enough to do damage to the film!

I too was chosen to have my carry on searched before boarding Southwest last March and in the bottom of my carry on I had a hard sided square lunch bag. They never opened it. I could have stuffed anything in it. Of course, it was only holding Disney baby gifts for my new godson, but they didn't know that!

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

I've only been pulled for a gate check twice. Both on Southwest, but neither time did I have the above mark on my pass. Nor did I hear any annoucement to come to the security table if you have a marked ticket.

I have never been searched, however, I do fly SWA and the agent goes up and down the lines looking at the tickets and pulls the people with the "mark" from the line. From what I have been told, there is an x on the pass. I have yet to hear an announcment either.

 

[Poly Pal]

I didn't mean to start a debate over profiling! Gail H. I agree that the "pick and choose" at random is fair. HOWEVER, security measures do not need to be fair, they need to be effective.

When little old ladies, families with children, and folks in wheel chairs start taking over planes and flying them into buildings, then we should start searching them. Until then, why not focus the effort on the most likely bad guys?

 

[Luv2Roam]

My oldest sister just returned from Polland. She and one her granddaughters went there for a student cultural exchange program.
She said no luggage of anyone in their group's was checked, searched or even looked at even briefly on their return flight to the states.
Does make me wonder how other countries handle their security.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

When little old ladies, families with children, and folks in wheel chairs start taking over planes and flying them into buildings, then we should start searching them. Until then, why not focus the effort on the most likely bad guys?

And, who are they, that is my question? We learned a lot about profiling this past month with the unfortunate incident re: the snipers in DC area. The "profile" would have indicated a white male. Surprise, it did not work. Profiling is correct about 55% of the time, the rest of the time it is guesswork.

I will admit, that some of it seems silly, but, keeping it random will, IMHO, keep the bad guys wondering. I don't have all the answers (wish I did) but, right now, the only complaining I have heard is from people who simply don't accept the idea that this is, unfortunately, the way it is and they will have to learn to live with the ramdom checks. A lot of time could be eliminated if people did not insist on bringing every bit of luggage they own on the plane and if the airlines would insist that people follow the rules.

I detest profiling, I see it all too often on my commute to work.
The town below me practices this on a continual basis. When you start this practice, where does it end? Not all terrorists are middle eastern males. Not all terrorists are south american males.
Terrorists can come in any race or gender. I would not put it past some to use their children in their fervor, nor would I put it past a little old lady or someone in a wheelchair to be a terrorist.
Until they figure out a more fair way (readne that suits particular people) this is the way it is. Dee was searched because he failed to remove the laptop from the case, like most men he does not read signs. LOL He was also searched because the laptop case held our digital cameras also, but the thing that really upset security was the itsy bitsy monopod for the digital camera. Guess it looked like a transmitter to them.
Now, Dee is an African American, do we think he was profiled? Nope. We both feel it was a legitimate search. We are, however, frequent fliers and he was with me a total WASP. Should he have been exempted because he fit a profile? I don't think so.
I will be the first to admit that some of the stories I have read here defy belief (I don't mean that the people here are misleading anyone, I mean that some of the security is darn right silly), but, like all things, nothing is perfect.

 

[disneywith6kids]

My DH is a police officer so it will be interesting to see how they handle him.We already informed Delta of it and told them he will be bringing his off duty gun locked and double locked within the checked baggage as per procedure. I wonder if they will just accept his police id or call to verify. I'll let you know

 

[Leigh123]

After much deliberation I sent US Air an email on my Orlando Airport incident that started this thread...first you will see my response to their email, then you will see what they sent me first
Thank you for your response...but I doubt I will fly with you again. I have
always found your airline to be superior in the past but my safety is not
something I can take lightly such as bad service in a restaurant, if that
happened I may try the restaurant again...big difference between the
two...thanks again for your response.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Consumer Affairs" <Consumer_Affairs@usairways.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: 544-20021100449 US AIRWAYS OFFICE OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS


>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your experience with
baggage
> security at the ticket counter in Orlando on September 12. I appreciate
the
> opportunity to respond on behalf of US Airways.
>
> We regret our customer service agent did not apply security procedures in
> compliance with our baggage policies. In the wake of the tragic events on
> September 11, 2001, it is very important that our personnel are making
every
> effort to ensure the safety and security of our customers, and I can
> understand your disappointment. I have shared your comments with our
Orlando
> Station Manager for internal review with our customer service staff and I
am
> confident measures will be taken to improve our baggage security in the
future.
>
> Ms. Harding, thank you again for sharing this important matter with us.
We
> appreciate your business and hope you will continue to select US Airways
for
> all of your air travel needs.
>
>
>
>

 

[BobH]

1. Airlines are cheap.They'll never spend the money to do security totally right unless the public forces them to.

2.Get rid of all carryon luggage. This will make security infinitely easier.

3.Concentrate entire effort on x - raying all checked bags.

4.Air marshall on very plane (like El Al) to cancel the tickets of
those who are threats.

5.No politicians and most travelers can't agree on what is needed
so the airlines will remain free to treat their budgets as more
important than their security.