Bean Counters and shortsightedness

[Cfabar1]

Ike Perlmutter would be disastrous from a guest perspective. He is the ultimate bean counter and paper clip hoarder. It would be a nightmare I fear. Keep him away from the parks is my view. I hope I’m wrong.

DVC does help Disney offload lots of costs related to resort maintenance especially in DVC buildings that also have common shared areas with cash customers ie boardwalk. DVC does save a ton of money but only because Disney charges obscene amounts to stay at their resorts that no one would pay anywhere else. I say this as a proud DVC member. Also the DVC points charts for new resorts are terrible. Tremendous greed and I do think DVC may be overextending themselves soon.

 

[hildarumpole]

Ike Perlmutter would be disastrous from a guest perspective. He is the ultimate bean counter and paper clip hoarder. It would be a nightmare I fear. Keep him away from the parks is my view. I hope I’m wrong.

Perlmutter has stated he is not interested in being on the board. He entrusted his shares to Peltz and supports him and other Trian partners becoming members. Peltz has complained that theme park guests are bearing the burden of supporting most of the rest of the company, so it could be good to have some fresh perspective from outsiders on how best to budget and allocate resources equitably.

 

[rdevans_2000]

It’s been a long while since I have been on the boards, have not travelled to Disney for years. First Covid and then the absolute expense of going to Disney AND the level of difficulty trying to plan a trip for a family of 6.

I flirted with the idea about a year ago, and came to the theme parks forum to get a feel, and one of the top threads was ‘if I budget 1000 usd will that be enough for the genie fast passes, we are going for five days and a family of 4. Wow.

I read that Disney parks is still making a pile of money, but more money from fewer guests. I also had friends who travelled to Disney over the 4th of July, and they told me the morning of July 3, the crowds were low and they walked on to many rides. I don’t know if crowds are still thin at Disney, but if they are I am going to say Disney is in big trouble for long term survival.

What the bean counters forget, is that they are not creating a new massive generation of nostalgic Disney goers. They are shrinking the base of people who are going to think, ‘I can’t wait to take my kid to Disney and let them experience the magic of PeterPan’. They have priced disney out of the range of any average family (in my opinion of course) and the fan base is shrinking. Over time, this attrition is going to kill Disney.

Do you think the direction Disney is going is going to be sustainable in the long run? Maybe the bean counters just figure that is the next guys problem? I don’t know. But I think what they are doing is crippling a giant I use to love so much.

The simple fact is this: Disney is not pricing MOST people of the parks. The parks are still crowded year round and they are profitable. Somehow, even during economically slow times (maybe overuse of credit cards- the American way) guests are still coming. Disney faces a real challenge in this regard. You can’t have low prices and low crowds. Pick your poison.

Where Disney is seriously failing, I believe, is in cheapening the product while raising prices. I believe customer goodwill can skyrocket if Disney recommits to classic Imagineering, included benefits like bus transportation, fantastic and easy to use technology like massively improved Genie+, less dumbing down of theming (like in hotels), etc. People find ways to pay high prices without much complaining when the product/service is superb. That’s what’s currently lost Disney. And as a maga public conglomeration only a CEO with this vision can turn the ship. He/she must be able to please stockholders with financial quarterly success while still creating long term vision and financial commitment.

And, to your point, the studios need to pick up their game. They need their next renaissance. We all need/want great new stories that will live on for generations through the parks. That’s what our great grandkids will love when they visit. Please Disney, tell us great, original stories. And find a way to reinvigorate Marvel, Star Wars and Pixar. Do what made you great. We will pay you, a lot I suspect, for that!

 

[ChipnDale79]

And, to your point, the studios need to pick up their game. They need their next renaissance, and it won’t EVER come from political messaging, promoting agendas, and being more woke. We all need/want great new stories that will live on for generations in the parks. That’s what our great grandkids will love when they visit. The rinse and repeat, shortcutting, politically motivated material they are putting out right now will not endear generations to this company. Please Disney, tell us great, original stories about all kinds of people, races, histories, etc. Stop pandering and go back to doing what made you great. We will pay you, a lot I suspect, for that!

Quite frankly, they are not putting out a “woke” agenda. This is argument is tiring.

What movies have they put out that are woke? Disney simply needs to do better at story telling. Disney has a classic portfolio of IPs because they were able to tell a story better than almost anyone else. They have had time periods where they lacked, but were able to get it back on track. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they will be able to do that again.

We live in a society that if we see something that’s just a slight tick different than us, we start to scream that people are preaching to us and how dare they represent another portion of the population. Honestly, we just need to stop getting so angry about everything. if we dont like something, just move on.

 

[BrianL]

Quite frankly, they are not putting out a “woke” agenda. This is argument is tiring.

What movies have they put out that are woke? Disney simply needs to do better at story telling. Disney has a classic portfolio of IPs because they were able to tell a story better than almost anyone else. They have had time periods where they lacked, but were able to get it back on track. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they will be able to do that again.

We live in a society that if we se something that’s just a slight tick different than us, we start to scream that people are preaching to us and how dare they represent another portion of the population.

Yeah, I posed this question previously. Which movies specifically are preaching an agenda? None of them. Certianly they are being more inclusive these days, but as has been mentioned time and time again that is not the reason that any movie succeeds or fails. Maybe it's a tiny factor with a tiny group of people, but most movie goers simply don't care one way or the other. A movies success is based on marketing, timing, and general quality, though the last one counts for less than one might think.

 

[rdevans_2000]

Quite frankly, they are not putting out a “woke” agenda. This is argument is tiring.

What movies have they put out that are woke? Disney simply needs to do better at story telling. Disney has a classic portfolio of IPs because they were able to tell a story better than almost anyone else. They have had time periods where they lacked, but were able to get it back on track. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they will be able to do that again.

We live in a society that if we se something that’s just a slight tick different than us, we start to scream that people are preaching to us and how dare they represent another portion of the population.

Sorry. Sounds like I hit a nerve. Not intended. And I’m not “screaming”. I’m am not angry. Didn’t mean for it to come off that way. Just encouraging and won’t hopeful for the future.

I believe, like I think many fans believe, that Disney can make originals like Lion King, Finding Nemo and Beauty and the Beast again one day. And they can promote social justice, equality, anti racism themes, cultural appreciation, inclusivity, and so much more… exactly what our culture needs. But they need to be really good at their art if they want to inspire generations, and make money doing it.

 

[BrianL]

Sorry. Sounds like I hit a nerve. Not intended. And I’m not “screaming”. Didn’t mean for it to come off that way. Just encouraging. The “woke” word is likely overused, so I humbly retract it You’re right.

But I, and MANY Disney fans, do believe that Disney is focusing more heavily on agendas and that’s getting in the way of great, original story telling. Lots of remakes, like Snow White without ”dwarfs” instead of the next original Lion King or Finding Nemo.

Disney can promote social justice, equality, anti racism themes, cultural appreciation, and so much more… exactly what our culture needs. But they need to be really good at doing so in order to get all of us to unify behind those messages, and divide us further. We all need to do that. More love and understanding and less hate and criticism.

I think the issue is that people think that, let's call it promoting inclusivity, is getting in the way of the storytelling, when the fact is that bad (or even mediocre) stories can happen whether the creators are trying to do that or not. It's a non factor. They can tell great stories that promote inclusivity. They can tell lousy stories that promote inclusivity. They can tell great stories that DON'T promote inclusivity. They can tell lousy stories that don't promote inclusivity. One has nothing to do with the other. I would agree that Disney has been in a creative downturn a bit (though really, most of their movies have been fine - just not GREAT maybe), but I don't think it's because of the amount of inclusivity that they are or are not including.

 

[bryaalre]

Yeah, I posed this question previously. Which movies specifically are preaching an agenda? None of them. Certianly they are being more inclusive these days, but as has been mentioned time and time again that is not the reason that any movie succeeds or fails. Maybe it s atiny factor with a tiny group of people, but most movie goers simply don't care one way or the other. A movies success is based on marketing, timing, and general quality, though the last one counts for less than one might think.

I would also like to point out that quality does not seem to be the issue for Disney Animation or since the start of 2020. Disney animation released Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon and Strange World. The first two of those movies are over 90% on rotten tomatoes (both critics and viewers) but the had the misfortune of releasing during a bad time. Pixar has released Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Lightyear and Elemental. The first four of those movies are over 90% or a point off on rotten tomatoes for both critics and audience (except Turning Red which was review bombed). Lightyear was a miss for everyone involved but Elemental was a solid release.

While these movies are not light the box office on fire and more so lighting Disney's money on fire with the bombs of Strange World and Lightyear, we are at least getting high tier movies. This is completely different from Disney's 2000-2009 run which saw rotten movie after rotten movie released with only a few exceptions.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Where Disney is seriously failing, I believe, is in cheapening the product while raising prices. I believe customer goodwill can skyrocket if Disney recommits to classic Imagineering, included benefits like bus transportation, fantastic and easy to use technology like massively improved Genie+, less dumbing down of theming (like in hotels), etc. People find ways to pay high prices without much complaining when the product/service is superb. That’s what’s currently lost Disney. And as a maga public conglomeration only a CEO with this vision can turn the ship. He/she must be able to please stockholders with financial quarterly success while still creating long term vision and financial commitment.

I think this part is the key. From what I see on Facebook and other sites with Disney guests that aren't as....well, I should say "chronically online" as people on this forum, they are fine paying the higher prices if it means the experience is of high quality. People are now contemplating their next trips as they feel that the quality is slipping. In some aspects, I do think it's slipping (ex. ride maintenance for some rides is horrendous. They need a refurb like, yesterday). Many folks also feel that some of the new ride additions aren't at the standard Disney once adhered to. Not saying that's my opinion but it's one I've seen many people state.

 

[rdevans_2000]

I think the issue is that people think that, let's call it promoting inclusivity, is getting in the way of the storytelling, when the fact is that bad (or even mediocre) stories can happen whether the creators are trying to do that or not. It's a non factor. They can tell great stories that promote inclusivity. They can tell lousy stories that promote inclusivity. They can tell great stories that DON'T promote inclusivity. They can tell lousy stories that don't promote inclusivity. One has nothing to do with the other. I would agree that Disney has been in a creative downturn a bit (though really, most of their movies have been fine - just not GREAT maybe), but I don't think it's because of the amount of inclusivity that they are or are not including.

Very well said. Great story telling is great story telling. And it the core, that’s what Disney was in the beginning, has been when Disney is at its best, and hopefully will be in its future. Inclusivity absolutely must be part of that. The art of telling stories is as human as anything in our existence and doing it well brings us together.

 

[BrianL]

I would also like to point out that quality does not seem to be the issue for Disney Animation or since the start of 2020. Disney animation released Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon and Strange World. The first two of those movies are over 90% on rotten tomatoes (both critics and viewers) but the had the misfortune of releasing during a bad time. Pixar has released Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Lightyear and Elemental. The first four of those movies are over 90% or a point off on rotten tomatoes for both critics and audience (except Turning Red which was review bombed). Lightyear was a miss for everyone involved but Elemental was a solid release.

While these movies are not light the box office on fire and more so lighting Disney's money on fire with the bombs of Strange World and Lightyear, we are at least getting high tier movies. This is completely different from Disney's 2000-2009 run which saw rotten movie after rotten movie released with only a few exceptions.

It's true. The quality of the movies has been good, though maybe not as great as the "Second Renaissance" films. Movies are so tricky right now because it's hard to know what audiences will actually turn up for. The issue though is that expectations are astronomically high due to soaring budgets and they just can't pick that up in box-office alone.

For the record, I really liked Strange World, but that was always going to be a nich movie. It gives off Atlantis & Treasure Planet vibes, both notorious bombs, but they are a big hit with me! I think Wish will be more of a return to form though.

 

[DisFanDad]

The simple fact is this: Disney is not pricing MOST people of the parks. The parks are still crowded year round and they are profitable. Somehow, even during economically slow times (maybe overuse of credit cards- the American way) guests are still coming. Disney faces a real challenge in this regard. You can’t have low prices and low crowds. Pick your poison.

Where Disney is seriously failing, I believe, is in cheapening the product while raising prices. I believe customer goodwill can skyrocket if Disney recommits to classic Imagineering, included benefits like bus transportation, fantastic and easy to use technology like massively improved Genie+, less dumbing down of theming (like in hotels), etc. People find ways to pay high prices without much complaining when the product/service is superb. That’s what’s currently lost Disney. And as a maga public conglomeration only a CEO with this vision can turn the ship. He/she must be able to please stockholders with financial quarterly success while still creating long term vision and financial commitment.

And, to your point, the studios need to pick up their game. They need their next renaissance. We all need/want great new stories that will live on for generations through the parks. That’s what our great grandkids will love when they visit. Please Disney, tell us great, original stories. And find a way to reinvigorate Marvel, Star Wars and Pixar. Do what made you great. We will pay you, a lot I suspect, for that!

The. Parks. Aren't. Crowded. Seriously, you need to get over this - attendance was already 20% below pre-pandemic highs, and in the announcement today - it was lower again this year. Last year it was the lowest since 2012 (not including the pandemic obviously) and this yea, its lower (despite people swearing last year was low because APs weren't being sold and such). The parks might "appear" crowded, because disney is staffing at lower levels, running rides, stores, restaurants, etc at lower capacity levels, has still not brought back some shows / entertainment offerings (though almost all are back now) etc. But the crowds are the lowest they have been in over a decade. I mean is 16+ million guests still a lot, heck yes, of course.

Also - just for the record - disney was already priced out for MOST people - now it's even more so.

I do agree with your second sentiment though - disney is cheapening the product while increasing the price - this is going to end VERY badly for them, especially given that they are already eating into (I think) the intergenerational WDW / DL family effect. Every guest they miss these years (and they ahve missed MILLIONS) is another guest who wont be bringing their family to WDW or DL down the line.

 

[Minnie1222]

I'm sorry to say, but for every family not returning, there's another family delighted about one less group. People also stop going to the parks due to crowds, not expenses.

 

[DisFanDad]

I'm sorry to say, but for every family not returning, there's another family delighted about one less group. People also stop going to the parks due to crowds, not expenses.

Try really really hard. Crowds were already down 20% from pre-pandemic last year - this year they are down even more. Crowds last year were the lowest since 2012, this year, according to the investor call this week - are lower. But do tell me how for every family not returning there is another coming.

 

[Minnie1222]

Try really really hard. Crowds were already down 20% from pre-pandemic last year - this year they are down even more. Crowds last year were the lowest since 2012, this year, according to the investor call this week - are lower. But do tell me how for every family not returning there is another coming.

If you read my post again, you'd see that it actually says one family would be very happy if another one is not returning/coming.

Some people are fed up with crowds and would pay significantly more to keep the crowds low. As long as the company can make the same profit by serving less people they should continue to do so.

 

[tom1944]

If you read my post again, you'd see that it actually says one family would be very happy if another one is not returning/coming.

Some people are fed up with crowds and would pay significantly more to keep the crowds low. As long as the company can make the same profit by serving less people they should continue to do so.

That's us

 

[New Mouse]

If you read my post again, you'd see that it actually says one family would be very happy if another one is not returning/coming.

Some people are fed up with crowds and would pay significantly more to keep the crowds low. As long as the company can make the same profit by serving less people they should continue to do so.

They could make the same profit by charging 1 family a billion dollars and not allowing anyone else in.

 

[tom1944]

They could make the same profit by charging 1 family a billion dollars and not allowing anyone else in.

And if they had that customer why not?

 

[Miffy]

And if they had that customer why not?

OK. I'll answer that question.

Because if there were only that one family who could go to the parks, Disney would start losing money hand over fist, because everyone else who was left out would stop buying Disney merchandise, boycott Disney movies, end their D+ subscriptions, etc., etc., etc. Because they would be furious at Disney for doing this and Disney's reputation would be dead.

That's why.

 

[tom1944]

OK. I'll answer that question.

Because if there were only that one family who could go to the parks, Disney would start losing money hand over fist, because everyone else who was left out would stop buying Disney merchandise, boycott Disney movies, end their D+ subscriptions, etc., etc., etc. Because they would be furious at Disney for doing this and Disney's reputation would be dead.

That's why.

But you said they would cover the profit Disney makes so does it matter that no one else buys the products?

Now if you are saying one customer will pay a lot but not cover the entire profit that is a different comparison to what the previous posts have said.

Those posts have said crowds are down, but revenue is up. If only one person covers the same amount of revenue or total profit, why is that bad for Disney.