Bean Counters and shortsightedness

[Smugpugmug]

Not to mention every E-ticket was basically gone at 60 days to resort guests where at least today all guests have somewhat of a fighter’s chance, just happens to cost $.

The first time I ever rode Slinky was May 2022 due to being an offsite peasant during the Fastpass+ era.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

The first time I ever rode Slinky was May 2022 due to being an offsite peasant during the Fastpass+ era.

i still haven't, too much wait for a kiddie coaster

 

[Smugpugmug]

i still haven't, too much wait for a kiddie coaster

You're not missing much. Remove the themed ride vehicles and it's a standard coaster you would see at a regional amusement park like Six Flags.

Also no shade in the queue? In Florida? Nah I'm good thanks.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Also no shade in the queue? In Florida? Nah I'm good thanks.

Reason I started my last trip with the DHS After Hours Party. Fit all of the rides in at night, caught Fantasmic!, and ended the evening stocking our bags full of the included bottled water and soda to have for the remainder of our trip.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Reason I started my last trip with the DHS After Hours Party. Fit all of the rides in at night, caught Fantasmic!, and ended the evening stocking our bags full of the included bottled water and soda to have for the remainder of our trip.

It wouldn't surprise me in any way if more people started doing "after hours/special event" only trips. As in, skip paying for day tickets and only do the after hours for the lower crowds.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It wouldn't surprise me in any way if more people started doing "after hours/special event" only trips. As in, skip paying for day tickets and only do the after hours for the lower crowds.

I think that’s already started happening, I know three people who doing long weekends this year for MNSSHP and a day of food and wine

 

[Smugpugmug]

I think that’s already started happening, I know three people who doing long weekends this year for MNSSHP and a day of food and wine

Literally doing the same in 2 weeks. Half of the family is going to just MNSSHP and Food and Wine while me and my dad are doing just HHN, no Disney.

 

[Brian Noble]

i still haven't, too much wait for a kiddie coaster

Yeah, my daughter and I (both coaster enthusiasts) called it a one-and-done. I'll ride it if it is sub 30 minutes. Maybe.

You look at the layout, and then wonder how they managed to build that while delivering an almost entirely forceless ride. I mean, how do you get the ride to go fast enough to clear those little bunny hills at the end while going slow enough that there is no airtime? That's hard to do!

Remove the themed ride vehicles and it's a standard coaster you would see at a regional amusement park like Six Flags.

...except that the coasters at the regional park would have some dynamic forces somewhere.

 

[New Mouse]

I mean wait times have been pretty tolerable lately, but they also can only control crowd movement so much. they may schedule a day for lower crowds when a giant swath of guests shows up at MK and EPCOT is empty in comparison. I think it's a lot more complex than we think.

This basically never happens. Their data analytics surpass most companies even pre park reservations and magic bands.

One of the reasons they could get away with charging 100 plus for a day was because they delivered top quality service and product. That no longer happens in several areas.... hotels....food and beverage and attractions top the list.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

This basically never happens. Their data analytics surpass most companies even pre park reservations and magic bands.

One of the reasons they could get away with charging 100 plus for a day was because they delivered top quality service and product. That no longer happens in several areas.... hotels....food and beverage and attractions top the list.

I’ve said this a bunch, but based on demand I would disagree

 

[New Mouse]

I’ve said this a bunch, but based on demand I would disagree

That data on actual demand disagrees with you. People in the parks is down. If the parks were priced more appropriately that would go up.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

That data on actual demand disagrees with you. People in the parks is down. If the parks were priced more appropriately that would go up.

i Don’t want to belabor the point anymore, there is plenty of good information in this thread that would clear this up if you choose to read it

 

[DisFanDad]

Capacity is almost always staffing. You can put more logs on splash*, but unless you open the third load bay, it doesn't matter---and you can't open that bay unless you have the Cast scheduled to work it.

That's probably true in other places where it isn't as obvious. Thunder, for example, probably needs more people checking restraints when they have all five trains on or they can't make the shorter intervals.

So there is probably a limit as to how responsive they can be when they get it wrong, and I am sure there is a limit to how willing they are to schedule "just in case" staff.

-----
Well, you can't anymore, but you get what I mean.

And that staffing is a lot of how they are reducing operating costs / overhead - lower staffing levels. Of course we can (we don't have to) cut them a break on the return to operations casting, when they were obviously understaffed due to their decision to lay of 10s of thousands of employees to save money while closed (and no, I don't think a company of Disney's wealth had to do this) - that was going to take time. But, it's 2023, and they are very clearly still doing this. Rather than the pandemic requiring a bunch of adjustments - what I think we've seen a lot more of is the pandemic being the excuse used to make adjustments to increase their profits and lower costs. The same crap they are now pulling with "inflation" (mostly just companies like disney increasing profits). I mean - the other day at the Mara we ordered an adult Mickey waffles $10.49 - it came with 3 waffles instead of 4. We had gotten 4 just a week earlier at Gasparilla, 4 at Roaring Fork at Wilderness, then 3 at The Mara - I asked about this and in one sentence the manager mentioned Covid 19 and inflation as part of his response to me. A kid waffle (2 waffles, 2 sides, 1 drink) is 7.59 so for 1 more waffle they charge $3.00, no drink. Neither inflation (whats the inflation on a 10cent waffle?) or the pandemic accounts for this - its just greed, it's just nicke and diming.

 

[DisFanDad]

I’ve said this a bunch, but based on demand I would disagree

Demand is down - massively - you've acknowledge this, but keep assessing things as if its not.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Demand is down - massively - you've acknowledge this, but keep assessing things as if it’s not.

i am assessing based on information across the entire landscape, if Disney saw a drop off which none of their competition suffered from, I would take that into account. Since that is not the case, I am not going to lambaste Disney as it has farther reaches than just Disney alone. I then break down what could be causing a slow down in crowds in the region, and for that matter domestically. I can then attempt to puzzle out why this is happening, does it mean I’m correct, no, but it does give a better view of the situation, and keeps emotion out of the equation.

i just can’t jump on board with someone who’s argument is based solely on how they feel (on an emotional level) about a particular issue. For instance, crowds are down which automatically means people have distain for Disney without a shred of data to back that, outside of making assumption of how people feel. Provide some evidence that isn’t purely speculation or anecdotal, and we’re cooking with gas, until then good day

 

[ChipnDale79]

i am assessing based on information across the entire landscape, if Disney saw a drop off which none of their competition suffered from, I would take that into account. Since that is not the case, I am not going to lambaste Disney as it has farther reaches than just Disney alone. I then break down what could be causing a slow down in crowds in the region, and for that matter domestically. I can then attempt to puzzle out why this is happening, does it mean I’m correct, no, but it does give a better view of the situation, and keeps emotion out of the equation.

i just can’t jump on board with someone who’s argument is based solely on how they feel (on an emotional level) about a particular issue. For instance, crowds are down which automatically means people have distain for Disney without a shred of data to back that, outside of making assumption of how people feel. Provide some evidence that isn’t purely speculation or anecdotal, and we’re cooking for its gas, until then good day

one of the things about this board; is that the vast majority of us are massive disney fans. a lot of us have felt let down by something that we really enjoy based off of wall street decisions over the past decade or so.

there is nothing wrong with that.

a lot of us have paid thousands and thousands of dollars to visit disney parks multiple times. when things change, people are going to vent. Sometimes i feel like this forum is a place for people to come to vent to other people that love the same thing as them.

There are a lot of strong emotions towards disney parks and the company in general.

The people on these forums know these parks like the back of their hand, and understand a lot about demand and crowds. we study when the best time is to go based on many factors, including crowd level. I'm not saying that the people on this forum are 100% right, but give them a little bit of credit. None of us have inside data.

I really dont understand why time and time again, you seem to argue with many different posters and treat this as some sort of debate club where things must be backed up with data and facts.

let some people vent, you dont have to respond to every single posts that you disagree with.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

one of the things about this board; is that the vast majority of us are massive disney fans. a lot of us have felt let down by something that we really enjoy based off of wall street decisions over the past decade or so.

there is nothing wrong with that.

a lot of us have paid thousands and thousands of dollars to visit disney parks multiple times. when things change, people are going to vent. Sometimes i feel like this forum is a place for people to come to vent to other people that love the same thing as them.

There are a lot of strong emotions towards disney parks and the company in general.

The people on these forums know these parks like the back of their hand, and understand a lot about demand and crowds. we study when the best time is to go based on many factors, including crowd level. I'm not saying that the people on this forum are 100% right, but give them a little bit of credit. None of us have inside data.

I really dont understand why time and time again, you seem to argue with many different posters and treat this as some sort of debate club where things must be backed up with data and facts.

let some people vent, you dont have to respond to every single posts that you disagree with.

People can vent, i have no problem with that. Venting and saying you're upset and let down is different then making accusations/ assertions that have no basis in fact, i am going to challenge people when they riff because it spreads untruths, and people hop on those ideas as if they were somehow confirmed and accurate, and i think people should be presented with actual facts (otherwise known as getting the whole picture). I personally try to stay grounded with the information that's available. It just gets tiring to watch people complain and go unchecked, and then complain about people challenging their complaints. Just because someone has gone to the park and has an understanding of the day to day does not mean they have any understanding of how the business is actually doing, they just have personal experience, which is not typically valuable outside of anecdotal tid bits that can help paint a picture in some cases.

Again venting is all good, just don't make things up out of thin air to make yourself feel better and i won't challenge you on it.

Just so i get this straight, i can comment as long as i'm in agreeance with another poster, but if i disagree i should just keep quiet as to not upset the applecart?

 

[fatmanatee]

i am assessing based on information across the entire landscape, if Disney saw a drop off which none of their competition suffered from, I would take that into account. Since that is not the case, I am not going to lambaste Disney as it has farther reaches than just Disney alone. I then break down what could be causing a slow down in crowds in the region, and for that matter domestically. I can then attempt to puzzle out why this is happening, does it mean I’m correct, no, but it does give a better view of the situation, and keeps emotion out of the equation.

i just can’t jump on board with someone who’s argument is based solely on how they feel (on an emotional level) about a particular issue. For instance, crowds are down which automatically means people have distain for Disney without a shred of data to back that, outside of making assumption of how people feel. Provide some evidence that isn’t purely speculation or anecdotal, and we’re cooking for its gas, until then good day

If you have data/evidence that disproves their argument you should provide it. If you don't then I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing with the limited evidence that we have. As it stands I don't think we'll have a clear view of the situation until the parks report referenced here is released next year.

 

[HokieRaven5]

If you have data/evidence that disproves their argument you should provide it. If you don't then I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing with the limited evidence that we have. As it stands I don't think we'll have a clear view of the situation until the parks report referenced here is released next year.

Just to provide data direct from Disney:

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1744489/000174448923000171/dis-20230701.htm

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1744489/000174448923000099/dis-20230401.htm

For Fiscal 2023 Domestic Park attendance is up 6% so far from Fiscal 2022.

Domestic Hotel Occupancy is at 87% for FY 23 vs 82% for FY22.

Disney’s data doesn’t overlap with TEA directly as their Fiscal Year is from 10/1-9-30.

If we go off calendar year, thus far Domestic Attendance is up 7% for January-April, and 1% for April-July from 2022 numbers.

Hotel Occupancy 89% in 2023 for Jan-April vs 84%, and 84% for 2023 in April-July vs 90% in 2022.

So this summer has so far been softer on those staying onsite, but not a meaningful change just yet in YoY attendance.

Data doesn’t differentiate between WDW and Disneyland.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

If you have data/evidence that disproves their argument you should provide it. If you don't then I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing with the limited evidence that we have. As it stands I don't think we'll have a clear view of the situation until the parks report referenced here is released next year.

if you read the thread data has been provided, if people don't want to read that information i cannot control that, but it is there.

Also your personal belief is not "limited information" it's filling in the blanks with assertions, aka riffing. If someone came out and said do you think it could be caused by X, we could have a conversation and sleuth it out. When someone comes out and demands it to be X with nothing to back it up outside of what they personally believe to be true based on nothing, i will continue to challenge them to clarify.

I am completely open to being wrong and taking on new information to paint a clearer picture, but based on the responses you typically get to asking for clarification and what a person could be basing their opinion on it ends up clarifying that the person is indeed riffing.