College Scholarships ? Debt Dumping? 5 year plan, oh my!

[barkley]

It's not going to change until they can't fill slots. They are filling all available slots, so students and parents are finding ways to pay.

that may not be very far in the future. for the most part college enrollment is decreasing. a handful of individual states have seen stagnant or slightly increasing enrollment but overall u.s. private and public college enrollment numbers have declined by 2 million since 2011. blame a stronger economy, blame overpriced tuition, blame an increasing awareness of both among high schoolers and their parents but colleges are experiencing unfilled slots so some are already looking to find out why. one of our public universities did a recent study to find out what would make them more appealing and the answer was-less funding to or total elimination of athletic programs so those monies could go to lowering attendance costs for the student body as a whole.

 

[tvguy]

that may not be very far in the future. for the most part college enrollment is decreasing. a handful of individual states have seen stagnant or slightly increasing enrollment but overall u.s. private and public college enrollment numbers have declined by 2 million since 2011. blame a stronger economy, blame overpriced tuition, blame an increasing awareness of both among high schoolers and their parents but colleges are experiencing unfilled slots so some are already looking to find out why. one of our public universities did a recent study to find out what would make them more appealing and the answer was-less funding to or total elimination of athletic programs so those monies could go to lowering attendance costs for the student body as a whole.

I'm surprised it hasn't hit colleges yet just because the baby boom is long over. Where I live they have been closing elementary, junior high and high schools for 20+ years due to declining enrollment. I was shocked when my daughter started at a California State University Campus in 2009 because she was part of the largest class ever enrolled in the CSU system, yet total high school enrollment was at the lowest number in 40 years. Seems to me a larger percentage of students are deciding to go to college than when when I graduated from High School in 1975.

 

[barkley]

I'm surprised it hasn't hit colleges yet just because the baby boom is long over. Where I live they have been closing elementary, junior high and high schools for 20+ years due to declining enrollment. I was shocked when my daughter started at a California State University Campus in 2009 because she was part of the largest class ever enrolled in the CSU system, yet total high school enrollment was at the lowest number in 40 years. Seems to me a larger percentage of students are deciding to go to college than when when I graduated from High School in 1975.

i think it's become the accepted standard among allot more people that college is a necessity vs. an option (not the norm when i graduated high school in '79). that drove the higher enrollment for years but now with the impact of massive student loan debt being felt by many during a point in history when it's easy to transmit information, experiences, regrets and opinions via social media we're seeing the approaching college age population reconsidering if the cost is worth the benefit of a degree.

we have a program in washington that allows students to take their last 2 years of high school classwork at college level and it's structured to mirror the college freshman/sophomore general ed. requirements at a college. original idea was-they knock those 2 years out, free of charge and go finish in 2, more often 3 years. thing is-those additional 2 or 3 years can still rack up massive debt so i'm hearing of more kids that opt into the program NOT going immediately into college. the economy is strong here, there's jobs for those that want them that start at $13.50 minimum wage. those kids start out thinking they'll save up for a few years and then go but then they find that they've gotten some raises and it's not unusual for even minimum wage employers to offer some tuition reimbursement they end up never doing the traditional college track-they do a class or 2 each quarter while plugging away at their job or just decide that the cost of college won't balance out against what they can get doing a job, getting a better job and progressing through that path. the emerging more popular option also offered to high school students up here is doing those 2 final years of high school in a hybrid trades program. they still do their regular classes but take 1/2 day sessions in a skilled trades program. the entry level pay for trade jobs can be significant and having already gotten 2 years of training in makes grads of these programs highly sought after. what was initialy seen as an option to fill in the gap for declining vocational ed programs in traditional high schools is now a highly sought and competitive entry option (lottery in some areas).

 

[tvguy]

the economy is strong here, there's jobs for those that want them that start at $13.50 minimum wage.

We made news here two years ago when Chick Fil A boosted training wage to $17, and post probationary pay to $20. Other fast food places followed suit. The economy is strong here, and finding people to fill jobs is tough. We had one position open for 3 years. We had qualified applicants, but their salary demands were more than corporate would allow us to pay.

 

[barkley]

We made news here two years ago when Chick Fil A boosted training wage to $17, and post probationary pay to $20. Other fast food places followed suit. The economy is strong here, and finding people to fill jobs is tough. We had one position open for 3 years. We had qualified applicants, but their salary demands were more than corporate would allow us to pay.

part of your area's issue is the cost of living which a smart prospective hire would take into consideration for salary demands in a market where they have choices. up here dd's paying the same amount for rent that i paid in your neck of the woods back in 1990. dollars goes allot farther here (and folks get to keep more of them due to no state income tax).

 

[pxidst119]

Many teachers at our high school are young. Many of them haven’t been out of school long themselves. My kids are always talking about their teachers running out of school to get to their next job because they need money and they have student loans. My senior and junior have really been picking up on this and have gotten really aware of the cost of college and not wanting debt like that. Some of my friends with younger kids think their kids will get loans like they did. It’s just not like it was then and their child can only borrow $5,500 on their own and the cost of college is also very different. That loan doesn’t really make a dent in a potentially $50,000 tuition.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Many teachers at our high school are young. Many of them haven’t been out of school long themselves. My kids are always talking about their teachers running out of school to get to their next job because they need money and they have student loans. My senior and junior have really been picking up on this and have gotten really aware of the cost of college and not wanting debt like that. Some of my friends with younger kids think their kids will get loans like they did. It’s just not like it was then and their child can only borrow $5,500 on their own and the cost of college is also very different. That loan doesn’t really make a dent in a potentially $50,000 tuition.

That's a good thing. Being realistic about future salary vs college cost is a good thing for teens to start to realize. Taking a tack of "what do I need for my career choice" not "what do I want for that choice" will help put the value back in the college equation. And should help to moderate costs.

My 1st 2 are absolutely insistent on no debt, and have no problem living at home for college to accomplish it. In fact, the 1st, who did a week long gifted camp at a college 5 hours away, actively prefers home to the college life, b/c she doesn't want to slum (which was the gifted camp experience - I still have never heard the end of bugs in the shower), but nor does she want the debt to live alone the way she wants at a school. She wants her own prepared food in her own kitchen with a quiet bedroom and a clean bathroom. So, since we live near multiple well-respected public schools with mandatory 2+2 deals (part of the draw to the area originally), we can relax that even if they all reject my kids, they have a way in to still get the majors they want and graduate with no debt (nor bankrupting me)...

Not sure about my last 2 yet (they are boys, not girls)...but we'll see what they want to do in life...and then how...

 

[pkelly6]

At the university I work for 2/1 is considered deadline for internal awards. Some may be awarded later, but most have this deadline. File your FAFSA. Have DD talk to her financial aid office about what awards might be offered.

Don't necessarily stay in your lane, so to speak. I have a DD not yet in high school learning an instrument (if she keeps at it) will offer more scholarship dollars and she doesn't have to major in the instrument/music.

One of the things keeping me at my job is the prospect of tuition waiver for my dependent. My school covers 50%. Does your DD's school offer that as a benefit to employees? Could you change jobs for the duration of her time in school?

Good luck!

 

[barkley]

One of the things keeping me at my job is the prospect of tuition waiver for my dependent. My school covers 50%. Does your DD's school offer that as a benefit to employees? Could you change jobs for the duration of her time in school?

i know someone who did just that as her oldest was nearing college age. took a significant pay cut but when she ran the numbers it afforded both her kids with 50% off tuition and 100% for herself and spouse. all 4 ended up with degrees so by the time everyone was done she had garnered some new job skills on top of her own degree so she was in a more marketable position than when she started out.

 

[mjkacmom]

that may not be very far in the future. for the most part college enrollment is decreasing. a handful of individual states have seen stagnant or slightly increasing enrollment but overall u.s. private and public college enrollment numbers have declined by 2 million since 2011. blame a stronger economy, blame overpriced tuition, blame an increasing awareness of both among high schoolers and their parents but colleges are experiencing unfilled slots so some are already looking to find out why. one of our public universities did a recent study to find out what would make them more appealing and the answer was-less funding to or total elimination of athletic programs so those monies could go to lowering attendance costs for the student body as a whole.

Well, that depends, my kids’ colleges keep having increases in enrollment. Dd18 is in a forced triple, like most rooms in dorms with a/c, and the college says all sophomores will be guaranteed housing, but not the forms they chose, so explore off campus options (close off campus apartments are always being built). More jobs today require at least a 4 year degree, it’s the new HD diploma.

 

[barkley]

More jobs today require at least a 4 year degree, it’s the new HD diploma.

this is the justification some of the districts around us are using to institute mandatory/no opt out of college prep only curriculum. this has just started within the past couple of years and i'm interested to see if their graduation rates decline. i've known many kids who stuck with the traditional curriculum and graduated but if they had been forced to try to do what tends to equate to the college level general ed classes they would have dropped out and hopefully at least gotten their ged or (in some states) their high school equivalency certification.

i know college has become the new norm for many but the reality is-some people have no interest in it, some are not cut out for it, and right now there are ones aging up that have heard the horror stories of student loan debt and are not willing to take it on or let their parents go without/shortchange their retirement.

 

[tvguy]

this is the justification some of the districts around us are using to institute mandatory/no opt out of college prep only curriculum. this has just started within the past couple of years and i'm interested to see if their graduation rates decline. i've known many kids who stuck with the traditional curriculum and graduated but if they had been forced to try to do what tends to equate to the college level general ed classes they would have dropped out and hopefully at least gotten their ged or (in some states) their high school equivalency certification.

i know college has become the new norm for many but the reality is-some people have no interest in it, some are not cut out for it, and right now there are ones aging up that have heard the horror stories of student loan debt and are not willing to take it on or let their parents go without/shortchange their retirement.

Luckily here, the schools have an open mind to the trades. As one guidance counselor noted, a first year sheet metal worker can make $125,000 a year, double what a first year teacher makes.

 

[barkley]

Luckily here, the schools have an open mind to the trades. As one guidance counselor noted, a first year sheet metal worker can make $125,000 a year, double what a first year teacher makes.

we've got a great vocational ed school here that kids can do half day 2 year programs at in their jr/sr years but with changing their home high school curriculum to strictly college prep i would suspect that it will be much more difficult to do that program w/ the increased demands.

 

[MrsPete]

But some kids don’t want to travel across the country for college, just like some want to commute ...

Yeah, when my students start talking about far-away schools, I always recommend that they apply to at least one close-to-home school. Why?

- Because sometimes the financial aid and scholarships don't fall out as hoped, and it's good to have an affordable option in the bag.
- Loads of high school students -- especially girls -- tend to have a (usually short-lived) crisis in May when they decide they cannot possibly go away /aren't ready for college /are terrified that their carefully-laid plans are actually coming to fruition. Soon.
- I do have one friend whose son -- literally the week they were packing up to take him to college for his freshman year -- said, "Nope, I am not going. Not going." He was admitted to the school of his choice, etc., etc., etc., but he freaked out at the last minute. He ended up going to community college for a while, and it was a good choice for him, but they had a tough time for a while!

Of course not, but if you are saying "there aren't any affordable options" and you are only considering where they WANT to go

Well said. Affordable options do exist, but they don't always involve the typical path of going away /living in a dorm /attending full time at the school of your choice.

I'm surprised it hasn't hit colleges yet just because the baby boom is long over. Where I live they have been closing elementary, junior high and high schools for 20+ years due to declining enrollment.

Oh, all those people came South. We are building new schools left and right here. We can't find enough teachers.

More jobs today require at least a 4 year degree, it’s the new HD diploma.

I know people say that, but college graduates are still in the minority. I looked up a number -- I hope it's truthful:

Younger Americans are more likely to have attained a four-year degree than older groups. Among Americans between the ages of 25 to 34, 37 percent have at least a bachelor’s degree. Among those 55 and older, just under 30 percent have a four-year degree.

That leaves the majority of Americans without a college degree.

Luckily here, the schools have an open mind to the trades. As one guidance counselor noted, a first year sheet metal worker can make $125,000 a year, double what a first year teacher makes.

That's the kind of fact that you think would change people's minds about trades! But at our recent college and career fair, the HVAC people were talking about paid internships ... and so many kids wouldn't even talk to them. So much negativity about trades.

 

[crisi]

Schools with declining enrollments will not offer more money - it isn't there for them to offer except in a very few cases of extraordinarily well endowed schools. They will just close because they are going broke. Don't look to the colleges themselves to fix this - they can't afford to educate your kid for free any more than you can pay a full tuition out of pocket for them. They have been just closing. That moves students to other colleges. My youngest is also at a school where each of the last five class sizes has been bigger than the last - its an "affordable" private East Coast college - expensive, but less expensive than the schools around it with a good reputation and decent endowment.

The best hope is to make college educations free for everyone, but that is likely to only cover government schools - and probably just tuition. UMass could be free tuition - you'll still pay through the nose for Tufts.