Back to School during the pandemic ...a discussion thread

[scrappinginontario]

Horror story from out west... After a further 2 1/2 week delay to start the semester for Hub (online students - primarily core subjects), classes finally started this week.

One might have thought with six months to plan, the Calgary Board might have figured this out, but no.

Rather than saying something like Monday = math, Tuesday = science, or math = an hour 3x a week between 8 and 10, science = an hour 3x a week between 10 and noon, etc., Hub teachers have been given the flexibility to schedule classes at their convenience (this is not me bashing teachers...)

So it turns out that online class times for my high schooler’s four classes this semester change from day to day. After two teaching days last week, my daughter has had classes scheduled at the same time on both days.

It’s an easy decision if it’s math vs. French, but she’s already had to make the decision of math vs. chemistry. The message from the Board is essentially “we tried our best, but it is what it is”.

I’m fortunate enough that I can help her with social studies and can afford a weekly online tutor for her in math and chem, but I know that most aren’t in the same position.

Seriously, how could administration not have figured this out at some point since March???

We knew that online wouldn’t be as good as being in every class every day, and that it would mean less instructional time - and given that Alberta Health Services declared an outbreak at her school in the first week of classes, we made the right decision - but I guess my expectation of a minimal level of competence from the decision makers was misplaced.

How did they think it could possibly work when they ask teachers to choose when they want to teach? Setting up timetables for students takes a ton of tine and coordination. Asking teachers to choose (also not slighting the teachers) means students will loose out in valuable teaching time as class tunes get double booked. I’m sorry you’re having to navigate this!!

 

[pigletto]

Some posts are dangerously close to being political. Dial it back a notch people.

I wasn’t arguing politics, but pointing out the biases . I’m sure the admin will let us know if lines are crossed.

 

[pigletto]

Horror story from out west... After a further 2 1/2 week delay to start the semester for Hub (online students - primarily core subjects), classes finally started this week.

One might have thought with six months to plan, the Calgary Board might have figured this out, but no.

Rather than saying something like Monday = math, Tuesday = science, or math = an hour 3x a week between 8 and 10, science = an hour 3x a week between 10 and noon, etc., Hub teachers have been given the flexibility to schedule classes at their convenience (this is not me bashing teachers...)

So it turns out that online class times for my high schooler’s four classes this semester change from day to day. After two teaching days last week, my daughter has had classes scheduled at the same time on both days.

It’s an easy decision if it’s math vs. French, but she’s already had to make the decision of math vs. chemistry. The message from the Board is essentially “we tried our best, but it is what it is”.

I’m fortunate enough that I can help her with social studies and can afford a weekly online tutor for her in math and chem, but I know that most aren’t in the same position.

Seriously, how could administration not have figured this out at some point since March???

We knew that online wouldn’t be as good as being in every class every day, and that it would mean less instructional time - and given that Alberta Health Services declared an outbreak at her school in the first week of classes, we made the right decision - but I guess my expectation of a minimal level of competence from the decision makers was misplaced.

This must be very frustrating for your daughter. I can’t fathom how this couldn’t have been figured out before now.

 

[hdrolfe]

The schools here are having a hard time keeping teachers, or having enough of them I guess. The public board is warning parents that schools may close. This whole thing is just nuts. So many classes and even schools here being closed.

 

[wdwmom3]

Ok I think I’m missing something with the schools. Everyone keeps saying in person classes aren’t much smaller. And I keep hearing there aren’t enough teachers for online. That they have had to hire a lot of new teachers and online classes are huge.

Well the number of students hasn’t jumped drastically. So where did all the teachers go? With the same number of students wouldn’t they just have to shift existing teachers around? Maybe hire some new teachers? Am I missing something?

 

[hdrolfe]

From the article I read about teachers here, when teachers have to isolate for 14 days, so they can't teach, they need a substitute for the full time. Meanwhile there is a limit of 50 days a substitute can work in a year, or perhaps that's the retired teachers? So at least one board here has the teacher set up the lessons for the students and then they have someone who is not a teacher but works for the board sit in the room with the students while they do the work. This is more than they'd normally need to use in a year, add in that a lot of the substitutes from previous years possibly got hired to work full time for the year because of the online, there aren't enough occasional teachers.

I believe they are also limiting the number of schools a particular substitute can work in, at least there was talk of that in the beginning, I'm not sure how it has played out.

Not sure if the link will work.

https://www.ottawamatters.com/local...cdsb-working-to-avoid-school-closures-2742471

 

[Disneylover99]

Ok I think I’m missing something with the schools. Everyone keeps saying in person classes aren’t much smaller. And I keep hearing there aren’t enough teachers for online. That they have had to hire a lot of new teachers and online classes are huge.

Well the number of students hasn’t jumped drastically. So where did all the teachers go? With the same number of students wouldn’t they just have to shift existing teachers around? Maybe hire some new teachers? Am I missing something?

I can only speak about the TDSB, but in school class sizes have been getting smaller as parents choose to pull their children and opt for online. I know there are supposed to be specific entry/exit points to make these changes, but I think the board has been very flexible with parents. They won’t just clapse classes at this point to pull in school teachers into remote so they need to hire.

Also, a lot of older teachers or teachers with underlying health problems have opted to not come back. I think the supply teacher bank has been depleted. And now they need a separate supply teacher bank of teachers for Online and in school.

 

[wdwmom3]

I can only speak about the TDSB, but in school class sizes have been getting smaller as parents choose to pull their children and opt for online. I know there are supposed to be specific entry/exit points to make these changes, but I think the board has been very flexible with parents. They won’t just clapse classes at this point to pull in school teachers into remote so they need to hire.

Also, a lot of older teachers or teachers with underlying health problems have opted to not come back. I think the supply teacher bank has been depleted. And now they need a separate supply teacher bank of teachers for Online and in school.

Ok so then class sizes must not be as big as some people are claiming? I mean it doesn’t make sense that you have big in person classes and huge online classes but still don’t have enough teachers.

Also why do you need separate supply lists for in person and online?

 

[Disneylover99]

Ok so then class sizes must not be as big as some people are claiming? I mean it doesn’t make sense that you have big in person classes and huge online classes but still don’t have enough teachers.

Well, I think it’s just a shift of where the students are at the moment. For the most part, in school class sizes started out at capacity or close to it. But that differs from school to school depending on how many students per grade opted to return to school. I know there are lots of split classes and there was even talk of triple split classes to max out the students in class, but I don’t think it actually went to that. So some 2 split grades may have way fewer students than the max.

Also why do you need separate supply lists for in person and online?

No idea. That’s just what I was told.

I’m assuming there are many supply teachers who would do remote but wouldn’t be comfortable going into a school and many supply teachers who are willing to go into a school, but wouldn’t feel capable of teaching remote.

Maybe some supply teachers can be on both lists. I’m not sure.

 

[DiaryofaDisneyKid]

I always get confused when they mention having to turn classes into a split class at TDSB. Do they not normally not have split classes in the schools or are they just making more classes splits? Our school has always had split classes so nothing is really that different. They did get rid of the 3/4 probably because it would be hard to enforce mask wearing for only half the class.

 

[Pumpkin1172]

Horror story from out west... After a further 2 1/2 week delay to start the semester for Hub (online students - primarily core subjects), classes finally started this week.

One might have thought with six months to plan, the Calgary Board might have figured this out, but no.

Rather than saying something like Monday = math, Tuesday = science, or math = an hour 3x a week between 8 and 10, science = an hour 3x a week between 10 and noon, etc., Hub teachers have been given the flexibility to schedule classes at their convenience (this is not me bashing teachers...)

So it turns out that online class times for my high schooler’s four classes this semester change from day to day. After two teaching days last week, my daughter has had classes scheduled at the same time on both days.

It’s an easy decision if it’s math vs. French, but she’s already had to make the decision of math vs. chemistry. The message from the Board is essentially “we tried our best, but it is what it is”.

I’m fortunate enough that I can help her with social studies and can afford a weekly online tutor for her in math and chem, but I know that most aren’t in the same position.

Seriously, how could administration not have figured this out at some point since March???

We knew that online wouldn’t be as good as being in every class every day, and that it would mean less instructional time - and given that Alberta Health Services declared an outbreak at her school in the first week of classes, we made the right decision - but I guess my expectation of a minimal level of competence from the decision makers was misplaced.

I am so sorry that the classes are working out that way.

We too, are in Alberta ( think northern redneck area ) and that was one of the reasons we opted to NOT put our ds into online classes. Both school boards here, would not guarantee that there would be enough teachers or students for online classes. We were not guaranteed that there would not be multiple grades for one class. They could not answer questions on how they were going to deliver the classes, how assignments would work, deadlines for assignments, if my ds was struggling with a certain part of the current cirriculum, how would they do more " one on one " teaching. There were ZERO answers for that. Our ds really did not want to do online. He tried when they were doing online after the covid lockdown, but he said it was soooo unorganized and chaotic, he simply gave up. He wanted to go back to school.

I will say that for our family, that was the best decision. We have told him to keep his ears open for any whispers among his peer group for covid testing. Both myself and dh would NOT want to be the ones to take it into our workplaces - or have to stay home to isolate and loose our wages for 2 weeks.

I will say that our area has been very low in covid numbers. We did see a spike up to 12 active cases when school opened with " outbreaks " at 3 ( if I am remembering correctly ) schools. But now we are sitting at no new cases for over a week and are only at 5 active cases. We have been very lucky in our area. People of course were upset when some classrooms were isolated. But with our numbers now, people are realizing how we can control " outbreaks " ( and Alberta considers an outbreak at 2 people in the same space ) by social distancing and staying home, and get tested if needed.

 

[Disneylover99]

I always get confused when they mention having to turn classes into a split class at TDSB. Do they not normally not have split classes in the schools or are they just making more classes splits? Our school has always had split classes so nothing is really that different. They did get rid of the 3/4 probably because it would be hard to enforce mask wearing for only half the class.

At most schools in the tdsb, it does seem the norm nowadays. But for the most part, they try to do straight classes when possible. But logistically, it just never seems to work out.

 

[DiaryofaDisneyKid]

At most schools in the tdsb, it does seem the norm nowadays. But for the most part, they try to do straight classes when possible. But logistically, it just never seems to work out.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Our school always seems to have 1 straight class for each grade plus a split class. Occasionally they will have 2 full classes like Grade 8 this year. My oldest is in Grade 8 and I guess in our area that must have been a baby boom year, LOL.

 

[bankr63]

Ok so then class sizes must not be as big as some people are claiming? I mean it doesn’t make sense that you have big in person classes and huge online classes but still don’t have enough teachers.

Also why do you need separate supply lists for in person and online?

As @Disneylover99 indicates, there are a lot of forces at play here.

First, a great many more teachers than normal took early retirement this year rather than returning. In DW's school there were 2 early, and 1 scheduled retirement. Believe me, she considered it herself. A great many teachers then sought accommodations due to underlying health issues. Many were granted but many more were not (hopefully most of these are teaching online instead). So we are starting with a deficit of teachers. Now also consider that teaching is no longer the esteemed profession it once was; there are not a lot of available trained teachers waiting in the wings to step in. A great many people with teaching credentials end up in different careers because it is so difficult to break into teaching (usually takes several years of very unstable STO/LTO and partial positions before you get a full time assignment). If you have moved to another career with decent pay, would you return to teaching THIS year of all years? Probably not.

Now pressure on supply teachers. Most teachers will teach through any health issue unless they literally cannot get out of bed. But this year, if they wake up with the slightest of symptoms, they must not go to work, and must isolate until symptoms have been absent for 24 hours. That is a lot more time off work than in previous years. But who are the supply teachers. A great many of them are retired teachers who are supplementing their retirement income. They do not HAVE to work, they CHOOSE to work because it is convenient to them. They are generally a bit older than those teachers who are just reaching retirement, so are at greater risk than the main body of teachers. So I ask you, if you were in that situation, would YOU return to work if you didn't have to? Lots did not return.

ETA: This is not to imply these are the only pressures, just a couple of the ones I am aware of.

To answer another question, it was just communicated last week that supply or occasional teachers are able to teach in multiple schools, could be up to 5 (or more) per week. This was on advice of Public Health and was supported by the board and union, although I can tell you that occasional teachers are generally not very happy. But in thinking it through, I doubt this shifting about will happen much. Most schools will have no problem keeping their DOTs (designated occasional teachers) busy every day based on the conditions outlined above.

So here we are 4 weeks into the school year for some, Ottawa's largest board is just starting the 2nd full week of classes. As reported in the Citizen this weekend, nearly 20% of Ottawa schools are already reporting at least one case of COVID-19. It will be very hard to keep a lid on this, but they are doing their absolute best to keep the students safe with the resources available to them. And that is one of the messages delivered to teachers this year - it is safety first, education second.

 

[Iralyn]

Now pressure on supply teachers. Most teachers will teach through any health issue unless they literally cannot get out of bed. But this year, if they wake up with the slightest of symptoms, they must not go to work, and must isolate until symptoms have been absent for 24 hours. That is a lot more time off work than in previous years. But who are the supply teachers. A great many of them are retired teachers who are supplementing their retirement income. They do not HAVE to work, they CHOOSE to work because it is convenient to them. They are generally a bit older than those teachers who are just reaching retirement, so are at greater risk than the main body of teachers. So I ask you, if you were in that situation, would YOU return to work if you didn't have to? Lots did not return.

It is dependent upon school board/health unit, but in many places it is 24 hours symptom-free PLUS a negative covid test. And delays in getting appointments for test plus wait times for results are now often 5 to 7 days or longer (we are on day 8 of waiting and I've heard of people who've waited 10 days!). So a lot more supply time needed than in the past. And teachers who have to be off with their school-aged kids with symptoms.

There are also some teachers who've ended up taking child care leaves because they couldn't find day care for little ones. And likely a higher than usual number on stress leave.

I think the class sizes are really variable. Some boards have continued to collapse classes and reassign teachers but others have chosen not to after a certain point (obviously it changes up cohorts, etc.) so when people have moved to online (in boards that haven't enforced a firm cutoff date) or withdrawn their kids to homeschool, the classes have become smaller in some cases. So there are still classes of 30 in places but also classes of 15.

 

[CanadianKrista]

Honestly, this whole thing is a circus. Between the colds that are keeping kids, their siblings, their parents out of work/school/teaching, and the long line ups for testing, and the long wait for results.....my kids have had less days in school than out, and I don't see it getting any better any time soon. They are not getting an education right now. I'm stressed every morning about whether I should or should not be sending them to school. I wonder if their classmates are home waiting for tests. I wonder if their teachers are out, and a supply teacher is in who either 1. is high risk and really shouldn't be in a school or 2. has been in multiples schools, knowing a 5th of school in our board have cases.... I reload the board dashboard multiple times a day wondering if this is the time I'll see cases in their schools. For some places where the cases are low, and the rules can be a little more flexible, in person school makes sense. For the hot spots in Ontario and Quebec....well, I feel more and more each day like I really made the wrong choice sending my kids back.

 

[Starwind]

Another factor, at least here in Ontario... According to a radio interview this morning with a representative of the Ontario College of Teachers...

Due to there having been an oversupply of teachers in previous years, recently [they didn't give a timeframe] the teachers colleges in the province have reduced the number of spaces, which has resulted in fewer graduates.

Among other things, new teacher graduates make up a sizable portion of occasional teachers. And they would be who they would turn to to fulfill shortages.

But there aren't enough in part because there were fewer of them to start with.

SW

 

[pigletto]

My 4 year old nephew had his second Covid test today. In a month. He has what his mom is pretty sure is a cold but they voluntarily took him to be sure . You can’t help but feel bad for my nephew though , who has been so stoic about it, he’s four and has had this test twice now. He got McDonalds for being brave . What a year.

 

[MoreTravels]

I remember back in the university days, one professor teaches a class of 500 students.

With teacher shortage and class cancellation, wouldn't it better to organize online classes across Ontario so the students from Ottawa can attend the same class with students from Windsor? They organize one class with 500 students, and hire a few university students as TA to help with homework correction and Q/A. It would be better than keep postponing and cancelling classes week after week.

 

[AngelDisney]

The students in Virtual School are still students of their day school. The day school is overseeing scheduling and providing support when needed. So, I don’t think it’s possible to cross school boards due to funding.